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Of Dogs and Babies.
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Yuli
Retired
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
1660
Posted : Dec 14, 2003 18:25
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mr. E, I understand u didn't even bother to read thru my post, otherwise u would find out that we agree on many things there since I declared I wouldnt bring neither my kid nor my dog to a party in most of the scenarios..
BANNING something is because it is bad / making damage / crooked.. I can't see what is bad in animals and children, but probably u can..
God bless my parents liked children and dogs.. If they wouldnt I would be miserable little sob
Have a gday mr. E
  A man with a "master plan" is often a woman |
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nobody_3
Inactive User
Started Topics :
13
Posts :
1177
Posted : Dec 14, 2003 18:32
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Oh I did indeed read through your post mr. Y
Dont assume people dont read what you write just because they dont agree to all you're saying.
And I do agree with some of the things you say. Such as not bringing kids under the age of 3 (but after 3 is also wrong imo) and the issue about drugs.
But I still do not agree with all you said and I am pretty sure I "highlighted that" 
Well maybe the word ban is wrong since you misunderstood my use of the word.. But let it be.
Of course dogs or kids aren't bad. I never said that and you know it mr.Y
And as as side note. I have lived with dogs almost all my life and also had cats and I love children.. Just not in parties! |
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Zombi
IsraTrance Senior Member
Started Topics :
375
Posts :
5032
Posted : Dec 14, 2003 18:33
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On 2003-12-14 18:16, Elysium Project wrote:
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On 2003-12-14 18:13, Zombi wrote:
dunno, when we bring kids they sleep great at tent at night time, they never come infront of speakers so no damage for their ears and they have great great time.. and no, their parents dont get high when they bring their kids, are they so stupid ???
come on, its a picnic, also for me.. and im a kid myself also...
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Can you honestly say that none of these parents get high or take drugs? I am not convinced
And I have seen kids standing in front of speakers while their parents did nothing to get them away from the speakers.
I know your a kid Zombi and thats cool 
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yes, i can honestly say that my friends that bring kids never gets high during picnic, i can honestly say they care them very very much (and in case we have girls with us they take care of kids also, they like play mamas ) as u c i dont talk theoretical but real.
ok, ok, where is my toys now ??:)
Believe your soul ! |
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nobody_3
Inactive User
Started Topics :
13
Posts :
1177
Posted : Dec 14, 2003 18:37
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I was not thinking about your friends in particular Zombi. It's great if they are responsible parents as all parents should be. But unfortinently not all parents are like your friends. And should organisers say yes to some parents and no to other parents? I am sure it would be better not to bring them at all. See mr. Y I did not use the word ban |
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nova
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
16
Posts :
556
Posted : Dec 14, 2003 18:41
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u know... maybe its a little bit offtopic but for your information... YES! there are ppl who do not take drugs in parties...
parents who take drugs infront of their children... why not with their children?
(E.P... do you have kids?)
dont give trance parties a consept of drugs parties..
yes, there are drugs im not naive but there are lots of other beautifull things in it.
not once i saw parents comming with their kids early in the morning with a tent behind the speakers... eating humus or dancing around...
i dont see any problem with that... and its not like the kids expose to loud music 24/7.... even a trance party has it chill-out zone.
i never saw a parent getting high and leave his kid to hang around...
just flow baby... just flow... |
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nobody_3
Inactive User
Started Topics :
13
Posts :
1177
Posted : Dec 14, 2003 18:46
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Well even in Israel (to Zombi) I saw parents with children smoking weed with their friends in front of their kids.... But I am sure they also do that at home. And I have seen numerous children at parties around the world running around alone in the night and I can assure you that some of their parents DID do drugs at the same time. Is that ok?
No I dont have kids. I assume I still have the right to have an opinion even if I dont have kids?
I am aware of that there are many other beautiful things about parties but let's not kid ourselves here. There are lot's of drug use and abuse at almost every party going on. And again I dont think it's such a healthy enviroment for kids to be next to a lot of people on drugs.
