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How much you get (or pay) for play at the chill area???
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nanda
Started Topics :
1
Posts :
20
Posted : Sep 7, 2005 14:23
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Always have been curious...
-How much $ you get (charge) for play in at the chill area?? you have a minimum?
-How much money the trance parties invest for pay to Down Beat DJs v/s Live acts???
-How much money you can get in a small club/Bar/Pub/Restaurant????
-Its there an standard regarding DJs and Live Acts??...
-Its the "chill scene" getting into politics???
-Why some Down Beat DJs (just as an example) get different amount of money... than other DB DJ in the same party??
-Why Live Acts (good projects) have to play as DJ set as well.. and get more money than anybody else.. when their DJ set sucks????
-Why some artists play for free and other get BIG amounts of money?
-When is that you are getting famous.. or expensive?? experience or good marketing?.. ah! are you friend of the main organizer?
-Why some people called "artists" get paid flights and acommodation.. Internacionals or Star complex?
-How many Artists survive "only" playing around??? its possible???
-How much money you invest for buy music??? is worth it the money you get for each gig??
-you update your self regarding the scene??? how?
-who are the DB scene? psy Chill?
-Who rules the scene??? you?
Already many questions and i can write many more..
personally i do survive playing as DJ.. and i am fare.
as example: last summer wanted to play at Sonica and i try to get in touch with the main organizers.. to check how they like my demo and check if there ware possibities to play.. the said to me that they really like my demo but that i were to expensive for them.. then me wondering .. how i could be expensive when you even didnt ask me how much I do charge? then they ask. how much do you charge? i've said normally for International festivals only 200€ plus transportation and acomodation.. then.. they have said.. thats it was to much for them.. that they will check and that they will come back to me. nothing and i had to call them again bcz i needed to organize flights and so on.. from Croatia.. then they confirmed saying that they could only pay 200€ and noting more.... Me happy already bcz i thought that it could be great scenerio to where to promote our tunes and sure!!! I'll do it!..
Then my summer started and i had to play in many other places b4 that.. very simples and no so much money either but me with the summer mission.. doing my work at best-- even i've arranged everything for make possible Italy.. flights and transportation from the airport.. Very wyse of me indeed.. but suddenly.. once i have arrived i realized that they forgot to put me in the line up.. means.. every person ware getting some paper with the line up . and ofcourse.. friends and family will never realise that "me" (and my ego) where not on that paper.. then very sad i went to i speak to the "stage manager of the chill" and he "oh!, yah.. sorry we forgot to put you on the line up".. me yah.. so.. i am playing or not?.. "yes.. we have another lineup already.. then you are playing... 23hrs on friday".. me super shocked.. WHAT??? friday night ??? i felt terrible bcz the music i play is day time and ofcourse.. friday night non of my friends will be there.. i thought that sending my demo they could organize line up and so on.. but i saw that it was such a mess.. that better i do not complain.. So with a big smile in my face i say "OK" .. and very deep in me "at last i can make party with my friends after my set"... so he left and me.. oh no.. not food tickets or drinks???.. then i had to apy from my own money.. all that.. but.. again me with a big smile.
i went to the Chill area.. which one was in a totally.. weird arrangement -- Big Stage.. huge Sound system.. and yah.. basically no deko and the tend where the people could seat.. far from the DJ.. in the darkness .. then all very .. VERY unpersonal. so unfinished... but what to do?...
I know that people never complain so much about Chill Areas.. so i didnt want to be the crampy girl again.. . better shut my mouse.
Friday night and i came early to check the DJ b4 me.. and there the DJ ware playig psy beats and:. yah.. feeling already a beat heavy the mission but my smile ware there.. strong and feeling that at last it could be good mission after him (nanda keeping possitive). so i started. and yah.. i couldnt see anything.. no reaction of the people or so. people in charge of the chill ware doing lines behind me and "nanda you want?"... me what? no (lady style) thanx!. then alone again... but i had to check with the guys of the sound system if my music was ok.. and yah... thump up!.. cool.. so.. like this.. very blind.. i have done.. and ofcourse.. i enjoyed the party. but you think somebody came to tell me "nanda thankx for coming.. nice set or so"... NO... NOTHING!!!°!
So me on tuesday i had to leave and on monday i didnt found anybody from the organization for get my money and try to arrange a car to Roma for not miss my flight(next day).. but not possible .. no body available- so.. getting a bit stresss... i start to look for a lift and so on.. then.. it was already late.. people in after party mood and who knew?... feeling shit and was still looking for somebody with who get my money from and yah.. the lift to Rome....
