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LABELS DAMAGED OR NO

Alias
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  32
Posts :  984
Posted : Mar 13, 2008 16:22
very interesting information from DETOX!
tnx for sharing!
          www.myspace.com/aliasix
Alias
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  32
Posts :  984
Posted : Mar 13, 2008 16:27
Quote:

On 2008-03-13 09:55, Mike A wrote:
Detox, maybe the laws in Greece make it difficult, but in Israel you have this thing called "small business" if you hardly make any money, where you have to pay very little tax, dont have to have an office etc etc etc.
Once a year you go to the authorities, report to them what money you made and that's it.




i'm sure it's also in Greece!
however...the small business you talking about it's not related to "show business" and import\export relations.

i just can't explain it properly in english......i'm sure detox can explain it very well!           www.myspace.com/aliasix
neuromantik
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  28
Posts :  593
Posted : Mar 13, 2008 16:28
Quote:

On 2008-03-13 01:34, DETOX wrote:
For me discography is dead and expect really soon to see some of your favorite labels closing their doors,i had a chat with some people some time ago and the news are not good at all.


Quote:

SHIVAGIRLLOVE wrote:
i already know 3 big 1s on the way



Who? Who? We want names goddamit...
DETOX
Moderator

Started Topics :  290
Posts :  6194
Posted : Mar 13, 2008 17:34
Interesting info from Mike A and Colin but i dont know like Alias already mentioned if this "small business" practice applies to having a label where you are involved in international business and import/export activities,personally i doubt so but maybe they know better.

In any case though the operating expenses although quiet high are just a 10%-15% of the total costs i mentioned so even if they are eliminated or limited to half in some countries still we are talking about a good release costing as much as 7500 euros per cd.Still very difficult to break event with todays situation.           Toodaloo Motherfuckers!!!!!
Suntrip Records
Suntrip Records

Started Topics :  54
Posts :  129
Posted : Mar 13, 2008 18:02
Quote:

In order to built something stone by stone the ground beneath has to be strong and able to hold your structure,at the moment the psy trance market(the ground) cannot support the labels for many and various reasons which we can discuss in another topic,reasons like too many labels and artists around,people not willing to buy music when they can get it for free and many more which we can discuss somewhere else another time.



Well, maybe I was lucky that we started 4 years ago, but still I believe there is space for new/other labels... The ground is indeed not stable... But even in Japan, with all the earthquacks, they managed to build skyscrapers... You just need to make your ground more stable! (by releasing only great music, choose a certain direction, bring the cds to the people via parties etc instead of only via internet,...)



Quote:

Also i dont know how it is possible to maintain a label just for fun purposes,i mean having a label is a great deal that demands lot of time,effort and ofcourse money,i dont know many people that can afford loosing 2-3 thousand euros every three months from each release just for fun



Well, it demands ALOT of work, I agree, it's an extra part time job... but the reason for running a label is (for me at least) love for the music... I just take care that I don't lose any money (I don't win any either), and to be honest, I get "paid" by the warm reactions and positive words from people...
I agree that losing money is not fun, and when that happens you should stop the label indeed, or make stuff cheaper, take cheaper artists etc...
Don't forget, the price of an artist is made by the labels, not the other way around... if nobody gives an artist 4000 for an album, his price will drop!


Quote:

and thats actually the problem that started it all,people wanted to have labels but because they couldnt afford having a serious label with some serious music and make a serious positive impact on the scene



Well, if the big labels kept (!!!!) releasing good stuff, I would agree, but like 80% of the stuff I buy these days that I really like is from small labels... The big labels became more and more commercial and went further away from their psychedelic roots... THAT will cause their death... imo, change is good, but it was change in a bad way...

Quote:

These "labels" destroyed all the serious labels in the market and destroyed the sales for everyone plus confused the people who dont know what to buy and what to not buy when they see 20-30 releases on a weekly basis.



Well, they had an impact for sure, but not so big imo... Also, in theory there is nothing wrong with 300 cds labels... You have to realise they release music that is NOT for a big public... I really HATE the dark core stuff, but it seems like there is a market for it, so why not having those small labels releasing it...?

Quote:

i will share a story with you just to understand what i am talking about,when we released the Wizzy Noise album Sabotage we sold 2000 copies of it during the first two months of its release from which half went to Japan,after this time the cd was sold out everywhere from Psyshop to Saikosounds and from our local music stores to even Japan where Wizzy are a big name,although the people were asking for the cd noone was reordering,when i called to ask them why they dont reorder the answer i got back was "Sorry Mike but although there is high demand on the Wizzy cd it is now two months old and we cant buy more copies since we have to buy copies from the new releases otherwise we will have problems with the distribution networks and the labels who will sell their new releases to our competitors if we dont buy certain numbers from them".



This is very weird, as we sold out ALL our first 6 cds in the mean time, simply because they were restocked all the time by Psyshop and Saikosounds,... , even 3 years after, untill they were out of stock... I even had the feeling shops do ALL they can do to sell more... As it's their only way of surviving... But anyway, your story is true of course, and then it is foolish by them


Colin OOOD
OOOD/Voice of Cod

Started Topics :  95
Posts :  5379
Posted : Mar 13, 2008 19:32
Quote:

On 2008-03-13 17:34, DETOX wrote:
Interesting info from Mike A and Colin but i dont know like Alias already mentioned if this "small business" practice applies to having a label where you are involved in international business and import/export activities,personally i doubt so but maybe they know better.


