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MIND CONTROL!!! Talamasca new label !!!
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sir eel
Waterjuice
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
62
Posted : Apr 27, 2004 06:30
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well, seems the added value to purchasing a cd is a good idea, but printing ANYTHING extra is a bad idea, costs a fortune and uses trees....
granted it's expensive to make the cd's but the profit margin is decent.
why isn't it doing better? because it's a small scene all in all (compared to say pop or hip-hop). Is it a cash cow market? no frickin way....films and hip-hop is a much better way top make money! What's the MOST views of a post on here? 3000? views? i'm let's be realistic. The bigger sellers are usually something that appeals to 'non-trance' people as well...or releases that hit at just the right time when the genre is more popular in the mainstream
\
but is it amazing and cool? yes.....not always easy to make money off magic, but it can be done.
maybe the scene needs more theatrics on stage?! I mean, apple-powerbooks and nordleads are cool and pasty artists have a presence because they made the tunes and all, but man talk about an unexplored marketing avenue!
mind-control - group hypnosis party? drugless mind-controlled tripping experience? (um, the cia knows ALL about that)....talamasca and the spiders from mars? a lil makeup perhaps? (ya right...)
who's up for it? i'm serious! (we performed on saturday with a singer (irina) doing some firedancing! let me tell ya, it had an effect!)
anyways, i'm wandering here....and jokin around a bit....
anyone who wants to make money on their site selling tunes can do so VERY easily with
http://www.bitpass.com/
buy credits with a paypal account and shop away!! (it's the promotion thats a bitch...)
elportal looks cool, love that php-nuke stuff....could be a bit more psychedelic in my dumb opinion (looks a bit like a military video gaming site). New paradigms are coming together!
people just need to remember that music makes their life better and like a good bottle of wine or a sack of weed (um, 5 cds?!!!?!?!, without a hesitation), without it, life is just
WAY TO BORING. now, if you can get all those people who have never even heard of 'trance music' to start buying up cd's then things might start looking hot.
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limbic
Limbic
Started Topics :
27
Posts :
282
Posted : Apr 28, 2004 01:19
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i have question to cedric od any other label owner who talked here
where have u sellimg nore copies...real stores or on net stores
???
its kinda important to keep this thread point continue and benefit from it alot i think |
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nahimoff
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
67
Posts :
469
Posted : Apr 28, 2004 03:18
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so heres another label´s thoughts...
First of all Cedric and mael GOOD luck we know each other long time now (remember good karma boat trip?), and i really wish you the best success with your new project im sure it will be killer one!!
So, let me give you Labels/artists/non industry/cd buyers/downloader/whoever is interested in this topic some more opinions and thoughts about this subject.
For us, Domo records, as a progressive label, it is even much harder to sell big quantities than the average full-on labels, let alone big full on labels like 3d vision, hommega etc., so we need to find different and more inventive ways to reach other audience.
Attention, is all it takes ppl, attention.
For example, we printed and spread 5000 big stickers and 3000 small ones and spread them around in every shop and party we make or even just dj, we got replies from new and unknown artists who got the sticker on the street and contacted us because of that. All these stickers cost us less than 500 euros to make but the impact is very big!!
We are printing special flyers for our releases 5000 flyers cost 150 euro (big size hard flyer).
We are now in the process of printing label t-shirts. i dont know the cost price right now but i know for sure that we will hope not to sell these shirts for higher price than 10 euro.
Its not really big money to invest if you look at the long term affect it has on the normal people. And kristian it DOES have an affect on ppl when they recieve an extra sticker or gimmick !! i know it does to me as a customer.
When we make launch parties to a new cd we usually sell our new cd for as cheep as 4.5-5 euros to the ppl coming, for appreciation.
Other options of expanding sales is to join the growing comunity of upload website starting to operate soon, like el portal, trackidown.com, emepe3.com,and jetgroove.com . We will put our already released music and probably some bonus unreleased tracks to some of these website, simply because it doesnt really matter how many ppl will purchase tracks online, cause anything is better than today´s conditions, so we need to look for any option to make a bit more money to cover the extra expences and attention we give to the people.
At the moment it is a closed circle situation where the labels ask the ppl to buy their stuff otherwise they could´nt make more releases, and the customers ask the labels to invest more in them so that they will buy the products, its quite a no way end.
Mp3 free downloading is indeed here to stay, regular record shops will not fade away, and to answer your question limbic, we sold more to normal shops and end customers than in online shops.
Production cost differs from cd to cd and from label to label and is usually a result of expectations and possibilities of the label, but normally it should vary between 2-5 euros per cd.
