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How come mixed cds don`t sell in our scene??

robomarket
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  35
Posts :  970
Posted : Mar 13, 2004 23:11
Quote:

On 2004-03-13 22:15, Mike A wrote:
I won't buy mixed cd's, I want to hear a track from the beginning to the end without any other tracks coming through




very, very true.
to me, psytrance track is like a movie. in the beggining things start to develop, then there is tension, then...more tension...and then BOOM- culmination.
imagine yourself watching only one part of a movie. there is no point at all
Dovla
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  43
Posts :  748
Posted : Mar 13, 2004 23:12
Quote:

On 2004-03-13 17:16, Cyzum wrote:
I gotta disagree with you again.

A good dj can mix any style - psytrance, dub, techno, house - whatever.

Just needs to be done in the right way.


of course, but I don't think I've ever heard someone mix trance in the way they mix techno...have you ever heard someone play two tracks at the same time for a longer period of time? techno mixes just sound better than techno EPs or compilations...a mixed psy trance compilation doesn't differ much from a normal one since all tracks are mixed in a very short period of time and always very near the end

and just one more thing...an average techno track lasts about 3 minutes, an average trance track lasts about 7 minutes...isn't it pure logic to conclude that techno offers a lot more room for mixing          DJ Dovla | Interchill Records, Flow Records
www.dovla.info
Cyzum
Cyzum

Started Topics :  77
Posts :  347
Posted : Mar 14, 2004 01:03
Quote:

of course, but I don't think I've ever heard someone mix trance in the way they mix techno...have you ever heard someone play two tracks at the same time for a longer period of time?



Yes, plenty of djs. I do it myself all the time.

I'll PM you the link for my last mix cd.
monkeydo

Started Topics :  3
Posts :  17
Posted : Mar 14, 2004 23:34
Me too. In fact to prove a point last year I posted a mix on another board that had something like 70 tracks in 70 minutes (all Psytrance apart from the random Marilyn Manson bit thrown in).

Guess you need some techno-ish mixing skillz to pull that off no?
robomarket
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  35
Posts :  970
Posted : Mar 15, 2004 05:50
is that mix stil available for download?
that 70 tracks in 70 minutes sounds very interesting.
Taku
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  20
Posts :  186
Posted : Mar 16, 2004 04:18
Everyone thank you for the replys. I can understand that there are some factors regarding the genre of the music when it comes to mixing. I must agree that most psytrance tracks sound better left alone, since they all have a different story. but how bout progressive trance.
I feel this side of trance sounds better when it can be mixed with a great flow, making it a real story with chapters leading to the finale. I also love it when two tracks can be played at the same time creating a whole new track. i think many progressive tracks are more effective when put into a mix, because they are like pieces that seems to do less when they are just left alone. what do you think?
clown
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  97
Posts :  1777
Posted : Mar 16, 2004 08:19
I think mixed cd's don't sell to well because, well, they might not put enough effort into there mixing skillz. The ironic part is that most of the people seem to think that mixing is impossible in psytrance, and it really scares me..

It seems that almost all the artists don't believe in beatmatching psytrance, full-on or whatever. And i find this very sad.. and there reasoning towards this is "you cant tell a proper story"..

well, the reality is, when you fade your tracks, there is no story.. and if you still believe that there is one, then at least realise that there is alot of distortion in it. On the dance floor, people FEEL the music, and NOTICE when there are new basslines and sounds.. therefor, whatever style you mix, you have to adapte the ear to the new sounds.. you can't just fade in a new track and expect people to keep dancing as hard as they were durring the peak of the track that just ended.. (but you can expect them to keep dancing if you beatmatch the peak, and the music keeps on going)(like a dj should do in the first place).

ohh yeah, and techno tracks are not 3 minutes long, they are about 5 minutes.. and don't you find it funny that psytrance songs are 7 minutes, and people STILL don't have enought time to figure out how to beatmatch the songs.. sad once again..

anyways, i always get pissed off when people bring up this subject.. sorry if i offended any of you jukebox dj's out there.. but hey, you can always try and learn to beatmatch those tracks real tight, and make the story sound like a novel..

PEACE
          "VA - REWIRED" OUT NOW !! (techtrance invasion) ---> http://forum.isratrance.com/viewtopic.php/topic/86303/forum/9
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aje
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  99
Posts :  1145
Posted : Mar 16, 2004 10:40
Word!!!           Check out my album: http://www.ektoplazm.com/free-music/gay-satanic-hippie-tiefenrausch
Madpup
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  21
Posts :  174
Posted : Mar 16, 2004 15:31
I agree with clown. Psy trance is not harder to beat mix than any other genre, unless it is some real crazy track which has bpm changes and beat structure changes and there are not that many.