Resumen: i lost my flight, i had to arrange another flight for teh day after. and ofcourse.. who cares????
next day.. i land in Hamburg where the organizer whare waiting for me in the airport.. brought me to a nice place where i could sleep and stay till after the fest.... my set was on saturday morning. very nice time. nice people.. and ofcourse even when the party was a totaly catastrophe (only 200ppl. paid) they paid my gig and gave me a lift to the airport...
so what i can say.. Sonica was great festival.. and sure i had loads of fun.. but i had a mission... i went for that mission and ofcourse.. i did Great. and i know.. tthat no body really care.. when in teh beginning i was a expensive one.. in the end they gave me less attention than a local one.. but i am not pissed off or so.. just making a point--- and comparing the vibe from the other one in Germany or even better.. the one b4 in Croatia.. WOWOWOW!!!!!! such good vibe and cuality organizers.. the truth.. i preffer to play in small party.. even when.. some times the money in big festivals can be good.. i still like the personal.. connection.. with ppl.. basically have invited to you.. with their heart and they treat you.. as a normal person or at last as a guest..
keep in tune
Nanda
(Chillosophy Music / Interchill Rec.)
Sweden |
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Michael H
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
69
Posted : Sep 7, 2005 15:14
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hello Nanda...thank you for posting that letter..so to answer some of your questions...
i get paid from £20-50 a set ranging from 2-4 hours,sometimes i don't get paid anything,sometimes i get travel expenses..
when dealing with most promoters they tell me "we don't have much of a budget for the
chill area" and i have also been toldthis is the reason why they double-book trance acts/ dj's as ambient dj's..
i find it very unfare that ambient d.j.s are treated differently to the 'live acts and big names'(who,most of time,when i hear them play i find quite boring and monotonous)..
we deserve to be payed and treated fairly and without a doubt ambient/chill spaces are just as important at parties as the dance areas..
it seems that with the big party organisations;the promoters are too busy falling over themselves to try and book/look after all the 'hot' names/acts and in the process they completely ignore/forget about other areas/dj's/crew...
they also know that ambient djs,vjs,decor artistes,performers are trying so hard to make their name,doing what they love that a lot of the time they will do it for virtually nothing...
i think the live act scene is a bit of a joke...there have only been two occasions that i've been totally blown away by a live act..they have no idea how to create a vibe or carry a party like a d.j. can,when the live act is on it's all about them,not the party and the party suffers for it,they take up majority of the budget,some of them are quite arrogant and rude.
i'm lucky to have mostly a lot of very nice comments about my djing so when i'm asked to play at party where people are paying 10-20 euros and told "well we can pay you cos the chillout doesnt have a budget" i normally tell them "thanks but no thanks" unless there is some kind of fair energy exchange.
yes i prefer the smaller parties and the ones that are more about the parties than who is playing music at them.. |
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Rui Ferreira
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
43
Posts :
744
Posted : Sep 7, 2005 17:02
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...hello nanda, i am a bit shocked with what happened with you @ sonica festival, because you have been promoting the chillout scene for quite a while and people like you should have a special treatment, or at least be respected by any party, festival, promoter of whatever they are promoting. i had some bad experiences also with some people who call themselves promoters here in Portugal, such as paying much less than what we had arrenged before on the phone, not providing us with the minimum to our confort, and so on...well me and a friend did promote some events here in Portugal as well, and with very respected names in the uk dub scene, such as Zion Train, Rootsman, Vibronics & Jah Free..., and we never thought of promoting such things if we didn't had guarantee the cash for the artists and all the confort they deserve, even if the things would went bad for our side...this is the risk that any "professional" promoter as to deal with. Unfortunatly many people behind the scene only want the profits, and doesn't really car about the artists, and decide to promote big partys and festivals, wich is nice, but don't have any background and don't are prepared to do it as it should be done...hope it change as quick as possible for the goodthake of the scene
well related with cash, normally @ the bar where i have my residence here in Lisbon (Etílico Bar @ Bairro Alto) i recieve €40 each night, wich is not much, but not short also, and afterall is the bar wich gave me the opportunity to chill in the downtown of my city  ...when i am playing in private partys or big events, wich is not very often unfortunatly, i get paid a bit more, wich can go between €50 up to €200 wich migth include a small soundsystem with sampler, effects, and some instruments i have...actually and since the beggining, i spend much more money in music, than what i recieve with it, because i allways love music and i am a collector since the very start...That's it
Good luck to all of the music lovers around the globe  |
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randulon
Started Topics :
6
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143
Posted : Sep 7, 2005 17:47
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i have never been paid cash although i have been paid travel expenses, and i spend tons of money on music...i don't mind as the thrill of paying your favourite music to likeminded souls is immense, esp. if it's stuff they won't have heard before ...having said that i would love to be paid to dj as i could perhaps make a living from it if i worked hard enough and i wouldn't have to spin out about getting a job in the real world... |
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PKS
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
75
Posts :
490
Posted : Sep 7, 2005 18:27
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Hello Nanda!
