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LABELS DAMAGED OR NO
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Spindrift
Spindrift
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1560
Posted : Mar 12, 2008 00:15
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On 2008-03-11 23:29, Login wrote:
At least for this I found a solution:
Do it at third world country, do it in China , sure there is somebody waiting to print and pack cd's and then send them to europe.
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Prices is lower in many developing countries, but you will have have import taxes and higher deliver costs so in the end you don't save that much.
It's also more hassle and can be lower quality on the press and prints.
As to why there is a resistance to downloads of course labels, distributors and shops are not too exited since they have to change a lot to not become superfluous.
Many of the people who actually buy music is collectors who like to have a piece of plastic that they can grab and the are not too keen in the idea that CD releases will become a rarity in the future.
And for artists and download shops the reality is that there is not a lot of downloads being sold so far.
  (``·.¸(``·.¸(``·.¸¸.·`´)¸.·`´)¸.·`´)
« .....www.ResonantEarth.com..... »
(¸.·`´(¸.·`´(¸.·`´``·.¸)``·.¸)``·.¸)
http://www.myspace.com/spindriftsounds
http://www.myspace.com/resonantearth |
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Login
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
65
Posts :
1707
Posted : Mar 12, 2008 00:19
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On 2008-03-12 00:15, Spindrift wrote:
Prices is lower in many developing countries, but you will have have import taxes and higher deliver costs so in the end you don't save that much.
It's also more hassle and can be lower quality on the press and prints.
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Shit i forget about taxes  ..
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DETOX
Moderator
Started Topics :
296
Posts :
6194
Posted : Mar 12, 2008 00:24
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On 2008-03-11 23:29, Login wrote:
I'm pretty impresed by this, 1 euro for one jewel case?????
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Yes since labels print small amount of cds like 1000-2500 copies the price of jewell case is around 0.90 to 1.00 euro per unit.We are dealing with small independent labels here not giants like Sony who print one million copies on their albums and get ridiculous low prices on printing like 10 or 15 cents per unit.
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On 2008-03-11 23:29, Login wrote:
Do it at third world country, do it in China , sure there is somebody waiting to print and pack cd's and then send them to europe.
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You really dont want to know the postage price for posting 1000 cds from China to Europe.Also in todays global economy which i happen to know very well since i study international business there is a term called taxes from third countries (not third world just third countries) which states that while living in Europe you can import whatever you like from countries within Segen with no taxes but if you try to import something from countries like USA,China or Japan then you got to pay taxes which are really really high ranging from 30-50 percent depending what you import and the invoice of the items.Thats why people living in Brazil dont buy music from Psyshop because they charge them 50% extra taxes in their customs,thats the same reason that labels dont send their music there but either send cds with their artists when they visit the country or give permission to local distributors to print the cds there and sell them in the local market.
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On 2008-03-11 23:29, Login wrote:
maybe some labels could send to print together some 10 album/comp, accounting for 10,000 cd and share the cost of shipping direct to the shop or distributor.
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Printing 10 different cds from 1000 units each is not like printing 10000 units from the same cd,actually its very very different and it doesnt affect the price at all to be honest,i dont want to get into terms of operations management here but all i can say to you is that these two things are very different for operating and manufacturing costs which remain the same since we are dealing with ten different orders here and not one big order.
Also the cost for sending 10.000 cds from China to Europe is still huge (might be even bigger than sending seperately ten packages of 1000 cds each for reasons that have to do with postage rates that have to do not only with weight but also with space) and not only that but in order for the labels to share it they must send it to the same destination meaning having the same distributor which is very unlikely.Also i have to mention here that the main distributors in our scene offer their own printing services to their clients and dont handle such situations because they dont want to deal with postage payments and taxation issues because some label owners are quiet strange to work with and a distributor cant rely that a label will pay him the postage and taxation money after the shipping has arrived,its highly complicated actually.
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On 2008-03-11 23:29, Login wrote:
So following detox figures, physical labels have no salvation, so whats next, only net labels? only digital distribution???