Stuff like GMS, Astrix. Alien Project is especially simple to beat mix, not that harder than techno.

Dovla, if two psy trance tracks are mixed in key, all the crazy sounds would sound great together.

The reason why psy trance mix cds dont sell, i guess lack of a high profile from the scene djs.
duodenumz
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :  15
Posts :  116
Posted : Mar 16, 2004 19:59
clown knows what's up.

as for this:

"a mixed psy trance compilation doesn't differ much from a normal one since all tracks are mixed in a very short period of time and always very near the end"

this is why people need to actually learn how to mix from techno and trance DJs. actually, nearly EVERY other style is mixed more actively....hmm...isn't that a sign that psy DJs are a bit sad?

"and just one more thing...an average techno track lasts about 3 minutes, an average trance track lasts about 7 minutes...isn't it pure logic to conclude that techno offers a lot more room for mixing"

this makes no sense. techno is far harder to mix well than modern psytrance IMO. with techno, especially if you stay in the mix a long time to allow for cutting and tricks, you have a very short time to beatmatch the tracks. some DJs are so good that they can throw the track in and beatmatch it on the fly using only the pitch slider. the same tactics still work on CD decks, but you need to have SKILLS.

i will agree that psytrance can be quite sneaky with awkward structures (Space Buddha!), and faster mixes or looping tricks are in order in these cases. but the majority progress EXACTLY like uk hardtrance, which is piss-easy to mix.

i can't count the number of times i've heard sets from established DJs that are lacking in progression and energy. the key is to BUILD the energy in your set through extensive mixing, rather than rely on the tracks themselves to do all the work. lazy lazy...
duodenumz
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :  15
Posts :  116
Posted : Mar 16, 2004 20:03
i should add that classic goa tracks ARE a bother to mix, but you can still do lots of little cuts and even some good layering, depending on the tunes. these tracks also go from 0-60 in a much shorter time, so you don't need to mix so deep.

progressive NEEDS to be mixed well, end of story. i would go so far as to argue that it should be mixed like techno, with long transitions and well-timed cutting with the faders. it can be quite boring for the dncefloor when the DJ just waits around for 7 minutes, then does a quick transition.

Borris
IsraTrance Team

Started Topics :  45
Posts :  1581
Posted : Mar 16, 2004 22:50
Tell me all about it.

it's been a long time since i heard a trance DJ that can REALLY mix.
          Kinetic Honda GmbH, Worldwide Supliers of Quality noise.
Progression Sessions of the 3rd Empire!
Dovla
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  43
Posts :  748
Posted : Mar 17, 2004 01:00
a good techno dj will scratch, beat juggle, mix 3 tracks at the same time, use 4 turntables at the same time...these are just some things that techno djs do, just go and hear someone like dave clarke and you'll see what crazy stuff he can do...and if psy trance djs did the same it wouldn't sound good because the music is just more complex and doesn't leave that much room for such stuff...I respect both genres even though I haven't been listening to techno for years...but I still think that techno by itself is a genre that offers more room for different styles of mixing than psy trance
          DJ Dovla | Interchill Records, Flow Records
www.dovla.info
duodenumz
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :  15
Posts :  116
Posted : Mar 17, 2004 03:34
well, you're using extreme examples to prove your point.

most techno DJs use 2 decks, and some of them can still pull of some very creative mixing.

psytrance has changed in structure and production, becoming better-suited to techno/trance mixing techniques. the problem is, psytrance DJs don't seem to have caught on to this fact, and they cling to the old excuses to explain lazy or immature mixing.

the days of vinyl are also long gone for psytrance, and it amazes me that few (if any) DJs that i've seen take advantage of the features on decks like the Pioneer 1000.

frankly, i think psytrance should take a step back, and reduce the number of releases and mediocre DJs. there's just too much right now that is subpar.
seb@Mandala
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  20
Posts :  80
Posted : Mar 17, 2004 05:57
I agree mixing skills are not great among the psytrance dj's. But I think it is getting way better since everyone is now using cd's and cdj's insted of DAT and MINIDISC (total crap to me).

A lot of dj's that didn't use to beatmatch before changed their technique and are now pretty good at it. My best example would be Christof (Absolum). He used to play on DAT, no beatmatching, and he is now quite good at it, flawless mixes and great technique. I also saw quite a few dj's that impressed me with their mixing. Samy from CPU is excellent, and Dimitri can do stuff with a DJM500 that is just simply out of this world.

Mix cd's don't sell because people buying cd are for the most part dj's or dj wannabe so it really sucks for them. Also, Psytrance people buy cd's for the content, not for who put it together. Most people that by a cd mixed by Paul Ockenfold, Sasham Digweed and all actually think the dj did all the tracks, they don't know the difference between a cimpilation mixed by some dude Vs an album. Psytrance people are not so dumb.
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