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Israelis in India
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Zhandaly
Started Topics :
1
Posts :
13
Posted : Aug 31, 2005 22:10
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so one bad apple can ruin the whole basket?
the israelies are great people, but we got the bad apples too, and sometimes the world focus only on the bad apples. i dont think its your job, Shahar, to be a catagor on our on people, we got some rotten "people" (i prefer calling them animals) that make us look bad, like those who spray graffity on historical places world wide, those who talk loudly, act violently, messing up hotel rooms, etc.
but you will look closly, you will see that our majority, big majority is nice calm people who travel to south america and asia for the vibes and the people you find in those places, in a wide world survey we have ended in the fifth place in the most welcome travellers in the world (yeah, suprising), and i believe that the Italian or the Germans was in the last place. the survey said that "israelies are well behave and calm, trying to talk to the people in they own languge and great tipper", if i remember that right.
in israel you can find many idiots and ignorents who are living their life in a disgusting way, acting like monkeys and so on, but most of those who travel to india and those exotic places are nice clam people who love the people of the country that host them and give them the respect and the love they deserve.
just my opinion. |
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Yuli
Retired
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
1660
Posted : Sep 1, 2005 02:43
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On 2005-08-31 16:51, shahar wrote:
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On 2005-08-30 18:03, Yuli wrote:
What that even a disgusting , loud , unpleasant and arrogant human being can have good reasons for being so?
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No. That once you make an effort to understand people/a culture you can identify with/understand them/it more and then there's a better chance you would not disrespect it. I was trying to point out the importance of trying to understand the other in any meeting between human beings, individuals or communities.
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I prefer to give my sympathy to nice ppl
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I prefer to have more nice ppl.
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Shahar I understand your point. The differ between us is that u believe u can educate the world to behave in the manners that u believe are right and I mostly agree with your views about things.
It's just going too far for me.. All I need is to find the nice folk to socialize with.. Those that are on the other side as far as I am concerned can find their own company ( and they do... very easy... )
As your signature says, u still believe in change in the world - in my opinion it wont happen
A man with a "master plan" is often a woman |
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mrtdeep
Started Topics :
0
Posts :
302
Posted : Sep 1, 2005 14:06
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On 2005-08-31 22:10, Zhandaly wrote:
so one bad apple can ruin the whole basket?
the israelies are great people, but we got the bad apples too, and sometimes the world focus only on the bad apples. i dont think its your job, Shahar, to be a catagor on our on people, we got some rotten "people" (i prefer calling them animals) that make us look bad, like those who spray graffity on historical places world wide, those who talk loudly, act violently, messing up hotel rooms, etc.
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Just what all of us were trying to say............
but you always kept justifying.............
"Cause we're living in a world of RULES breaking us down when they all should let us be." |
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Cosmichowl
Started Topics :
1
Posts :
109
Posted : Sep 1, 2005 20:45
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On 2005-09-01 02:43, Yuli wrote:
Those that are on the other side as far as I am concerned can find their own company ( and they do... very easy... )
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Break on thru to the other side!!!
"Bhole Ke Saath Saare Jug Mein Naach"
"Thoughts that come our way are special ways for the subconcious mind to say Hello! get Up!" |
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cosmicrain
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
56
Posted : Sep 1, 2005 21:36
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you know people of all nations...
since im too lazy to read all comments im just waiting for someone to give a final conclusion and a judgement on israeli behaviour in bharath...
plz give an inference to these observations soon..
im waitin..
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MuSh
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
104
Posted : Sep 1, 2005 22:00
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how about those phillies? |
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The Green Channel
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
41
Posts :
1025
Posted : Sep 4, 2005 12:34
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Well I found this discussion rather terrifying, first of all I have read far too many generalizations in this debate, both from Israelis and from non-Israelis. This debate has once again proven that people judge other people, based on assumptions and personal subjective experiences.
Many of you will properly state that I don’t know the Israeli mentality and that I shouldn’t comment on subjects which are beyond my understanding.