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Physical labels are dead already the only reason that the majority of them is still in the market is because of their owners promoting themselves in order to get dj gigs and to get a percentage from their artists bookings.Out of 200 labels i doubt that 10% of them make a profit from selling cds.
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On 2008-03-11 23:29, Login wrote:
Why so many resistance to only digital distribution???
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No problem with digital distribution,the problem is not the distribution,the problem is that people dont buy something that they can get for free,even if cds cost was 5 euros in the market then the sales wouldnt get a big boost because the problem lies in the mentality of people and ofcourse their lack of money which is preety much a global phenomenon unfortunately.They prefer to spend their money on things they cant download (clothes,new car,new pc,etc etc) than paying something they can download.
Toodaloo Motherfuckers!!!!! |
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Fria Tantrumm
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
368
Posted : Mar 12, 2008 09:45
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OK, Firstly I didn't mention printing prices, as I should have, as that can be and usually is advanced by the distributors. And then subsequently deducted from sales. But anyways...yes the figure is around 1 euro per cd and one can try to wiggle their way out by printing in India (someone tried this and got 1000 data cds instead of audio cds and had to reprint) or china...but postage is a huge expense...so it's usually easier to have distribution print and deal with the immediate expense of postage as well...this is all usually advanced to the label.
About the operating expenses....i'm sorry to say but most labels are not registered. Tantrumm is registered in USA but I am not required to pay any tax or any monthly expenses because of the registration. I use my home as my office, and I try not to hire anybody else hehehhe  I haven't had any operating expenses over and above the usual I spend monthly just to maintain a running household..but anyways...truth of teh matter is Detox is more or less hitting the correct total, and thats not what is usually gotten compensated for.
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Fractal Cowboys : Post Singularity COMING SOON :)
Orestis : Recursice Consciousness OUT
Psykovsky: Na Ve Ka is OUT! |
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aXis
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
116
Posts :
2562
Posted : Mar 12, 2008 09:56
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soolution? Stop writing here  every1 shud just keep doin their own thing and all will be good. |
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Suntrip Records
Suntrip Records
Started Topics :
54
Posts :
129
Posted : Mar 12, 2008 14:14
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Come on, it is not that hard... Start small, and build on it, stone by stone...
If you run a label as a job... IMPOSSIBLE, if you run a label for fun... very much possible... First calculate your budget very carefully, and after that, just make sure you stay within the budget when compiling a cd, and if an artists asks 4000$, you say "fuck u" if it is not payable for you...
We never had a problem with paying our artists because we know BEFORE how much we could give... 
and if there was a little profit left we invested it in parties, T Shirts, stickers, or special stuff on cds (like our double cd now) etc
Ps: it's LAME if you don't pay artists as a label... How can you do that? If you start a company, you make sure you can pay all you want, no? Even if it is your own money... I can not imagine to start a label without a budget I have on my own bank account...
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
Started Topics :
158
Posts :
5306
Posted : Mar 12, 2008 14:25
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Braindrop
Braindrop
Started Topics :
140
Posts :
1730
Posted : Mar 12, 2008 18:40
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This is one of the best threads ive read in recent times.
@Detox,Fria,Moonsun,elad.. Thnx for the info.
Its good to knw of the realities... and more..when it actually works
www.braindrop.in |
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DETOX
Moderator
Started Topics :
296
Posts :
6194
Posted : Mar 13, 2008 01:34
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On 2008-03-12 09:45, Fria Tantrumm wrote:
About the operating expenses....i'm sorry to say but most labels are not registered.
