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No 2 synths were created equal
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Nov 4, 2014 00:22
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dunno if it s true, but i heard the z1 sound brighter with not as much caractere as the prophecy, could be if both dont share the same da converter or dunno ... |
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PoM
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Posted : Nov 4, 2014 00:40
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Quote:
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On 2014-11-03 19:52, woodster77 wrote:
amen to that bro
tbh...I find most bass lines stagnant. all really sound the same which is a shame//....
I know theres limits due to speed of track and mix profiles ...but fuck me its like watching kids play football....everybodies running after the ball
I don't mean to offend but its just how I feel
whatever happened to the musical exploration of texture and frequency
get a mike and go out and bang shit about
youd be surprised what you come up with
rather than spend fucking hours trying to shoehorn synths into a mix
sorry once again if this is a bit out of order ...but when theres no exploration theres little inspiration.
I gave up trying to write psy....why... well beause I wasn't really enjoying the journey
im, not trying to push my point on anyone by any means . but surely making music should be for the LOVE and JOY of doing it,,,,not for the sake of getting it right
get it wrong.....please. release your efforts and let them run free
like Bruce Lee said......"don't look at the finger....or you will miss ALL the heavenly glory"....
ok right I said it.... NOW DO YOUR WORST....lol
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cause popular stuff is dancefloor material , music it dont mattter if it blast the dancefloor  you will have to find a bassline that work better than a kbbb , will be hard to please the night/dawn crowd. but i understand totaly what you re saying / feeling, have been there and maybe still i am.. lot of the music is boring to listen at home except maybe if you are in trance with what ever thing u did take or done , but on the dancefloor it s a other story if the dj is good |
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woodster77
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Nov 4, 2014 01:22
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But not every tunes meant to be played that way...
You get hter...my point is that everyone makes it hard for themself and spend a long time getting something theye chase.
It should be a natural organic developement which gives charectar and style thats unique,j
For me starting off with the intention of something thats gonna be played and watch people react to the tune is a thing of pure ego and will fuck with your inspiration. Cos it perculate into your imagination and pull you away from the main point pf what any form of music is.....ie a celebration of the life within you and around you. (Thats the way i see it..im not telling you what to think)
Im into psy for the textures and evolution of an idea into something beyond where it started. A lot of thd time i dont eben use kicks. I know....not dance, but crafted and
Fucking psychodelic
But i see this as a bag of tricks i can dive into when i do a tune wih a beat.
Insuppose diffeerent point of view ,, different approach °°°ACTS 4:12°°°° |
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E-KL!PSE
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Nov 4, 2014 06:03
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frisbeehead
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Nov 4, 2014 13:11
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yeah, it can happen and it does happen...
btw, I started a thread (some time ago) about lack of new ideas on the Bass department, that didn't go so well to... but nothing is preventing anyone from doing whatever it is that pleases them. by all means, no one's forced to fit inside a given genre's formulas. if someone produces something fresh and manages to get an audience, then please, by all means, just go ahead and do it! and keep an open mind and spirit, remember to enjoy what you're doing - that's the only way you'll ever inject some positive attitude in your music, and the public is known for noticing it and reacting positively to it! So just give it a shot! |
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frisbeehead
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Nov 4, 2014 13:22
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back on topic: I think there's no real gain in comparing synths the way it's done here. It is my strong belief that you can get decent sounding patches out of any of those on the list - depending on HOW you PROGRAM them and how you post process them. I fail to see how this simple opinion could be regarded as being arrogant or whatever...
some of them, like ESM and the TAL stuff that's based on analogue gear have to be sampled in order to get that steady sounding Bass line, 'cause they've got no phase reset. all of this has been discussed several times over. it's really a matter of being practical and realising it comes down to anyone's personal choices and taste, and using whatever you feel good about to get the results you want - whatever the route you choose to take!
Going to say it again: typical trance bass line is a fairly simple patch. Feel like many people obsess over the little details where it's just a matter of making it fit and complement a track. The source needs to be good, yes, but it doesn't take any special magic to get a good plucky sawtooth bass going. It doesn't take picking one out of a million possible instruments out there and name it the golden one... Pick one you feel good about and get it done, seriously! It's just bass, no? |
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TimeTraveller
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Nov 4, 2014 13:41
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^+1
To compare (these) synths it would be necesseary to have all the settings identical. Filters, Envelopes etc. No comps, eqs nothing, as well nothing on the master. Only then it is interesting to compare imo. And certainly sampling is a must do when retrigger is not on board as in many of them. It sounds like it's not like this.
https://soundcloud.com/shivagarden |
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ThiagoNAKA
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Posted : Nov 5, 2014 21:23
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Come on dudes.
If its all about taste, so this kind of experiment is very useful imo.
Even with some differences about tweaking, this kind of test can give u an example of how a "simple saw bassline" can sound with various machines.