First of all I have lived in Israel for 8 years (not involved in the trance scene, with my parents, in-between the years 1991-1999, in Rananna, Hertzeliah-Pitoah and Tel-Aviv).
Secondly, I discovered a wonderful warm population (the people that WE met), with big-hearts. In several instances the Israeli people (that we MET) where very helpful in our integration into their society. On the other-hand I also met some awful people in Israel, who laughed at my accent and thought I was Russian (as if being Russian is an excuse to laugh at one ). Furthermore we met people who tried to cut-off of my mother in the line for the teller in the supermarket, while my mother had three children with her , egoism on a extraordinary level. Luckily my mother had a strong will not be stamped upon, even though she was blond .
During my families 8 year stay in Israel we generally met beautiful people from all cultures and religions; Israeli-Muslims, Jews descending from Arab countries, European countries and the Stats. We discovered a multilateral country filled with different opinions and cultural traditions.
Like you Shahar I also enjoy traveling, if there is one thing that I have learned or empirically observed about people, its how unlike people seem from an initial point-of-view, but yet how similar they really are . I usually enjoy traveling alone, because when you travel alone you are exposed to a countries true culture and you meet three times as many people, as you would meet if you where traveling with the company of others.
This summer I was in Athens for 8 days (I actually returned four days ago and started university). What I found most remarkable about the Greek mentality is how analogous the Greek and Israeli mentalities actually are: the shouting (between friends and non- friends), the profanities (used in a friendly sense), the girls , their sense of national pride, the enthusiasm, the passion, the mothers (the food, not what they served, but the manner ), their helpfulness and much more.
In many ways I have a Danish mentality (although I’m very passionate, not to say that Danes are not passionate), when I was at the port in Piraeus (Athens), where all the fairies are leaving towards the Greek islands, there was too much shouting and stress for my liking, like in some instances in Israel.
One thing that I find rather strange is the fact that when I attend festivals, I rarely converse or find new Israeli friends, although I speak the language fluently. I’m a very extroverted and social, so I usually meet so many people that I exchange mobile-numbers with and or e-mail addresses. Sometimes with people who barely speak English, so I can’t understand why I don’t seem to meet or connect with any Israelis at festivals, though I see them everywhere (I’m quite easily able to tell whether a person is Israeli), some call me a chill-out-nerd, maybe the Israelis are always on the dance-floor and I’m always chilling , I don’t know…
Just my thoughts
Shahar please don’t ever change your signature … If Gandy got his independence with out ever fighting the Britt’s in 1948, just by being the change that he wanted to see in the world, then anything is truly possible. One person can change the world, one person can make a difference, everyone sub-consciously or consciously affects his surroundings, so be the change you want to see in the world.
"Love is a way of life"
(Gaia, Love, Nature, Shamanism (.2A.y.0a.hu.1a.sc.2a.), Terence McKenna) |
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Mat N
IsraTrance Senior Member
Started Topics :
272
Posts :
1211
Posted : Sep 4, 2005 12:57
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interesting post, the green channel , were u a son of a danish diplomat? sounds like great experience
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The Green Channel
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
41
Posts :
1025
Posted : Sep 4, 2005 13:14
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On 2005-09-04 12:57, Mat N wrote:
interesting post, the green channel , were u a son of a danish diplomat? sounds like great experience
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Nope my brother, my parents wanted an Adventure.
"Love is a way of life"
(Gaia, Love, Nature, Shamanism (.2A.y.0a.hu.1a.sc.2a.), Terence McKenna) |
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Yuli
Retired
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
1660
Posted : Sep 4, 2005 13:39
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On 2005-09-04 12:34, The Green Channel wrote:
If Gandy got his independence with out ever fighting the Britt’s in 1948, just by being the change that he wanted to see in the world, then anything is truly possible. One person can change the world, one person can make a difference, everyone sub-consciously or consciously affects his surroundings, so be the change you want to see in the world.
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This is a wonderful dream as far as I concerned. There are a few slight differences between the situations:
It was 1948 then and today is almost 60 years after, the world is in technologic frenzy and every one making money in the western world - there is ultimately no way to get to those ppl, the zombies of the western culture.