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Dear Fria the problem is that if a label is not registered as a company then it cannot provide valid invoices and therefore cannot sell its products to shops and distributors unless ofcourse these shops too sell without providing invoices to their customers.Whenever i had to send my cds to Japan or Psyshop or Saikosounds i had to provide them with a valid invoice because they also need an invoice in order to sell my cds to their customers.Legally its impossible to have a non registered label and selling your products to big shops like Psyshop and Saikosounds or ship them to Japan where you got to include an invoice along with the cds because of the customs.I think that the majority of labels are (actually the have to) registered otherwise i dont know how they can do business except ofcourse if they sell their cds just on their own which also is illegal but at least they are alone taking the risk since big shops cant take this risk.Even when i was selling my cds to local street cd shops in Greece i had to provide them with invoices otherwise they couldnt sell them to their clients.
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On 2008-03-12 09:45, Fria Tantrumm wrote:
Tantrumm is registered in USA but I am not required to pay any tax or any monthly expenses because of the registration. I use my home as my office
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You dont have to pay any taxes when you dont declare your incomes,i mean if i sell cds and i dont state this to the authorities or lets say i sell 5000 cds per year and i say to them that i sold 1000 cds and i hide the invoices then its normal not to pay any taxes at all since i show no profit or small profit which doesnt get taxed.If you do everything legally and you make a profit out of the label then you have to pay taxes and its something you cant avoid.
Using your home as your office and as a business base its actually illegal just for your info but many people do it because the authorities dont pay much attention to it.Its not wise though if you ask me because one in a million something might happen and the authorities might pop up for a check up and they can take whatever they want from your house since for them its an office and everything inside it like computer for example can be taken for further examination of the business transactions.
Concerning social security there are two reasons why you are not paying it,one is that you are working already somewhere else so you dont have to pay double social security (for example me i pay my social security from the shipping business i own so when i opened my label i didnt have to pay again for social security) or secondly something is obviously wrong with your label registration since telling me that you pay no taxes or social security automatically means that something is not right concerning the papers of the label.I mean even if you dont work somewhere else (where your employer is responsible for declaring you as his worker and therefore paying your social security and keeping an ammount of it out of your wages) then if you have declared your label and registered it as legal business then automatically you are considered as a businessman and you are getting taxated and charged for social security.Sorry mate but something seems wrong here with all the respect.Please correct me if i am saying something wrong.
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On 2008-03-12 14:14, Suntrip Records wrote:
Come on, it is not that hard... Start small, and build on it, stone by stone...
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In order to built something stone by stone the ground beneath has to be strong and able to hold your structure,at the moment the psy trance market(the ground) cannot support the labels for many and various reasons which we can discuss in another topic,reasons like too many labels and artists around,people not willing to buy music when they can get it for free and many more which we can discuss somewhere else another time.
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On 2008-03-12 14:14, Suntrip Records wrote:
If you run a label as a job... IMPOSSIBLE, if you run a label for fun... very much possible...
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Very few people run psy trance labels for business purposes only,i mean there is no profit out there for discography anymore since the market numbers are ridiculusly low with great albums selling just 1500-2000 copies in 2 years time which is absolutely nothing.Also i dont know how it is possible to maintain a label just for fun purposes,i mean having a label is a great deal that demands lot of time,effort and ofcourse money,i dont know many people that can afford loosing 2-3 thousand euros every three months from each release just for fun and thats actually the problem that started it all,people wanted to have labels but because they couldnt afford having a serious label with some serious music and make a serious positive impact on the scene then they started gathering free tracks from their friends and all those wannabe artists, they printed 500 cds and gave them away to the market.This way they risked no money at all,by selling 300 copies they could cover all their expenses (mainly printing the cds since there was no mastering to be done and the artwork was also done by a friend and like i said they payed nothing for the music) and in the end they called themselves label owners and many of them also declared themselves djs and started advertising themselves through their "labels",free self promotion in a few words.These "labels" destroyed all the serious labels in the market and destroyed the sales for everyone plus confused the people who dont know what to buy and what to not buy when they see 20-30 releases on a weekly basis.The shops are obliged due to competition to feature every release on their catalog so they limit their purchases from the big and serious labels in order to buy some copies from these small bedroom labels so while the big labels got tottally fucked up these small labels managed to survive by selling minimum copies for covering their minimum expenses.I dont consider my label Exposure as a major label but i will share a story with you just to understand what i am talking about,when we released the Wizzy Noise album Sabotage we sold 2000 copies of it during the first two months of its release from which half went to Japan,after this time the cd was sold out everywhere from Psyshop to Saikosounds and from our local music stores to even Japan where Wizzy are a big name,although the people were asking for the cd noone was reordering,when i called to ask them why they dont reorder the answer i got back was "Sorry Mike but although there is high demand on the Wizzy cd it is now two months old and we cant buy more copies since we have to buy copies from the new releases otherwise we will have problems with the distribution networks and the labels who will sell their new releases to our competitors if we dont buy certain numbers from them".
