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DJ Technique in psy trance
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tom anteater
IsraTrance Full Member
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56
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1637
Posted : Sep 16, 2003 12:32
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i think at the end of the day beat matching per se is not so difficult, just takes a little practice and it becomes fairly natural manoeurve. and as a result, either we are all a fraud  _or_ there is more to being a dj than just beat matching.. of course i think the latter, both technically and the non-technical stuff (like track selection) imho beat matching is just the start, and in many ways the minimum skill that a dj _must_ have (for house/ techno/trance or whatever) before he can seriously expect anyone to pay money to hear him (or her  ) play.
  >>love will tear us apart...<< |
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John
IsraTrance Full Member
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76
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768
Posted : Sep 16, 2003 18:42
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Interesting thread - I'm constantly amazed at big psy-trance festivals at the low technical level of skill from DJs playing to large crowds. At Samothraki there was a young lad with us (17) who mainly plays acid trance and techno and he spent the whole week complaining about how ropey the mixing was - tried to say - well things are a bit different in psy trance - but basically he was correct.
I've said it before - but psy-trance does seem to be moving towards an arist led scene more than a DJ led scene where people want to hear the tracks they've got on CD at home - rather than hear the DJ (cliche alert) take them on a journey.
Beat matching is just the beginning - its knowing the tracks and doing something with them, keeping the energy up and not just mixing the run in/run out parts and generally being creative rather than a human juke box!!
BTW I can afford to be a back seat DJ as I play chill out, funk & reggae with minimal need for beat mixing!! |
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nobody_3
Inactive User
Started Topics :
13
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1177
Posted : Sep 17, 2003 01:28
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Yeah I knew you were a fraud tom
No one really eat ants !
Hiya mate. Long time since we had a beer together |
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Chi
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
26
Posts :
312
Posted : Sep 17, 2003 03:39
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On 2003-09-16 12:29, krelm wrote:
Going a little off-topic into the key-mixing thing....
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On 2003-09-16 01:18, Zombi wrote:
u dont do key mixing coze its not allways 0.7 %
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That small of a pitch control change actually won't change the key. I have seen a lot of discussion regarding key mixing, and the consenus from the people that are really faithful to it (and really know what they are talking about) is that it takes a change of about 4% in order to shift the key one upwards or downwards.
If you know the key of a track, you will know where the key lies when you have the speed changed as well (especially if you are working within 1-2%). The main issue with key matching in DJing is that it is a lot of off-the-decks work.
1. You have to go through all your records and find the key of them.
2. You have to know which keys will work well together (music books)
3. You have to know which of your tracks really need to be mixed in key (usually ones with more atmospheres/melodies) and which you can not worry about it (minimal/percussive).
It may sound very difficult and like too much work, but consider it like any other DJ skill. Once you put the work and practice into being able to do it, it will become less of a struggle and more natural. And it will definitely improve the musicality of your mixes.
I haven't really put much work into it yet mainly because I have no synths and lack a good computer-based tool to find the key of tracks. But I would like to play with this in the near future. I can sense when I am out of key in a mix, and it almost is painful to hear.
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Sorry, i'm a little dumb. Can you explain that better?
key = musical note, right?
so key mixing = mixing tracks with the same "tone"? And what do you mean by being out of key?
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kilokif
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
14
Posts :
125
Posted : Sep 17, 2003 09:19
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hi ,
well i started to mix techno 5 years ago and then discover trance music, i don't think techno is harder to mix than trance , techno is for me the easiest and the hardest would be house, the only probleme with trance is that tracks are very full so you can't not play with 2 tracks to long |
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clive frog
Started Topics :
2
Posts :
21
Posted : Sep 17, 2003 10:21
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Quote:
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On 2003-09-16 12:29, krelm wrote:
Going a little off-topic into the key-mixing thing....
Quote:
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On 2003-09-16 01:18, Zombi wrote:
u dont do key mixing coze its not allways 0.7 %
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That small of a pitch control change actually won't change the key. I have seen a lot of discussion regarding key mixing, and the consenus from the people that are really faithful to it (and really know what they are talking about) is that it takes a change of about 4% in order to shift the key one upwards or downwards.
If you know the key of a track, you will know where the key lies when you have the speed changed as well (especially if you are working within 1-2%). The main issue with key matching in DJing is that it is a lot of off-the-decks work.
1. You have to go through all your records and find the key of them.
2. You have to know which keys will work well together (music books)
3. You have to know which of your tracks really need to be mixed in key (usually ones with more atmospheres/melodies) and which you can not worry about it (minimal/percussive).
It may sound very difficult and like too much work, but consider it like any other DJ skill. Once you put the work and practice into being able to do it, it will become less of a struggle and more natural. And it will definitely improve the musicality of your mixes.
I haven't really put much work into it yet mainly because I have no synths and lack a good computer-based tool to find the key of tracks. But I would like to play with this in the near future. I can sense when I am out of key in a mix, and it almost is painful to hear.
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key mixing....key mixing for me was the next logical step in DJ'ing, first came beatmatching, phrase arrangement, use of fx (kept to a minimum though) ,track selection and crowd reading. I think it's only worth trying to key mix once all of these other aspects come very naturally and quickly. It is very time consuming at first, key labeling every cd in your dj folder, plus learning about keys and their relationship with each other and the pitch control. +/-5.9% will shift one semi tone, C to C#, 0% to 2.4% will do nothing, but 2.4% to 5.2% will move into a hemi tone (between C and C#), which will be intween keys and sound sour, look out for this even when not key mixing.