To sum things up: the problem does not lie in the mp3 mafia or the prices or anything,
We, the industry, is now in the middle of re-estimating its size, borders and possibilities, the rules of the game has changed and the ones who figure it out the fastest are the ones who will survive in the end.
Im sure cedric and mael know what they´re doing and its very improtant that this subject was raised in this positive way other than a normal mp3 mafia thread in the last 2 years.
BIG THUMBS UP and may we all be happier in the near future
NADI
 DJ NADI EarPeaks music Group (Domo/Tupan/Gat music)
www.domorecords.com info@domorecords.com
www.tupan-records.com www.earpeaks.com |
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ChoBo
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
50
Posts :
536
Posted : Apr 28, 2004 13:36
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Hi Nahim, i am glad that simple things like stickers did help your label  . I , as a customer knows that it does make a big impact! And I am happy to know that a similar view is shared let alone a response  At least a more positive response is shared on what can be done instead of some ppl just whining away. All the best Nahim!
Cya 
Btw, i got one of your blue sticker  Credits to trance-shop (tokyokid) who gave me one. |
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DETOX
IsraTrance Senior Member
Started Topics :
296
Posts :
6194
Posted : Apr 28, 2004 16:09
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Guys you are all missing a great point here.
Even if an original cd costed lets say 5 euros in the market then the sales wouldnt get bigger than 25%.
The problem is not with the artists or the labels or the distributors (at least not the main problem).
The problem is within the attitude and the character of the people that download music.
Have you even speak with one of these guys?Well i have speak with more than 100 of them and you want to know what the results where?
Only 15-20 of them claimed that they dont buy original music because of the high prices.
The rest 80 people said that 'We are not going to give artists and labels our money,they make a lot of money already from parties and the current sales' also they said 'Music should be free and labels and distributors make money upon music which for us is unnaceptable,free music for the people and bla bla','Only stupid people buy original music when you can get your music for free through the internet','Artists make a name for themself from the tracks around the net that people download so then they get booked and get big money from parties so internet does good for the artists and also it does good for us since we get free music,labels are useless'.
This is the reality people,how can you persuade these 80 people out of 100 when they have opinions like these?
How can you persuade someone to buy music when he claims that labels and distributors are useless?
I tried to explain to them how the industry works but guess what,i just wasted my time.
The problem lies within stupid human nature and not within artists and labels.....
Toodaloo Motherfuckers!!!!! |
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yossi
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
72
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1641
Posted : Apr 28, 2004 18:36
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finaly some1 said it!
if you want to be rich, u`ve got to be a bitch! |
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Mark(Dalmat)
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
47
Posts :
742
Posted : Apr 28, 2004 19:35
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well my opinion is like tht this days many albums hv 9 tracks and 2-3 of are good or many trax in compliations are released before and not just once...so i think neeed think about it to!
good luck to all
boooom! |
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limbic
Limbic
Started Topics :
27
Posts :
282
Posted : Apr 29, 2004 00:30
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well let me tell u about TIKAL he is signed at neurobiotics records well his cd is not selling in israel unless the net i wouldnt know about him but because of it (the net) i could manage knowing him and help him to promote himself in israel through radio show i arranged to record with him so u cannot say the net dont any usefull things but the question is where is the line
cause after all booking is the real money anit it???? |
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nahimoff
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
67
Posts :
469
Posted : Apr 29, 2004 05:39
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limbic the bookings are usually the only money we can call profit, cause from cd selling you can maybe finance your next releases but not to live from it.
Chobo, first of all my name is nadi and not nahim, second as crazy as it seems, i am the one responsible for your joy Personally!!
I packed your cd package from trance-shop, and thats the way every package goes out!!
so you can witness that there are at least some distributors who try to promote their products...
All in all I must agrre also with mike detox here this is the real situation, but for those people we already lost the war, they are not the ones that we see our help coming from.
We need to draw the ones that DID use to buy these 2-3 cds a month and stop not out of pirate idealism but simply because no one gives a f&*k weather they buy or not!
No one tries to attract them again to mabe change their minds and od buy something..
This is our war zone not the pirates.
DJ NADI EarPeaks music Group (Domo/Tupan/Gat music)
www.domorecords.com info@domorecords.com
www.tupan-records.com www.earpeaks.com |
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talamasca
Talamasca
Started Topics :
22
Posts :
180
Posted : Apr 29, 2004 05:44
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well...i just come back from israel , where i had a very good meeting with my friends of chemical-crew , and it is now 100% official that "mind-control" and "chemical-crew" will join their forces and work together.......