It makes no difference what you do AFAIK. If it did, then the thousands of people making a living from home by selling stuff internationally on eBay would be breaking the law, but as far as I know it's perfectly legal.           Mastering - http://mastering.OOOD.net :: www.is.gd/mastering
OOOD 5th album 'You Think You Are' - www.is.gd/tobuyoood :: www.OOOD.net
www.facebook.com/OOOD.music :: www.soundcloud.com/oood
Contact for bookings/mastering - colin@oood.net
Spindrift
Spindrift

Started Topics :  33
Posts :  1560
Posted : Mar 13, 2008 20:28
I never heard of anywhere you are not allowed to run a business from home...sound bizarre if that's the case in Greece.

Import and export is a bit more complicated when it comes to taxes, but otherwise there is no special demands on the type of company you need to have or that you need a separate office, at least not in Sweden.
The exception is certain merchandise like food, medicines or weapons where you need to apply for a permit.           (``.(``.(``..`).`).`)
.....www.ResonantEarth.com.....
(.`(.`(.```.)``.)``.)

http://www.myspace.com/spindriftsounds
http://www.myspace.com/resonantearth
MOONSUN-RECORDS.gr
Moonsun Records

Started Topics :  128
Posts :  1864
Posted : Mar 13, 2008 22:27
not here at least, u need to go and tax ure home and say that i use so much space for the label and also some 1 guy will pass to see it and also say if its ok for a label
then u pay like all jobs 340 euros every 2 months insurence. plus u get taxed each year from the hole profit u make...
Mike A
Subra

Started Topics :  185
Posts :  3954
Posted : Mar 13, 2008 23:12
Quote:

On 2008-03-13 16:27, Alias wrote:

i'm sure it's also in Greece!
however...the small business you talking about it's not related to "show business" and importexport relations.

i just can't explain it properly in english......i'm sure detox can explain it very well!


Does it matter if it's a "show business", thing? Does it matter if you hand make little furry animals, draw paintings from leftover apples, make color to paint your car tires from black to pink or whatever? No one cares what your business is about (unless you do something special like sellings guns hehe). If in Greece the situation is different, well - you're fucked?
Social security is also much cheaper here, and if you also have a job you don't even have to pay it.
If your profit is under a certain amount (equivalent of around 11000 I think) you don't even have to pay any taxes at all.


Anyway - I'm with Suntrip records here. First of all, you must make the music good. Even if those are big artists you are putting on your compilation, it doesn't automatically mean you will sell. After all, full-on labels are (or were, since I see that genre in decline lately) quite common. So even if you have the best artists on your compilation, you still have a lot of competition. There will be 5 more compilations with the same artists, so let's say a certain buyer can buy only one cd, you have 1/5 chance of him getting yours.
If you had a unique release, which doesn't necessarily has the best mastering and the best artists, you would have a bigger chance in selling since there is less competition. The number of potential buyers would be lower, since it is underground and not mainstream but you end up selling the same amount while investing less without compromising the quality much.
MOONSUN-RECORDS.gr
Moonsun Records

Started Topics :  128
Posts :  1864
Posted : Mar 14, 2008 00:30
we work mostly labels here for promo mike a and cose we love trance and have been with it 15 years now
there is no way to make money in greece on it
u pay more than half away, the piont is i lost a lot but i keep it cose i feel good about it.....
if u want to make money beter open distribution
Mike A
Subra

Started Topics :  185
Posts :  3954
Posted : Mar 14, 2008 00:40
Not only greece, no way anywhere to make money on it. Of course we all do it for the love of music. I wasn't saying you should do it for money.
If you want to make money, better study IT and get a job
Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle

Started Topics :  158
Posts :  5306
Posted : Mar 14, 2008 04:23
Quote:

On 2008-03-13 23:12, Mike A wrote:

If you had a unique release, which doesn't necessarily has the best mastering and the best artists, you would have a bigger chance in selling since there is less competition. The number of potential buyers would be lower, since it is underground and not mainstream but you end up selling the same amount while investing less without compromising the quality much.




how is that not compromise ???

"which doesn't necessarily has the best mastering and the best artists"

here is your compromise...

first mastering with tim shuldt is not expensive at all and pritty good results.. if you save 50eu will it matter as bad mastering ? sure no..

as for artists and music i would say: sign only great music.
on the other hand , dont be impressed with stupid stuff like "big name" "name that sell" "old old artist since the 80's"
just sounds.
and doing that reveal that names are almost never match to the expectation.. while fresh young artists have alot to offer.          www.sattelbattle.com
http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/
aXis
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  116
Posts :  2562
Posted : Mar 14, 2008 04:37
elad is turning green ( like the hulk )
Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle

Started Topics :  158
Posts :  5306
Posted : Mar 14, 2008 04:57
lol , i better stay in the equipment section , my keyboard will thank me for sure           www.sattelbattle.com
http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/
Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle

Started Topics :  158
Posts :  5306
Posted : Mar 14, 2008 07:53
also i wanna say
record label is not 1 cd

once you have nice 20 cds in stock and your possibilty to ship your own cds

you sell minimum of 200 copies a month + digital sales!

then its start to look like business , a new realese should be a strong month but not the hole deal!
          www.sattelbattle.com
http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/
Trance Forum  Forum  Trance - LABELS DAMAGED OR NO
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