I was fucking speechless,the people wanted to buy the Wizzy Noise album but the shops wouldnt buy more copies of it simply because they had to satisfy other distributions and other labels who had new products coming out and the stores couldnt just say we want ten copies of this release but we dont want this and this release,they just had to buy everything in order to keep everyone happy and create no enemies in the market because if you said to a distribution we want the new Twisted Records releases (just a fictious example) but we dont want those shitty releases from Israel then the distributor would say to the shop that either you buy both or we dont give you nothing.This is why i stopped with my label (at least for the time being) because i didnt want to get involved into this shit.
For me discography is dead and expect really soon to see some of your favorite labels closing their doors,i had a chat with some people some time ago and the news are not good at all.
Toodaloo Motherfuckers!!!!! |
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SHIVAGIRLLOVE
Started Topics :
3
Posts :
78
Posted : Mar 13, 2008 04:26
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For me discography is dead and expect really soon to see some of your favorite labels closing their doors,i had a chat with some people some time ago and the news are not good at all.
i already know 3 big 1s on the way |
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Baba System
Started Topics :
2
Posts :
41
Posted : Mar 13, 2008 04:57
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hi heverybodys!!!! heres da thingz... the label haves to pay big shantied euros to artistz like baba, no deals with low monyes... also is da very importants that you own a fulls onnnn kilarghhhh label or you cannots survive the trip. Hope its helped for youzzz.
http://www.myspace.com/babasystem |
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mk47
Inactive User
Started Topics :
118
Posts :
4444
Posted : Mar 13, 2008 06:16
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lol
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Mike A
Subra
Started Topics :
185
Posts :
3954
Posted : Mar 13, 2008 09:55
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Detox, maybe the laws in Greece make it difficult, but in Israel you have this thing called "small business" if you hardly make any money, where you have to pay very little tax, dont have to have an office etc etc etc.
Once a year you go to the authorities, report to them what money you made and that's it.
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Colin OOOD
OOOD/Voice of Cod
Started Topics :
95
Posts :
5380
Posted : Mar 13, 2008 11:58
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Yellow Warrior
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
35
Posts :
898
Posted : Mar 13, 2008 15:27
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Quote:
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On 2008-03-12 14:14, Suntrip Records wrote:
Come on, it is not that hard... Start small, and build on it, stone by stone...
If you run a label as a job... IMPOSSIBLE, if you run a label for fun... very much possible... First calculate your budget very carefully, and after that, just make sure you stay within the budget when compiling a cd, and if an artists asks 4000$, you say "fuck u" if it is not payable for you...
We never had a problem with paying our artists because we know BEFORE how much we could give...
and if there was a little profit left we invested it in parties, T Shirts, stickers, or special stuff on cds (like our double cd now) etc
Ps: it's LAME if you don't pay artists as a label... How can you do that? If you start a company, you make sure you can pay all you want, no? Even if it is your own money... I can not imagine to start a label without a budget I have on my own bank account...
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Such a shame that so many labels do not use the same level of common sense!
Sad but True....
what's that sayin you have to crawl before you walk, walk before you run or something like that......
Rather than feeling that you're about to have the rug pulled from under you, let me teach you how to dance on a flying carpet |
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