There are many pro's and con's to key mixing. A whole set mixed harmonicaly sounds fantastic, but you need minimum 250+ cd's to do it properly. With 12 different keys to work with your track selection is limited so you're gonna need a large collection to play from. Here's a good example of a key mix :
Delirious - Dynamic Force (Nu Clear Visions) into Eskimo - Travelling (Album)
this is a 3rd note harmony, from E to G, you could go the other way too, eskimo into delirious.
For more information go to
www.harmonic-mixing.com |
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krelm
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
67
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648
Posted : Sep 17, 2003 12:01
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Quote:
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On 2003-09-17 03:39, Chi wrote:
key = musical note, right?
so key mixing = mixing tracks with the same "tone"? And what do you mean by being out of key?
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The key is the main tone of the work. Here is a definition I found online "key - A tonal system consisting of seven tones in fixed relationship to a tonic, having a characteristic key signature and being the structural foundation of the bulk of Western music; tonality."
Key mixing can actually go further than just staying in the same tone. Certain keys work well together, so you can shift around while still staying "in key" in your mixes. Clive frog seems to have a good idea of this and could probably answer the specifics better....it has been about 15 years since I had any formal musical training.
When I say "out of key", I mean an obvious clash of tones. Hit 2 keys on a piano that are next to each other at the same time. Sounds like crap, eh? That is out of key. Same thing happens in a lot of mixes. It is beatmatched and phrased perfectly, but the melodies or melodic atmospheres in the tracks sound bad together.
@clive frog - you seem to know quite a bit about this. Do you by chance know any sort of simple software where I can sound out notes and figure the keys of tracks? It is a bit of a pain without a piano or synth handy, and I have no idea where to look.
-----------------
Dr. Krelm DJ Mixes and Broken Symmetry archives - http://www.krelmatrix.com
Broken Symmetry on MCast - coming in 2007.... |
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russ
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
35
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275
Posted : Sep 17, 2003 13:41
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krelm, i don't think it's the melodies or atmospheres you need to worry about. it's the bass line. some bass lines will go together nicely, others won't. this has to do with the pattern of the bass line, but it also has to do with what key the bassline is written in. some basslines blend in a harmonic way, others don't.
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Chi
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
26
Posts :
312
Posted : Sep 17, 2003 14:32
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Thanks for the explanations, clive frog and krelm.
I'm just finishing learning beatmatch, however i'm just starting to learn track selection and midway through use of fx, so i guess i'll still have a lot to learn before moving into that kind of mix perfection!
But i will look at it in the future for sure... thanks |
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Borris
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
45
Posts :
1581
Posted : Sep 17, 2003 15:32
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Music theory 101.
Major scale chords are built as 1-3-5.
Good key mixes will be either as a major chord, or an the 4. (C major chord is C-E-G and the forth "subdominant" of C is F) so if u start your set at C you can move on to F and then to A (3rd step from A maj) then to D (4th step from A maj) and so on, options are almost limitless.
thank god for music theory lessons back when i was 10
Kinetic Honda GmbH, Worldwide Supliers of Quality noise.
Progression Sessions of the 3rd Empire! |
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clive frog
Started Topics :
2
Posts :
21
Posted : Sep 17, 2003 18:16
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Quote:
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On 2003-09-17 12:01, krelm wrote:
@clive frog - you seem to know quite a bit about this. Do you by chance know any sort of simple software where I can sound out notes and figure the keys of tracks? It is a bit of a pain without a piano or synth handy, and I have no idea where to look.
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there's a few around, do a google search for virtual piano. |
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Mike A
Subra
Started Topics :
185
Posts :
3954
Posted : Sep 18, 2003 17:12
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How about labels start adding the key near the tracks name, in addition to the BPM?
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yossi
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
72
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1641
Posted : Sep 18, 2003 17:22
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how about dj`s starting to work by themselves?
u know... beeing a dj is a job, so let them work!
mixer with bpm counter... bpm on the cd, cue, and u wanna add key too?!
if you want to be rich, u`ve got to be a bitch! |
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agnothaesia
Started Topics :
1
Posts :
6
Posted : Sep 19, 2003 08:46
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i vaguely remember seeing computer based mixing progs that have pitchless bpm change. I undrstand that this is a resample issue that may introduce glitch, but is there such a thing as a cdj that does this... or should i ask... a cdj that allows seperate key and bpm variation... hangon probably not f you need a 5% bpm change for a single tone transition... (not that you would need to go too far to find a nice change of tone) and at that level perhaps the resample error would be too obvious... here you really are changing the music itself... not the time basis
just thinking of the easy way to get tonal agreement |
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rippa
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
60
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231
Posted : Sep 19, 2003 12:12
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i myself can match fullon tracks mix for like hmm 30-40secs sometimes more , but that's in most of the cases is enough because there's too much sounds involved in it , besides in the last 2-3 years there's a big improvment in the dj skills in the psy scene , GMS mixxing skills are awesome they mix fullon trance just like a great house dj can spin , its great , skazi has a real good hands aswell , this thing is a bless for the psy scene and gives another step in thier professinalizim of the scene , GOD IS A DJ.
I'm The Superviz'a Can I Get The Taxi Numbah?! |
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