Interesting reading...
I can not live of my djing, and I'm not sure I would like to either. I love to travel and play music, but I also like to have a stable life and a base. Too much travelling could be too much for me... About payment, it varies from place to place. If you become a resident in the most trendy chill cafe in your town, I guess you could earn some money though... On festival, payment depends on how famous you are...
About Sonica. I played there too and it was a great festival! But. These guys had never organised a festival before. That's why they were so unprofessional. To be honest, I was really mad at them the day the festival started. I was never asked when I wanted to play, and when I saw the time I had got, I tried to e-mail them without getting any answer. I had to leave the festival earlier, that's why I didn't want to play monday morning. And I don't like to play 5 in the morning anyway. I usually sleep at that time... The result was that I had to run out of the festival right after finishing... I hate stress...
When I arrived the festival, I didn't get food/drink tickets or card. That should have been ready... I think I was at the entrance 10 times before I got it. But, when I got it, I got the payment and everything... Good. The organisers were doing absolutely everything by themself!! It was crazy watching them. When I came down there,one of the main organisers were selling tickets in the entrance! I have never seen anyone that stressed before. When I said hello to the main organiser, he didn't even look at me... I felt sorry for them, but they should have hired some more people... They are not supermen... I have forgiven them because it was their first festival, so... But, they still have a lot to learn...
I also played at the Voov Experience (booked by Nanda) and the Full Moon Festival in Germany this summer. I have to say, Voov is absolutely the best organised festival I have been to. Too bad the chill artists doesn't get much payment or anything at all, but there you get treated well, just like the artists on the main/progressive stage. Voov has over ten years of experience, so I guess that's part of the reason. Germans in general are known for being well organised. I was well treated in Full Moon too, but the chill out stage doesn't get much support from the main organisers, which results in way too much work for Fish and his crew, which often results in confusion and missunderstandings.
Well, after playing at these "big" festivals, I have realised how really small this scene is. Try compare it to a rock festival, and you will understand what I mean...
 CHILL TRIBE
CTRCD01 QUALITY RELAXATION
CTRCD02 RELAXED JOURNEYS
CTRCD03 EAR PLEASURE
CTRCD04 WOMBATMUSIC - Shameful Silence
CTRCD05 POLYPLOID - Grow Your Own
CTRCD06 IAN ION - Gringo Locomotion
CTRCD07 SUNKINGS - Before We Die |
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droozi
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
402
Posted : Sep 7, 2005 19:21
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I have played only at one festival and since it was local - i did not make sense to ask for payment or travel expenses really - but the organizers (TDC) were nice enough to let my girlfriend in for free - which in it self meant a lot cause the tickets to the place were festival priced so it was definetly a bonus specially for an unknown dj like myself. The fact that I got to play at the festival and enjoy the festival itself was payment enough for me - i wouldnt try to make a living out of djing - i guess the likes of simon posford etc can afford to do that but not me - personally i am just happy playing in a festival and gettinig a chance to play what i consider as chillout in a scenic surrounding - a place where this music should be listened to. I hope you have more luck next time nanda - your track selection is so good and I do beleive that your name alone does have the pull to cause people to come to a festival - but that said chill out music in a whole really is not as crowd pulling as full on is for trance festivals. I agree with PKS as to trying to get a gig as a resident dj in a local high end lounge or something - those usually pay around 100-200 euro from what i have heard - which is not enough to live of - but its good CD buying money. |
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brij
Started Topics :
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204
Posted : Sep 7, 2005 19:45
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Sounds like a bit of a nightmare in Italy for you Nanda, but I don't think that is about you being a chill DJ, rather that it was badly organised.
Promoters seem to spend the vast majority of their budget on the trance area, and then think about the chillout afterwards. As a result, I believe the quality of the music suffers.