It was dun in India - in India, as probably u will hear from Hindi's, including the famous nod with the head - Everything is possible ( not always available tho... but possible ) why? Because ppl of India, as far as I got to learn, are very easily adapted to the new and unfamiliar, and they relatively much more open to changes then the western world.
It was the Britts. In case it was the Chinese for instance I do believe the situation was different ( take a look at non violent Tibet and the suffer of Tibetan ppl )
But anyway dreams are good - they make use wake up with a good sweet taste for more and eventually do good to our soul.
A man with a "master plan" is often a woman |
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The Green Channel
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
41
Posts :
1025
Posted : Sep 4, 2005 14:05
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On 2005-09-04 13:39, Yuli wrote:
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On 2005-09-04 12:34, The Green Channel wrote:
If Gandy got his independence with out ever fighting the Britt’s in 1948, just by being the change that he wanted to see in the world, then anything is truly possible. One person can change the world, one person can make a difference, everyone sub-consciously or consciously affects his surroundings, so be the change you want to see in the world.
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This is a wonderful dream as far as I concerned. There are a few slight differences between the situations:
It was 1948 then and today is almost 60 years after, the world is in technologic frenzy and every one making money in the western world - there is ultimately no way to get to those ppl, the zombies of the western culture.
It was dun in India - in India, as probably u will hear from Hindi's, including the famous nod with the head - Everything is possible ( not always available tho... but possible ) why? Because ppl of India, as far as I got to learn, are very easily adapted to the new and unfamiliar, and they relatively much more open to changes then the western world.
It was the Britts. In case it was the Chinese for instance I do believe the situation was different ( take a look at non violent Tibet and the suffer of Tibetan ppl )
But anyway dreams are good - they make use wake up with a good sweet taste for more and eventually do good to our soul.
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Thank you for your reply Yuli,
However I disagree, the fact that you mentioned Tibet as an example is false IMO. Tibet has been under Chinese rule for the last 50-55 years. That is not even a split second in world history (man has been around as we know it for at least 100.000 years), can you judge whether their method has been successful or not? Personally I’m not able to foresee the future (although I have met people who are able to foresee the future to a terrifying degree, whereas I’m only able to have a slight indication regarding the future ). Time doesn’t exist it’s an illusion.
You are right about the fact that if you believe that it’s only a dream or an ideal that anything is possible, then you will not be able to manifest your wishes or desires. You have to believe in your wish or desire to a degree that you can see and feel it happening, that’s why most people are not able to do magic (or even notice magic when it’s actually all around them ).
I have seen magic or what you my brother call “dreams” happening right in front of my eyes, both by my-self and by others. So I do believe with out a shadow of a doubt that anything is possible.
BTW have you seen waking life?
What are dreams and what is reality?
"Love is a way of life"
(Gaia, Love, Nature, Shamanism (.2A.y.0a.hu.1a.sc.2a.), Terence McKenna) |
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Yuli
Retired
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
1660
Posted : Sep 4, 2005 22:05
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On 2005-09-04 14:05, The Green Channel wrote:
BTW have you seen waking life?
What are dreams and what is reality?
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Man, I have the dream too ofcourse, for sure I would love to see change and I personally will be happy if it will happen heh.. But since I am with my both feet on the ground reality bites my lame ass every time I dream too much.
A man with a "master plan" is often a woman |
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The Green Channel
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
41
Posts :
1025
Posted : Sep 4, 2005 22:58
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On 2005-09-04 22:05, Yuli wrote:
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On 2005-09-04 14:05, The Green Channel wrote:
BTW have you seen waking life?
What are dreams and what is reality?
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Man, I have the dream too ofcourse, for sure I would love to see change and I personally will be happy if it will happen heh.. But since I am with my both feet on the ground reality bites my lame ass every time I dream too much.
