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Is there any demand for 24-bit WAV files?
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Suloo
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jan 19, 2008 20:32
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On 2008-01-19 11:04, Spindrift wrote:
I would not bother to download and store 24 bit.
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On 2008-01-18 22:06, Mtz Mtzz wrote:
and you just have to play the next track at the right time isn`t it?
so thats not really djin in my opinion..
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So do I understand correctly in your opinion track selection and transitions is not an important part of DJ'ing, and it's beatmatching that is the real skill?
no..for sure..a good choice of tracks is essential..
but it takes me about two hours to choose good tracks..but it takes up to two years in my opinion to get the fealing of time and stuff like that..to do proper beatmaching even with unknown tracks..so yer..the biggest thing about djing is beatmaching in my opinion..
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Spindrift
Spindrift
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Posted : Jan 19, 2008 21:30
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On 2008-01-19 20:32, Mtz Mtzz wrote:
no..for sure..a good choice of tracks is essential..
but it takes me about two hours to choose good tracks.. |
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So just to make sure I get this right...
You choose your tracks in advance and you call that DJ'ing?
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UnderTow
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Posted : Jan 19, 2008 21:40
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Spindrift, I thought I was supposed to be an ass around here. But I agree.
UnderTow |
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Suloo
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jan 19, 2008 22:40
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Guys...i set a whole cd case up..with different styles like darkpsy,morning fullon,Night Fullon..well known that i could play almost any track of this style section..then i actualy know my cds..
and choose right track to right time..feeling of audience etc..
and to choose tracks that i put on these cds takes me about 2-3 hours..you got that?
lets say like 20 cd for each style on wich i can choose from while djing..
this is done once in a whole and if i get new stuff i burn new copys..its way more simple to set up cds than learn how to beatmatch..do you agree?
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Spindrift
Spindrift
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Posted : Jan 20, 2008 00:40
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On 2008-01-19 21:40, UnderTow wrote:
Spindrift, I thought I was supposed to be an ass around here. But I agree.
UnderTow
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Luckily I think the database is big enough for two asses
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On 2008-01-19 22:40, Mtz Mtzz wrote:
and to choose tracks that i put on these cds takes me about 2-3 hours..you got that?
lets say like 20 cd for each style on wich i can choose from while djing..
this is done once in a whole and if i get new stuff i burn new copys..its way more simple to set up cds than learn how to beatmatch..do you agree?
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When I talk about track selection I don't mean packing CD cases.
Anyway...anyone can learn to beatmatch in far less than two years...I would say anyone who is not deaf and have at least some sense of rhythm can do it in a lot less time than two weeks.
And it's not really that important IMO, someone just doing into-outro mixes can get a better flow and more enjoyable set if they are good DJ's.
Track selection and transitions is what makes or breaks a DJ, not beatmatching.
I know a lot of ways I rather spend my time during a set than manually beatmatching.
It doesn't add anything to the end result, but adding loops and fx, doing processing or just having more time for track selection and transitions does.
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OhmLine
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Posted : Jan 20, 2008 03:24
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The real thing with Audio quality is not the word length, as mentioned before, it gives you more dynamic range - which is very good for lots of uses (like for the mastering engineer who needs headroom to operate, mixing down a multi tracked project is another example of 24/32 bit being better option as it's harder to clip).
The real deal with sound quality is the sampling rate, I think if any, there should be a shift of the market, and me, and you (together with 24bit etc) toward higher sampling frequencies, that'll be the next stage of sound quality. (of course straight after analog  )
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UnderTow
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Posted : Jan 20, 2008 04:41
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Argh! Sampling rates determine audio bandwidth. Not sound quality!
UnderTow |
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Trip-
IsraTrance Team
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Posted : Jan 20, 2008 10:26
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On 2008-01-20 04:41, UnderTow wrote:
Argh! Sampling rates determine audio bandwidth. Not sound quality!
UnderTow
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Exactly
OhmLine, you could have a reading about why you don't really need to sample above 96khz, or even 88khz.
http://www.lavryengineering.com/documents/Sampling_Theory.pdf
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Suloo
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jan 20, 2008 12:25
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Quote:
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On 2008-01-20 00:40, Spindrift wrote:
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On 2008-01-19 21:40, UnderTow wrote:
Spindrift, I thought I was supposed to be an ass around here. But I agree.
UnderTow
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Luckily I think the database is big enough for two asses
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On 2008-01-19 22:40, Mtz Mtzz wrote:
and to choose tracks that i put on these cds takes me about 2-3 hours..you got that?
lets say like 20 cd for each style on wich i can choose from while djing..
this is done once in a whole and if i get new stuff i burn new copys..its way more simple to set up cds than learn how to beatmatch..do you agree?
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When I talk about track selection I don't mean packing CD cases.