We'll do the cds cheaper , as promised , by a way or another.....and if those 20 % you are talking about detox , are playing the same game than us , it means already that it worth the effort....
now , sorry nahim , but i don t agree with what you are writing.....to sell in the parties your cds for 5 euros means also that in the country where you will do this , you agree to not sell any cds in shops , first of all because why some people would buy the cd 5 euros and some others 17 ? second because i don t know any distribution who will accept that you sell cds cheaper than them....so as a label who will be distributed everywhere , this solution is not the best i think.....and come on , you know how it works....if we talk just about advances , then a compilation costs a lot to make.....every artist take between 500 and 1500 dollars for a track for a compilation...you have about 9 tracks..............+the people who work for you , + the factory , +the graphic for the cover , +the mastering , +the phone bill of the label (only international calls!!!)+the taxes because you are a company...etc...etc...this is the other side now , the one that most of people don t see!!!
anyway , we will not find a solution in this topic i think , because now it takes some time to make it......i 'll come back of course to read if there are new ideas coming out from this , but i think now , the next step is to see what will happen after the first releases.....which are ZOO-3 of chemical crew , and my album on Mind-control.....
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talamasca
Talamasca
Started Topics :
22
Posts :
180
Posted : Apr 29, 2004 05:49
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by the way , thank you elysium and detox....you are doing my job here , and when i think about all the time it would have take me to explain all what you wrote , i realise you made me save a lot of energie...heheheh..... |
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limbic
Limbic
Started Topics :
27
Posts :
282
Posted : Apr 29, 2004 06:07
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Quote:
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On 2004-04-29 05:39, nahimoff wrote:
limbic the bookings are usually the only money we can call profit, cause from cd selling you can maybe finance your next releases but not to live from it.
Chobo, first of all my name is nadi and not nahim, second as crazy as it seems, i am the one responsible for your joy Personally!!
I packed your cd package from trance-shop, and thats the way every package goes out!!
so you can witness that there are at least some distributors who try to promote their products...
All in all I must agrre also with mike detox here this is the real situation, but for those people we already lost the war, they are not the ones that we see our help coming from.
We need to draw the ones that DID use to buy these 2-3 cds a month and stop not out of pirate idealism but simply because no one gives a f&*k weather they buy or not!
No one tries to attract them again to mabe change their minds and od buy something..
This is our war zone not the pirates.
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well thats not bad i think i dont see where labels goal is if u can profit from parties and make any release enough benefit for the next release thats a good situation i think cause u dont lose that way from what i understand
make it a way of worl improve your PR around the world organize label parties eems good way to me
also that way more artist will want ot be in label who sees his goal in performances |
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lusty_freak
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
23
Posts :
640
Posted : Apr 29, 2004 07:18
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First of all I want to congratulate you for your new label.Wish you tons of luck!
Now,since here I can sense people are having a reasonable and interesting discussion (something rare nowadays in this forum) I will also leave my thought on this matter based on my own experience.
Right now,I own the only trance shop in Portugal,more precisely in my home town,Oporto.We sell only clothes,accessories and of course,cd's,not only trance,but also chill out.
As you all,I feel in my own skin the trouble of mp3 and I can honestely say,that it's something that won't be quite easy to fight against.
In january,due to some bad experiences with online shops I decided I wouldn't work with them any longer.So,my only chance,if I wanted to keep selling music,was to contact directely the own labels.Obviously I wasn't able yet to contact all the labels in the scene,but I'm slowly working on that.
Of the labels I already spoke,a few gave me a positive feedback,but as well,a few other gave me a negative awnser,due to their exclusivity contracts with their distributors,that would only allow them to sell it directely to that country if it involved a distribution to the whole country,that obviously I can't garantee,since in the present days I consider myself lucky if I'm able to sell 20 cd's in one month.The situation gets even more ridiculous if I tell you I also go to partys around here to sell and as most of you know,partys in Portugal are quite big!
Also,I refuse myself to sell cd's for more then 15€ (unless it's a double release),but I can garante you that 70% of the releases I have on my shop are cheaper than that.That also was one of the things that didn't allowed me to work with 2 labels that wanted me to pay 12 and 13€ for their releases,which,for most of you it's useless to say,that it's quite unthinkable for the prices I practice.