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"Love is a way of life"
(Gaia, Love, Nature, Shamanism (.2A.y.0a.hu.1a.sc.2a.), Terence McKenna) |
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Vagator Vibhushan
Inactive User
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
444
Posted : Sep 4, 2005 23:55
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On 2005-08-28 14:18, Vagator Vibhushan wrote:
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Take neighbouring state, Kerala, for another example. That state, being just off the border of Goa, and as tourism friendly, could easily have poached on Goa beach party mania with its own pristne beachscapes. But no, it also dont want less money more noise people. Infact so much so that it has even announced itself no-alcohol. Can you imagine how much their aversion to Goa kind of tourism must be that while being next to a tax-free alcohol state, it announces itself teetotal? Sadly ofcouse, this is also another reason - Kerela is booming with high-profile, massage and backwater ride tourism - why Goans have now decided to follow suit.
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On 2005-08-28 14:18, shahar wrote:
I've been going to Kerala now for 8 years regualary- my observation is that Kerala has turned to rich tourism not because it doesn't want Israelis, but because it wants money. Backpackers are worth less than seasonal charter tourism. This is probably also the reason Goa turned to rich tourism. The world is becoming smaller, India becomes more modern (i.e., western) and more accessible and money buys everything. I don't think it has anything to do with the subject. You mix two different things together, as with your example about Leh. Yes, ppl will go to search for faraway, cheap unaccessible heavens that will be made more accessible and change to accomodate them and more and more people will find out about them and they will end up with the big money people- this has been happening all over the world for 40 years now- since backpacking started- these are the dynamics of tourism and has nothing to do with Israeli behaviour in particular.
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shahar, i find it surprising that you think it has nothing to do with india's new-found economic prosperity what israelis do or behave-like in India.
In you post you explained why Israelis are so self-centered, and now you are behaving your thougths. How can going to a country have nothing to do with the people, their attitudes and their mentality???
Yes, Kerela is goading Goa out of backpacker tourism, but the reason it is doing so is because Goa has learnt from Kerela's example that good fun can be had entertaining rich tourists rather than badly behaved israelis. Why cant u see this simple point? (again, backpacking in India means Israelis since statistically they are the largest bunch)
Are you saying Israelis travelling in US behave the same way they do in India? Now ofcourse I dont meant to compare the 2 countries, but just to illustrate an example.
The attitude of Israelis in India (pls, after 10 pages I think we should stop apologising for 'generalising' since by now we all know exactly what is being spoken about) is not independent of Israelis being in India; it is BECAUSE of the disregard the travelling Israelis hold Indians in.
Problem is, as I was saying, Indians, thanks to their economic prosperity (India and China have posted a GDP growth of over 8 percent in last 3 yrs; US is in veritable depression; Europe is barely growing), now have choices, and if Israelis dont behave the way other tourists do, it is only going to cause the good israeli tourists unneccesary harm, and you, especially people like you, should be doing more than defending them and saying, hahah, find it funny now, that it has nothign to do with India
helping apple pies take over the world since Damion predicted so
-psynapse.tribe.net- |
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Madpup
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
21
Posts :
174
Posted : Sep 7, 2005 00:33
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On 2005-08-31 22:10, Zhandaly wrote:
so one bad apple can ruin the whole basket?
the israelies are great people, but we got the bad apples too, and sometimes the world focus only on the bad apples. i dont think its your job, Shahar, to be a catagor on our on people, we got some rotten "people" (i prefer calling them animals) that make us look bad, like those who spray graffity on historical places world wide, those who talk loudly, act violently, messing up hotel rooms, etc.
but you will look closly, you will see that our majority, big majority is nice calm people who travel to south america and asia for the vibes and the people you find in those places, in a wide world survey we have ended in the fifth place in the most welcome travellers in the world (yeah, suprising), and i believe that the Italian or the Germans was in the last place. the survey said that "israelies are well behave and calm, trying to talk to the people in they own languge and great tipper", if i remember that right.
in israel you can find many idiots and ignorents who are living their life in a disgusting way, acting like monkeys and so on, but most of those who travel to india and those exotic places are nice clam people who love the people of the country that host them and give them the respect and the love they deserve.
just my opinion.
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I am amazed to read this post. As so many people have written here and as I have personally witnessed....it is NOT a case of several bad apples ruining the whole basket.
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