And there´s no thing like identical settings. Each plug have their own "digital curves responses". So there´s no point, for me, trying to replicate the same settings.
The most important is hearing something u like and try to fix your bassline to that. it can be the plug, the settings, the kick.... The more examples the better.
LOADING... |
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frisbeehead
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Nov 5, 2014 23:51
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If by "digital curve response" you mean the actual curvature of the envelopes, then it's true - even though some of these allow you to change this curvature to your liking; and others still allow you to do it by means of recursive modulation.
An example: set filter envelope to modulate filter envelope's decay. Positive self modulation always causes convexity, negative amounts always causes concavity.
But that's not all that changes with an instrument: it's the oscillator's waveform itself, the filter, so forth and so on.
That's what makes it special, having different things. Nothing wrong with trying to do the same thing with different tools. The ONLY point we're making here is that there's no single patch that could be eligible as a "good example" of how a given instrument sounds, and thus this defeats the entire purpose of this kind of tests. You're only listening to how a given person has programmed different instruments and that's all. The result has more to do with the person who did the patches then the instrument's intrinsic characteristics. So how's anyone else supposed to get even a faint idea of how they really sound and which among these is better suited for their own bass (or just about anything else) endeavours?
I rest my case... Cheers |
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ansolas
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Posted : Nov 6, 2014 10:29
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frisbeehead
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Nov 6, 2014 10:59
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Quote:
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On 2014-11-06 10:29, ansolas wrote:
Ok let me be the first:
Thank you "E-KL!PSE" for taking time to create this comparison and sharing the results with us.
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Yes, he took the time to create this and he posted it on a public forum so as to be commented on, no? And that's really ALL I've done here. |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Nov 11, 2014 17:09
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from my test recently, i would say diva and noise maker (you might have to flip the pahse as it s a inverted saw on this one and it sound more agressive ) are the one to beat if you want a bass like trilian or omnishpere, basically somethign that sound close to analog, plenty of other soft are nice, but to me their saw dont do me anyhting..it s good for leads sure with fx ect, but for bassline i need to enjoy the saw or i will have to work on the sound to make me enjoy it , it s not as easy as picking one i like to start with..so it s all about personal taste in the end and once processed it make even less difference anyway.
one tip with diva, even in the same pannel (for example the moog )each osc don t sound the same, so pick the one you like best i compared to a moog bass , diva still sound slighty more digital but it s very close to the point it don't matter..it s maybe even better than trilian or omni cause of the modelled filters .(but these have the sample starting point that can be very usefull with the envelop,i noticed some synth have this too..they will not click and make a horrible transients but still sound good what ever phase the osc retriger ) |
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frisbeehead
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Nov 12, 2014 11:32
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when we refer to some plug-in oscillator as sounding analogue, usually what's under the hood is two things: one of them is random phase start (which is the equivalent to free run) and a slight pitch drift.
then as tech evolved, some other things are involved to: one of them is some kind of over sampling procedure to avoid aliasing; another is the introduction of zero feedback delay filters (like with Diva); other forms of non linearity brought about by modelling other hardware components.
it's funny that you mention two synths which have this kind of approach: tal's noisemaker, despite being a free product, is a very good sounding instrument with a very good sounding ZFD filter included on it.
I think the oscillators themselves are not the issue here, as we probably want to stay away from the "analogue" features if looking for the "rock solid" bass line. By analysing the waveforms with an oscilloscope, we can tell that despite the little usual differences, nothing to special is going on here.
What I think sets this instruments apart, sound wise, is the filters. They do sound a LOT better then previous tech would.  |
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PoM
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Posted : Nov 12, 2014 12:49
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drift can really make thing sound more analog but there i was talking more about artifacts/aliasing, usually analog sound very clean, i think even diva is not as clean and can alias.
it s seems comon on digital sawtooth to have unharmonic peaks going back even in the low, i didin t did much test so takes this with grain of salt but i think it s that my ears don t like and why some analog saw sound more "pure" to me but it can be very close and it may not matter much in the end with processing.
filters make a big part..and all the audio stage of the synth that impart the sound caractere, not just osc or filters. on many analog with have no idea how the osc sound as we hear the waveform at the output of the synth, amp and many other factors can probably affect the sound.
but in digital osc matter more as there is aliasing , and somethimes i have the feeling that it s the way they try minimize aliasing that make things sound even more less natural..well dunno it s complicated topic and have no idea about all this. |
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PoM
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Posted : Nov 12, 2014 13:21
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so the osc may be the issu , take zebra for example, a dry saw with no filter nothing i really don t like the sound it hurt my ears it dont sound natural.... ( i m not saying it s bad synth it s just about the caractere that may be more or less suited for different type of sound )
when i sampled my xs to use in kontakt, it was not sounding as good with kontakt filter.. both matter a lot i think.to have clean oscillators but that are also great sounding, and good filters too |
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