Anyway...anyone can learn to beatmatch in far less than two years...I would say anyone who is not deaf and have at least some sense of rhythm can do it in a lot less time than two weeks.
And it's not really that important IMO, someone just doing into-outro mixes can get a better flow and more enjoyable set if they are good DJ's.
Track selection and transitions is what makes or breaks a DJ, not beatmatching.
I know a lot of ways I rather spend my time during a set than manually beatmatching.
It doesn't add anything to the end result, but adding loops and fx, doing processing or just having more time for track selection and transitions does.
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Different opinions like that will never find an end..so i`m out..
enjoy!
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acidkills
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Jan 20, 2008 14:33
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On 2008-01-18 21:21, Mtz Mtzz wrote:
i agree with mubali..and even wonder why cd is still so popular..i mean..a dvd can go up to 24 bit 96khz in stereo..so why do we still use cds instead of dvds..like i do not if the new pioneers can play dvds but that would be a logical step i think..greez
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So can I actually record my music in 24bit 96kHz stereo and play it on normal dvd player? How long can be that DVD, I mean whats the maximum time of all the tracks at that quality?
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OhmLine
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Posted : Jan 20, 2008 15:51
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Undertow and Trip, I know that 
I also know that we can hear up to 20,000Hz (the upper limit of 44.1 sampling rate). Now, if you'll agree with me the analogue is better (just because it has infinite amount of values at any given moment) we're on the right track. As you probably know, in the upper parts of the spectrum, there can easily be a situation where certain wavelengths will be represented by only 2 or 3 sampling points making their re-creation not as accurate as it can be. Why not sample more points along the wavelength (say 88.2, which is the sampling rate I like to work with), you just get more dense sound, that's all.
When I was studying I played with Pro Tools Icon console at my school, I've recorded through the same session at 48, 96 and 192KHz - must say the 96 sounds better, very "thick" and solid. The 192 sounded even better but not as much difference as between the 96 and the 48 - guess our ears has their limits.
Also, take DVD-A or SACD and compare it with normal CD. I believe you'll hear the difference.
Basically what I was trying to say here is: leave the ability to sample 40,000Hz - I don't care about that. What I do care about is sampling the 12,000Hz wavelength not on 3 or 4 points along the wave cycle but on 6 or 8 points, it just makes the re-creation of the wave more accurate = betta sound quality.
In my (humble) opinion, we should start migrating to 88.2/96KHz, it just sounds better
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acidkills
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Jan 20, 2008 16:19
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On 2008-01-20 15:51, OhmLine wrote:
In my (humble) opinion, we should start migrating to 88.2/96KHz, it just sounds better
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Yeah its good opinion, its only I have problems recording on high sample rates.. And that shouldnt be a problem since my card should be able to record at over 100000 sample rate and at 192kHz
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OhmLine
Started Topics :
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Posted : Jan 20, 2008 16:44
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what seems to be the problem ? are you getting any specific error messages ? please feel free to PM and tell me in greater detail if you wish.
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UnderTow
Started Topics :
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Posted : Jan 20, 2008 17:19
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OhmLine,
You really need to go and read the link that Trip posted. Digial Audio does NOT work the way you think it does.
You could also look at my posts in this thread: http://www.gearslutz.com/board/mastering-forum/142846-truth-metering.html
There are nice pictures and stuff.
The easiest analogy for all this is a circle (after all, a sine wave is simply a circle drawn out over time). You only need TWO points to perfectly define a circle. Adding any points will not in any way define the circle any better than just using two points.
192Khz is pure marketing spin.
Btw, the reason for SACD and DSD (besides the fact that the patent on CD was running out and Sony want to make money) was issues with linearity in old PCM converters. Modern oversampling multi-bit converters have addressed those issues. There really is no need for SACD or DSD any more.
In case you didn''t know, modern converters all sample at very hi rates. 2.8Mhz up to 5.6Mhz! The resulting data is then decimated down to the relevant base rate. (44.1/48/88.2/96/etc).
Feel free to ask any questions if anything is unclear.
UnderTow
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Upavas
Upavas
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Posted : Jan 20, 2008 20:45
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Boy, that thread is made for Undertow...
bit has only got to do with dynamic range, 24 bit means 24 0's and 1's are used to describe a wav file. In the movie industry today mostly 24 bit is used with 48 khz sampling rate. Some use 96 bit, but mostly 48 bit is standard.
As far as trance music is concerned, yes, there is little dynamic range, even though you free up a little more space by sidechaining bass and kick against each other. I have tried a test as well and unlike Undertow I could most definitely hear a difference.
As far as hearing up to 20 khz is concerned, a newborn baby might be able to hear that. Us Psyheads can be lucky if we can hear 18khz... 17khz is probably more likely...
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