Everyday there's people coming in my shop,that speak about mp3,and that use the excuse of music being to expensive,but when I confront them with my prices,that beats down in all ways FNAC's and other music shops,they get the other excuse,why to buy music,when they can have it for free?Sometimes I try to explain them how that is affecting the movement,the kind of difficulties labels are getting through nowadays,and obviously,the difference in quality,but all the time I got more and more excuses,that for me are quite unthinkable,but that for them it completely justify their acts.I don't even tell them to go out and buy everything,that of course I know it's something inpracticable,I don't say them to just stop downloading,because I know they won't stop doing that,but I try to make them understand,that at least,the things they really really like,the albuns of their favourite artists,at least those they should buy,to at least give them the minimum support.As you can imagine,95% of these efforts are in vain and obviously sometimes I get tired and just makes me think if it really worths all of this fight.Specially when someone like me,who wants to keep an underground shop gets almost no support from labels,who I think are the principal interested in deal and find a solution for this trouble.Some simply don't awnser the e-mails,others end up ignoring some requests,like to at least keep me updated of their future releases,others just get back with some really arrogant manner,as so many other examples I could give you that would keep you here reading this post for eternity.
Now,another point.In a situation like mine,which is to have a small and underground shop and to those who are interested in working not only with me,but with some similar cases of small and underground shops,who can't really work with big distribuitors,because it simply doesn't gives us a real compensation and my special case,that beside that,had one online distribuitor that failed me two orders in the christmas season (that as you can imagine,it was pretty bad to my business) and since then,just quited of the idea of trying to work with another.Obviously,if I work with an online shop,I can get more diversity and less quantity of each release,and obviously,when working directely with a label,that's not possible,since I'm restricted to the label own releases and obviously in my case,what interests me mostly is to have to sell the newest releases,but I'll have to buy a big quantity of each one if I want to get a reasonable price,which will end up in not making any effect,since I'm not an huge shop,and my sales per month are quite low and the tendency is to go even lower,so I'm basically being forced to reconsider my policie and I'm starting to pounder stop selling music,because basically it just gives me headaches and my profit is zero.I keep losing money and for as much as I like music and wanting to keep selling it,if there's no return it's useless to keep doing it for nothing.
I do really think that labels miss the importance that these small underground shops like mine have in our local areas.Just remember,where do you think people are going to get flyers of partys (that regardless of what you think it's always publicity for the artists and for the labels) and the informations they need about an artist,or a party,or whatever?I can assure you,it's not in big surfaces like FNAC,Virgin,etc.Do you think that these big stores care at all with trance situation?Because defenitly,the whole problem may be global,but the ones who get more affected are smaller and more underground genres like ours.They won't try to save your asses in this struggle,but to the styles that grant them the biggest part of the profits,in this case Pop and Rock music.Remember,that besides party organizations we are the last ones that make the bridge between you (labels and artists) and the public itself and we are one of your last allies and if we disappear as it's progressively happening,then you'll lose one of your last allies.
I think it would be nice if you guys started to remember a little bit more of people like me and trying to figure out a few ways to also help us.By doing that you'll be only helping yourselfs out.
I do have a few ideas about this particular issue that if you are interested hearing about I would like to discuss,but not here in public.
Now to end a few suggestions that may help you caught a bit of the public's attention.
One of the things I notice in trance releases is the booklet that comes with the album.When you pick up the booklet it's just something really poor.They may have a good artwork,but if you open the booklet,there's nothing more beside a few information and the people that artists and the label itself show their gratitude.I don't buy only trance not even only dance music,I buy a bit of all,and in most styles,you have bigger booklets and even if they don't contain the lyrics there's always some more things that tend to be more entartaining and that in fact,do make the difference.
Also,another thing I think it would be interesting was if the releases stoped being seen and presented to the audiance as another release and if started to had a bit more of concept.Try to base your future works under a certain concept,but something that the ones that are more attentive can see that it's something that has a true meaning and that has a certain sequence,that will interact with them and that will leave them wondering what's coming next.This works for the public in a conscient and in an unconscient level.Want an example?
The last Crystal Matrix compilation - Utopia - had a concept.All the tracks were given names of lands (some real,some not so real) and the artwork and the the own sequence itself were really related to the compilation itself.Basically,the whole album as an history,and I don't really know if it sold more then the others,but I can assure that I had twice more people asking for this compilation then any of their other releases.
