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Is there any demand for 24-bit WAV files?
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Suloo
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
87
Posts :
2822
Posted : Jan 19, 2008 06:31
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On 2008-01-19 06:11, Elad wrote:
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On 2008-01-18 22:44, full_on wrote:
I'm with Mtz Mtzz. Of course, I can use Ableton, but don't tell me you're a DJ if you can't beatmatch and mix on CDJs and mixer.
Respect!
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he he psyjokes
where did my vinyl disapear
anywayz i will tell this : anyone that have the vision of mixing and the tool to make us listen to what on his mind as well to change it acording to the dancefloor is great dj , wheather its on ableton cdj or couple of usb disks as far i care...
the only issue i have is that i hear ableton sound quality right after winamp and it sound worse. if anyone can help fix that i will sort my live act fully finnaly (no HQ tips please , it still sux , tried last the 6 tho.. is 7 any better?)
on the topic , 24 bit is great for live acts and the one small benefit with todays spacebar live , but normal audience dont need it as long the standart is not DVDA
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For me..Live 7 is the way to go..it sounds better to my ears then Live6..but i`ve heard somewhere in Live Forum that even Depeche Mode has performed their sets infron of 10000 people with Live6..so i even believe thats just a matter of how to tweak it right and maybe to avoid warping..
and to the Topic..i think if you play a life set with 24 bit ..next to mp3 djs the audience will hear the difference..
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Spindrift
Spindrift
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1560
Posted : Jan 19, 2008 11:04
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I would not bother to download and store 24 bit.
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On 2008-01-18 22:06, Mtz Mtzz wrote:
and you just have to play the next track at the right time isn`t it?
so thats not really djin in my opinion..
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So do I understand correctly in your opinion track selection and transitions is not an important part of DJ'ing, and it's beatmatching that is the real skill?
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On 2008-01-19 06:11, Elad wrote:
the only issue i have is that i hear ableton sound quality right after winamp and it sound worse. if anyone can help fix that i will sort my live act fully finnaly (no HQ tips please , it still sux , tried last the 6 tho.. is 7 any better?) |
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If you are stretching tracks of course there will be a degradation. Choosing the right mode can make it sound a bit better.
Re-pitch is the most transparent.
Live 7 has a reworked 64 bit engine and does sound better, but I doubt you will notice the difference if you play one or two tracks simultaneously, but when mixing many tracks together the difference is noticeable.
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vegetal
Vegetal/Peacespect
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19
Posts :
1055
Posted : Jan 19, 2008 13:09
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On 2008-01-19 02:37, UnderTow wrote:
The choice was not based on sound quality. 32 bit is a floating point format. Modern CPUs are much much faster at doing floating point calculations compared to fixed point calculation. Running at 32 bit is _faster_ than running at 24 bits! Disk space is cheap. Processing speed still isn't quite and certainly wasn't when modern computer based DAWs started.
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Umm what? floating points will always take more more time to calculate than a fixed-point arithmetic.
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On 2008-01-18 20:24, mubali wrote:
when I play live, I notice a sound differential when playing 16 vs 24 or even 32...
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32? 32 bit audio doesn't have more resolution than 24 bits.
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Not more resolution?
2^32= 4294967296
2^24= 16777216
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UnderTow
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
1448
Posted : Jan 19, 2008 13:27
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On 2008-01-19 13:09, vegetal wrote:
Umm what? floating points will always take more more time to calculate than a fixed-point arithmetic.
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Not with dedicated floating point units in SSE.
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Not more resolution?
2^32= 4294967296
2^24= 16777216
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32 bit has a 24 bit mantissa and an 8 bit exponent.
UnderTow |
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Spindrift
Spindrift
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1560
Posted : Jan 19, 2008 13:29
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On 2008-01-19 13:09, vegetal wrote:
Not more resolution?
2^32= 4294967296
2^24= 16777216
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I'm not aware of any 32 bit fixed formats, and with 32 bit float the mantissa, which is the values that is actual measurements of the signal, is 24 bits.
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Mike A
Subra
Started Topics :
185
Posts :
3954
Posted : Jan 19, 2008 13:51
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24 may sound better when playing live because of the processing applied to it when playing live.
other than that, i don't see any point in 24bit wav files. at least not in the coming years, until bandwidth/storage/etc gets much much better.
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vegetal
Vegetal/Peacespect
Started Topics :
19
Posts :
1055
Posted : Jan 19, 2008 14:08
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UnderTow
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
1448
Posted : Jan 19, 2008 14:22
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On 2008-01-19 14:08, vegetal wrote:
Reference? benchmarks?
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Ever heard of Google? Do your own homework. 