And even at chill-out zones the music is too loud for small childrens sensetive ears ! |
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Zombi
IsraTrance Senior Member
Started Topics :
375
Posts :
5032
Posted : Dec 14, 2003 18:51
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yes u right.
Believe your soul ! |
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shahar
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
155
Posts :
2035
Posted : Dec 14, 2003 19:11
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Kristian, there are two sides to rules- you can say that dogs must be banned because they bother certain people, but what about the people you're banning spending good time with their dogs? Are their feeling being hurt count as well? And what about the dogs you're banning from having a good time?
For me a trance party is a place with one rule- respect the other- that's why I was so drawn to this culture to begin with- these where the parties I first encountered and these are the kind of parties I try to go to when I go to a party (no so easy these day, I must say). When people in the party carry that rule in mind there aren't usually any problem, no matter if dogs&kids are present or not. People shed their fears and things generally work well.
There are almost always dogs in the parties I go to and I never saw any problem with them.
Our dog loves to come to parties- she's having the time of her life, spending a night in nature, exploring all around, running around and playing with other dogs, playing with people, getting a lot of attention, hugs and patting, and generally having an excellent time.
My totally married+2kids+hi-tech job+4roomapartment friends, came a couple of times to a party- they're not trance people, never took drugs and generally quite square and proud of it. They came in the morning for a picnic, had the time of their life, as did their son. My friend was especially happy as all the beautiful girls came to talk to him and his baby son- his wife was a bit reluctant to come after that, though
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"Be the change you want to see in the world!"
M.K. Gandhi
"There is only one corner of the universe you can be certain of improving, and that's your own self."
Aldous Huxley
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shahar
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
155
Posts :
2035
Posted : Dec 14, 2003 19:13
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Quote:
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On 2003-12-14 12:35, GuyShanti wrote:
anyway I belive that when u expose children to as many and as diverse range of situations they grow up to be more interesting and open minded ppl
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Also they become more able to deal with the world, aren't afraid of every little thing and then when they become parents they usually aren't over-protective of their own children- behaviour with children is hereditary and hard to shake.
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"Be the change you want to see in the world!"
M.K. Gandhi
"There is only one corner of the universe you can be certain of improving, and that's your own self."
Aldous Huxley
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shahar
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
155
Posts :
2035
Posted : Dec 14, 2003 19:16
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Quote:
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On 2003-12-14 12:35, GuyShanti wrote:
about dogs - as long as the dont try to eat the shakhta they can do whateverthefuck they want. they can bark and houl all night and day long for all I care - u cant hear them over the volume of the music and anyway our ears are fucked cuz our parents took us to tramce parties since the age of 3....
G
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WHAT? DID YOU SAY SOMETHING GUY? I THINK I SAW YOUR LIPS MOVE?
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"Be the change you want to see in the world!"
M.K. Gandhi
"There is only one corner of the universe you can be certain of improving, and that's your own self."
Aldous Huxley
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shahar
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
155
Posts :
2035
Posted : Dec 14, 2003 19:17
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Quote:
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On 2003-12-14 18:46, Elysium Project wrote:
Well even in Israel (to Zombi) I saw parents with children smoking weed with their friends in front of their kids.... But I am sure they also do that at home.
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At least they're no hypocrite with their children and lie and hide things from them. A much better approach, I believe.
If you believe what you're doing is wrong, don't do it- don't add by lying to others on top of it!
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"Be the change you want to see in the world!"
M.K. Gandhi
"There is only one corner of the universe you can be certain of improving, and that's your own self."
Aldous Huxley
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nobody_3
Inactive User
Started Topics :
13
Posts :
1177
Posted : Dec 14, 2003 19:22
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Quote:
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On 2003-12-14 19:11, shahar wrote:
Kristian, there are two sides to rules- you can say that dogs must be banned because they bother certain people, but what about the people you're banning spending good time with their dogs? Are their feeling being hurt count as well? And what about the dogs you're banning from having a good time?