This causes a self-perpetuating cycle. i.e the music if not very interesting, thus promoters believe that chillout music is dull, and offers little to the partygoer, other than a place to rest. Thus there is no point the promoter spending money for no return. Thus often little effort is put into the chillout. This makes it difficult for chill DJs to motivate themselves to put in maximum effort for their sets continuing the cycle.
I have been well paid for 1.5 hour sets before, and so I put in lots of preparation, knowing that the effort would be appreciated. I am not going to put in that same amount of effort for a 4 or 5 hour set,for which I am not being paid.
If the largest psyfestivals in the world cannot afford to pay their artists, then it certainly says something about the scene. That is the problem with many psyfestivals, the promoters do not organise trance festivals like a business (Glade festival, UK I believe to be an exception), which is crazy, given the substantial
budgets involved. I would like to one day organise a festival, but not until I get myself some proper business experience.
However, the chillout area could be much more than it often is. I went to the Voov a couple of years ago and heard some excellent sets in the chill. However, given the size of the event, I was pretty shocked to see a small circus tent, from which, during the quiet moments, you could hear the trance stages, making the chill feel like an afterthought. At Morocco2001 (Nanda, I think maybe you were also working there) the chill was long way from the dancefloor, which made it feel like it was part of the planning, rather than an afterthought. Unless promoters decide to make the chillout a bigger priority, the chill out DJ will forever be considered a second-class DJ.
I certainly could not support myself solely by DJing, and I probably would not enjoy it so much. I use the money I get to subsidise the moeny I spend on cds. I agree that small parties are much better, because you find genuine promoters, who are not in it solely (or at all) for the money.....however, there is no reason why this cannot also happen at a large, well organised festival.
www.BarakaRecords.com/brij.htm
www.myspace.com/djbrij |
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John
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
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768
Posted : Sep 7, 2005 20:15
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I cannot comment about Sonica - but overall chillout Djs dont get paid as much as main stage Djs mainly down to supply and demand.
If lots of a crowd starting going to party just for the chillout DJs/act or even for the chillout area as a whole - then promoters would be forced to pay accordingly. Although personally I, and presumeably many who post on here, pay more attention to chillout line ups than the main stage line ups - we're very much in the minority. Its the big "names" that attract the paying party goers, and so they're the ones that get paid.
BTW I dont think I've yet come across ANY chillout DJ who can support themselves financially from playing - and I'd be surpised if even any of the well known recording artists make much of a living out of it.
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blueOrb
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
100
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1698
Posted : Sep 7, 2005 21:05
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nanda
Started Topics :
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20
Posted : Sep 7, 2005 21:25
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Dear John.. Dear Familia!
I do support myself financially from playing.. in other words... I do survive as CHILL (down beat) DJ and yes.. its possible !!!!!. its hard work indeed. but its true as well.. that i do not play only in the trance scene (or in this case psychill at ALL) bcz i am very tired of the ego-manypolitics and ofcourse unproessional way to behave with people (specially dealing with you as "baby" bcz you are a girl? aló???????) or bcz you are not the main atraction and then less than 126bpm human being?.. hehehe!!. Musically wyse.. i am also very tired of this shpongle effect that make to all the called "DJs" play that kind of music:.: one after another one..
then.. ofcourse i WONT play shpongle (and i didnt till now)
bcz are already more than one billion DJs that they play so why to play the same things?... so then i have to update my music.. frecuently.. and sure... not cheap or easy.. but i do.. and i think it deppends how much you do believe in the passion of Chill the scene .. and please.. i am not talking only with music.
I have created a very nice network based in Bar's, Restaurants, Small clubs.. Special events or my owns chillegal projects and yes.. even in Jazz Clubs. Different countries and yes.. every deal is differennt and ofcourse possible they never hold such amount of people like trance parties does.. then ofcourse the price and the deal can be totally different and that is the "pro" from very human.. that they like from me bcz i am real.. and i never ask for more than they use to play... for DJs or so. obvously.. if is a very special event where.. its all "hiper" style.. sure.. i charge by our and i get paid.... zero complins.. lots of smiles and sure.. further invitations.. i believe as well.. is the way you work.. how much energy and so..