Also in the fewer parties me and my organization made there was a concern with this concept and I can tell you the results were really good.We may not have many people in them,but all the people who were there left really satisfied and we had great reviews of them.I was looking at a portuguese forum the other day,and I entered in one topic of a festival for which we made the chill out line up and suddendly I got myself surprised by seeing that there were more people talking about our presence there then people talking about the organization it self and there were lots of complements to the work we have been developing some made by friends,but most part of them by people who I don't really know,but that have already been in some of our parties or that heard about them.What made this all?Simple,the people who were there saw that we didn't only concern in producing another party,but something with a concept and above all and most important,it were original concepts.Not something copy/paste by someone else.People saw there was a concern of our part in give them something more then what they are used to.
There's plenty more things I could suggest you,but it would only make this post bigger and more boring (LOL ),but the biggest advice I can give you is this:
Search something new that wasn't been yet offered to the public,something with a meaning and with a concept.In a short term it may not cause a big effect,but in the long term you will certainly feel the effect of it.
Sorry if sometimes the ideas of this post get a bit messy,but it's already really late around here and I spent to many time writting this (huge) post and my head is already getting a bit tired and confused not letting me express myself sometimes in the way I would like to do it.So if you have any doubts about what I wrote or if you can't understand something,please,just ask,I'll be more then pleased to explain you.Afterall,a good communication is the best way to understand other peoples ideas. En Sof Future Events:
- 29th January 2010 - Return To The Source @ Porto Rio
www.facebook.com/ensofpt
www.myspace.com/ensofproductions |
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ChoBo
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
50
Posts :
536
Posted : Apr 29, 2004 10:46
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Hey Nadi, thanks for packaging that for me and giving me that sticker
Alright now besides what cedric has said about the whole process of making an album or compil. Lets look exactly about what we know.
1 - MP3 Downloading is here to stay
2 - CD sales have been going down?
3 - More would prefer to download than to buy
4 - Will making cds cheaper help increase sales? In regards to all the processes like what cedric had said. That i do not know.
5 - This is a small scene where downloading greatly effects the sales. Forget about pop music, they still can make money eventhough the masses download.
The question is how you can reach a wider audience and make audience buy the cds. I think the topic is getting out on hand on the issues of how difficult or expensive it is to make a cd. I offered suggestions of stickers but a lot have disagreed.
I have a suggestion which may actually help to check sales as well as give a chance for listeners to help labels through feedback. In every cd, insert a coupon, in there will be a code. Listeners in order to get something or win something have to go through the website and fill out a simple form about the album or compil. BUT they must enter their coupon code (More of the coupon code later) in order to participate this.
Now the listeners or buyers dont necessary want super duper expensive gifts as a reward from buying the cds. Make a coupon code like a lucky draw. After a period of 3 months or so. Pick the lucky winner and the person could maybe get a free promo or next album or next compil (upcoming) . I dont know how much that would hurt to the label. But try and make everybody to get a chance to win as well. Maybe the 2nd and 3rd winner maybe get a free copy of any older albums or compil he wants! Now, would that make buying the music morewhile? It would to me because i know i might have a chance to get a free cd in return. Only 1 winner out of how many thousand copies but that alone might encourage people to buy. Plus i doubt 1 cd can hurt the label, if you guys can send promos why not make one of the promos as a lucky draw thing.
The point is that if labels wana sell, they should try to make sure that their buyers will at least get something which
1 - Cannot be downloaded from the net
2 - Non MP3
3 - Impossible to get hold except from labels, maybe a free party ticket for the labels next performance or an event?
The point i am trying to say is that the lil freebies doesnt have to items which are so expensive.
These can be -
Stickers
Dj Sleeves
Lucky Draw?
A nice tiny calendar (size of cd cover)
A nice cover? (HOM-Mega [Sub 6 - Raheya] )
It is just worth a try and see what happens. I personally doubt that lowering the price of the cd would actually help. Why? People will still download! That is the bottom line.
Sorry i have been posting so much crap, i dont know if it even helps. But labels and artists in this scene have my highest respect because of how difficult it is to make business work in this scene. They are always trying to give us something special and they work hard on it eventhough things dont go their way. Even with the huge problem of downloading, they continue to make new albums and compilations. With that, I dont want the scene to die that is why I as a listener, buyer, audience want to share my views. Might help or not? If it does help, then i am very happy for the label, if it does not it does not mean it is the end. I just dont want the scene to die, thats all! |
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Mxs
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
10
Posts :
33
Posted : Apr 29, 2004 12:38
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this prolly isn't relevant to this discussion. But can someone tell me why the majority of psytrance releases are albums as opposed to singles when you look at the other styles of electronic dance music? I would rather pay 10-15$ (aus) for a single then 30-40$ for a couple of tracks that I like and the rest I never bother to listen to. |
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