For me a trance party is a place with one rule- respect the other- that's why I was so drawn to this culture to begin with- these where the parties I first encountered and these are the kind of parties I try to go to when I go to a party (no so easy these day, I must say). When people in the party carry that rule in mind there aren't usually any problem, no matter if dogs&kids are present or not. People shed their fears and things generally work well.
There are almost always dogs in the parties I go to and I never saw any problem with them.
Our dog loves to come to parties- she's having the time of her life, spending a night in nature, exploring all around, running around and playing with other dogs, playing with people, getting a lot of attention, hugs and patting, and generally having an excellent time.
My totally married+2kids+hi-tech job+4roomapartment friends, came a couple of times to a party- they're not trance people, never took drugs and generally quite square and proud of it. They came in the morning for a picnic, had the time of their life, as did their son. My friend was especially happy as all the beautiful girls came to talk to him and his baby son- his wife was a bit reluctant to come after that, though
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Hi mate
I am sure those who bring their dogs have plenty of chances to have a good time with their dogs when they dont go to parties.
You ask about their feelings or the dogs feling.
In this situation I dont see their feelings as the essential issue. They are the ones bringing the dogs and should be the ones to consider other people's feelings... Not the other way around.... and I am pretty sure the dogs couldn't care less if they are at a party or not
I am totally with you about non-rules parties and it's also one of the things that made me love this scene in the first place.... but I still do not see the point in bringing dogs... And they DO annoy people. I have heard many people being quite angry because some dogs disturbed them on teh dancefloor or because they had a shit on the dancefloor ect ect..
About children....well it's a matter of opinion of course. But there are facts that says that children can be at risk at parties if they are exposed to loud music... And it's a fact that the music is loud
I can of course say it's ok to bring children in the morning when they have had their sleep as a kind of picknic and they sit away from the music. But unfortinently many parents also bring their kids at night and do not care if the kids run around alone. Thats my point
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shahar
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
155
Posts :
2035
Posted : Dec 14, 2003 19:29
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You ask about their feelings or the dogs feling.
In this situation I dont see their feelings as the essential issue. They are the ones bringing the dogs and should be the ones to consider other people's feelings... Not the other way around.... and I am pretty sure the dogs couldn't care less if they are at a party or not
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Why not- what is the different in right of people to be without dogs around them cause they don't like them and with dogs around them if they do like them?
Why one carries more weight then the other?
And as I told you our dog cares a lot- she's very miserable if she stays home all weekend alone, and very happy if she comes to the party with us.
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"Be the change you want to see in the world!"
M.K. Gandhi
"There is only one corner of the universe you can be certain of improving, and that's your own self."
Aldous Huxley
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nobody_3
Inactive User
Started Topics :
13
Posts :
1177
Posted : Dec 14, 2003 19:35
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I see it as exactly the same as someone lighting a cigarette without asking first (even thought there's a difference there...it's also dangerious.... well you could also get bitten by a dog) or someone inviting his/her friends over to your house without your permission.
You choosed to get a dog so it's your responsability to make sure that the dog is not home alone and miserable. What would you do if someone came to you at a party and asked you to get the dog out of there because he or she is afraid of dogs, are annoy of it's presence or becasue he or she is allergic to dogs?
The point is that you havent asked any of the people that also bought a ticket if it's ok with them that you bring your dog.... I hope you see my point.... I dont know a better way to explain it
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-Abatwa-
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
42
Posts :
1087
Posted : Dec 14, 2003 20:22
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these events happen in nature and you dont have the right to exclude a species type, as humans are not above nature. there can be dogs as well as many other animals. you are not the one who can decide on who's coming. if you want privacy, party at home.
`Bottomless wonders spring from simple rules, which are repeated without end` Mandelbrot |
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