UnderTow |
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vegetal
Vegetal/Peacespect
Started Topics :
19
Posts :
1055
Posted : Jan 19, 2008 14:33
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On 2008-01-19 14:22, UnderTow wrote:
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On 2008-01-19 14:08, vegetal wrote:
Reference? benchmarks?
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Ever heard of Google? Do your own homework.
UnderTow
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Well considering that all my litterature i´ve read and on the float vs int calculation they all claim that float takes more time.
And i tried this "google"-thing and they claim the same  , so where did you find your information?
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UnderTow
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
1448
Posted : Jan 19, 2008 15:15
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On 2008-01-19 14:33, vegetal wrote:
Well considering that all my litterature i´ve read and on the float vs int calculation they all claim that float takes more time.
And i tried this "google"-thing and they claim the same , so where did you find your information?
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What are you comparing? INT16 operations? (most benchmarks) And are you taking into account the fact that the INT calculations units will be doing many things for the OS and applications while the FP units will be doing nearly only audio operations?
Anyway, I'm sharing what I have learned over the years. I know for a fact that FP was chosen for processing reasons and not audio reasons. If you want to believe that 32 bit sounds better than 24 bits, have fun. Ignorance is bliss.
I suggest you start using 64 bit audio files for DJing. You never know, it might help. 
UnderTow |
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vegetal
Vegetal/Peacespect
Started Topics :
19
Posts :
1055
Posted : Jan 19, 2008 15:57
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On 2008-01-19 15:15, UnderTow wrote:
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What are you comparing? INT16 operations? (most benchmarks) And are you taking into account the fact that the INT calculations units will be doing many things for the OS and applications while the FP units will be doing nearly only audio operations?
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Im talking in general about the int vs fp.
Let me quote from the book "digital signal processing" by Steven W Smith, he claims that -Fixed point arithmetic is much faster than floating point in general purpose computers.
I also found a similar statement on wikki but i can´t seem to find it now.
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Anyway, I'm sharing what I have learned over the years. I know for a fact that FP was chosen for processing reasons and not audio reasons. If you want to believe that 32 bit sounds better than 24 bits, have fun. Ignorance is bliss.
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I think you your mixing people up, i never claimed 32bits to sound "better".
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I suggest you start using 64 bit audio files for DJing. You never know, it might help.
UnderTow
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I suggest you to stop being an ass
Demand recognition for the Armenian genocide 1915
http://www.devilsmindrecords.org/
http://www.myspace.com/vegetalmusic
http://www.checkpoint-music.com/ |
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UnderTow
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
1448
Posted : Jan 19, 2008 16:39
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On 2008-01-19 15:57, vegetal wrote:
Im talking in general about the int vs fp.
Let me quote from the book "digital signal processing" by Steven W Smith, he claims that -Fixed point arithmetic is much faster than floating point in general purpose computers.
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I thought you were going to quote.
Anyway, as I wrote before, integer operations are used for many things. The Floating point units are more or less dedicated to audio. (Unless you have all sorts of other applications running at the same time but that's another story).
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I think you your mixing people up, i never claimed 32bits to sound "better".
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Indeed but this comment made me think you believed it was better:
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Not more resolution?
2^32= 4294967296
2^24= 16777216
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This comment also makes me believe you might want to reread that book you mention... ;-P
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I suggest you to stop being an ass
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Hey I'm Loki, the God of Mischief. It is in my nature. ;-P
UnderTow |
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vegetal
Vegetal/Peacespect
Started Topics :
19
Posts :
1055
Posted : Jan 19, 2008 16:46
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I think you your mixing people up, i never claimed 32bits to sound "better".
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Indeed but this comment made me think you believed it was better:
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Not more resolution?
2^32= 4294967296
2^24= 16777216
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This comment also makes me believe you might want to reread that book you mention... ;-P
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Nop that comment just reminds me of not discussing while hungover and with low bloodsugar levels ;P
Demand recognition for the Armenian genocide 1915
http://www.devilsmindrecords.org/
http://www.myspace.com/vegetalmusic
http://www.checkpoint-music.com/ |
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Colin OOOD
Moderator
Started Topics :
95
Posts :
5380
Posted : Jan 19, 2008 17:06
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neuromantik
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
28
Posts :
593
Posted : Jan 19, 2008 19:59
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All of you guys are wrong!! Clean out your ears, everyone knows that you need minimum 128bit audio to "properly" convey the subtle nuances of an artist's music  lol
Why haven't you heard Spiritual Antiseptic in 192khz/128 bit audio? I takes up a whole 1.5GB but damn you don't know what you're missing
</sarcasm>
ps. I'm with undertow on this one, placebo is a cruel mistress |
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