i want to say that i didnt have such a nightmare @ Sonica.. i kind of new that it could happend. I've used it as example... bcz its not the first time.. and yes.. i also recognize from the words of PKS that it have been a very hard mission to organize de Chil area @ Voov (in case that you didnt know.. i do Organize the Chill area since 2002) and yes.. with that i do the line up and so... but because its not my festival.. some times its a bit hard to get some things better. b4 i came to work at voov, the Chill wasnt where is today and basically super far and:.: no chill spirit at all.. nobody went or knew where it was.. etc. now the main organizers have seen loads of new things with our work by the years and yes.. as PKS say.. we doit with LOVE. soon we will be bable to pay at last the transportation cost for artists... its hard that point when .. as i am saying i do survive from every gig.. then i put the hand in my heart .. I will do all my best to make it real. but always i will try to make you feel comfortable. there are many artists just coming for pasion or love for the msic. so:: a good sound system.. a lovely team.. i think it have been paying the passion but not the gasoline... we are working hard.. and yes.. next year its a biggest mission 15th years of Voov... and ofcourse.. news about it soon... (hahhaa... ia good promoting it  )
manywaves..
the reason of this post its basically.. to be open regarding our:: work. bcz.. we have the rights to be respected and sure if a promoter invite you.. why doesnt treat you.. good? i really dont understand but ofcourse there is another fractal topic.. i dont want to go through.. Drugs. so yah..
we are free to do and be how we want... but please.. do it with love.
One LOvE
Nanda |
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John
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
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768
Posted : Sep 7, 2005 21:37
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Nanda
keep up the good work -- if you can make a living from doing what you love - you're doing better than most people!
Interesting about the sexism aspect - I must admit I've been quite surpised by the amount of open sexism shown on this forum board (though thankfully not in the chillout bit) which often isnt far off Beavis & Butthead - and maybe this reflects diffirent attitudes in different countries. As man its harder to comment about what how hard a time female Djs have in the UK - no doubt just as hard but maybe its just not acceptable to be so open about it?? |
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pete
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
32
Posts :
534
Posted : Sep 8, 2005 01:17
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a few comments-
I sympathize with the view that organizers respond to supply and demand, financially speaking. Paying the same amount to artists that have 9000 people to artists that have 200 people reacting makes little sense. However, treating the areas and artists with the same amount of RESPECT, and deco, is something I consider to be very important. Aside from common courtesy, the chill area is (imo) very important to the overall spirit and experience of a party. Even at parties where I haven't even gone to the chill area (rare, when one exists) knowing that I *could* go there changes my experience for the better. I totally agree that it is self-perpetuating, even when promoter gives 0% and artists give 100%, if there is no deco, crappy sound, no place to lay down, no chill vibe, partygoers won't care about the chill.
I went to Voov this year for my first festival experience, and was generally quite pleased with the chill area. I was quite surprised at how little the sound bled in given the proximity of the chill area to the alt/main stages-not a hike, and you could hear the chill-kinda like having your cake and eating it too! The deco around the dj was quite nice, and it was overall a great,great place to, well, chill... I look forward to returning next year!
I personally would really love see a chillout weekly or monthly. In places with an established psy community, it would be a nice opportunity for the freaks to gather and socialize while still enjoying some psychedelic music. I unfortunately was unable to catch the ambient alchemy tour, but more events like that would be great as well, though those artists should of course be linked more to the psy parties than separated from it.
I could never make a living from dj'ing, but it would be so nice to just get a smidgen of money so that this little hobby/passion/obsession would come close to paying for itself.
Best of luck with Voov!
-pete |
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patty on Hydro
Started Topics :
2
Posts :
81
Posted : Sep 8, 2005 05:30
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hey nanda
thanx to you and your team for the great job on the voov.it was deffently the best chill area on the whole big festivals around europe!i really hope you get the respect you deserve for it.and i also hope you dont give up to support chill...for the german chill scene you did allot.all the best for the future
www.myspace.com/mindwavesrecordings
www.noise-poison.com, www.parvati-records.com
bOOm |
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Justin Chaos
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
117
Posts :
3086
Posted : Sep 9, 2005 16:40
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Well...I should consider myself very lucky then.
My fake plants died, because I did not pretend to water them. |
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Michael H
Started Topics :
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69
Posted : Sep 9, 2005 19:09
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yep the chill area at Voov was the best i've ever seen and to d.j. there was such a pleasure. the Voov arranged my transportation to the airport before and after the party and i was given free accomadation,food and drink throughout so this, for me was a very fair energy exchange.
music;yes a lot of the chill music sounds the same..too much shpongle/entheogenic
and too much beat-beat-beat music
it's meant to be chill-room,not a disco
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