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Trance Forum  Forum  DJs & Artists - DJ Technique in psy trance

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DJ Technique in psy trance

nobody4
Inactive User

Started Topics :  21
Posts :  358
Posted : Sep 10, 2003 13:55
Many House/Techno DJs claim that psy trance DJs are inferior because of the fact they can't spin as good as the former.
What do you think?

I agree that generaly the tech level of H/T DJs is higher, but this is because these musical styles demand constant 'hands-on' work in order to create the flow in the set (playing one techno track after another in downmix is simply boring, since the tracks themselves doesn't have such a storyline, IMO).
In Psy trance, each track have a definitive begining, middle and ending, and cutting one or more of them is confusing and often unecessary. Many Psy DJs (your humble slave included) CAN spin 3 decks (or CDs) simultaniously, but at home, not in front of audience, since its simply unfitting.

Boris, I dare ye mate!!!

Love&Light,
Auspexx           auspexx@compact-records.com
Zombi
IsraTrance Senior Member

Started Topics :  375
Posts :  5032
Posted : Sep 10, 2003 14:26
i think they quite right, those house/techno djs.
as nectarios said, till few years before main dj tool/medium in trance world were dats and mds, u cant seriously speak about mixing while using this tools.
as from few years before cd became a main tool for trance djs, and with this tool u allready can and have to mix properly, but i have to admit many if not the most trance djs just spin as it md, without speed synchronization aka beatmatching. its quite sad coze their sets loose any flow or make them play trx till the very end of it or just change them on break, things that sure confuse dancer that want go up with flow build up and not loosing beat for a second.
u r right somewhere helen about structure of most of psy trance tunes, they done with this useless intros and outros, call it story, but anyway, for dancefloor much better let the beat and drums flow and not full trax, while most of them get bored after few minutes.
i have to say that most of trance djs have no technique at all, alot even dont have decks at home to practice on, so for sure u cnt mix at party if u dont spend long hours in your bedroom:)
about 3 decks, well, i did it once in a party (with two cdj 800 and one cdj 100), not that im realy into this stuff but its quite funny to have haldolium's killer hi-hats (those massive train sound) on top of dark techno-trance.
as for me, i dont care high technique level so much but the flow must be smooth and thats what i try and do.
as about me so more than lack of technique alot of trance djs just dont feel the rythm, trying spin tunes without build a set. puting two kick one on another dont make u good dj, u should know your stuff, u should build up the set and please, trance djs, dont mix it in in the middle of the nowhere, be patience, come in in right place.
and no need open all eq's every time u beatmacthed properly:)          Believe your soul !
Christian
D-Nox

Started Topics :  55
Posts :  321
Posted : Sep 10, 2003 15:05
I think djs in the psytrancescene don`t need any dj skills cause psytrance is to full packed with sounds that is realy not necassary to mix more into it.

the real dj skills you will find for sure in the techno / house scene... there you can find real dj work.

I think it`s more difficult to mix house or techno tunes than psy tunes. It`s easy to wait till a track is close to finish to make the mix but it`s much more interessting to play with T or H tunes.

Anyway enjoy the music and the most important thing is the flow! If the dj can`t beatmix or can`t creat a flow with his tunes he is not a good one and should try to find another profession.

going with the flow, with the flow, with the flow, I`m going with the flow with the flow, ohohoa.... (Model 500 - the flow - R&S Records)
Avishay
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  88
Posts :  326
Posted : Sep 10, 2003 15:52
even psychedelik trance can be mixed. and quite good, thanks very much. the mixing ability is only up to the dj, not at all connected to the type of music he plays.
ofcourse you cant make a 4 minute mix on a full on track, but you can make a 1:40 minute mix that'll blow the corwds mind.... for sure.
and it'll still be a damn fine mix.
what zombie said is right on the money.... the only thing to distinguish good djs from not so good ones, is if they PRACTICE. (well, not only... there are other stuff... but you get my drift).
the basics of mixing are the same for all dance music genres. so if you are good in one, you can be good in others, as long as you "get" (feel) the genre you are mixing... not at all a question of music here, i think.
krelm
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  67
Posts :  648
Posted : Sep 10, 2003 16:55
I agree with most of what is said above.

Psytrance DJs don't need ALL the technical skills of house and techno DJs because there are already so many sounds in the tracks. Especially with full-on, it is difficult (impossible?) to be constantly in the mix and really add that much to the music. More minimal styles have more room for re-interpretation and addition.

But since CDJs have replaced DATs and Minidiscs, beatmatching is for sure a must. There is no excuse whatsoever for a DJ playing in front of a crowd and not having the slightest clue how to beatmatch properly. I hear it at so many parties and it disrupts the mood. Even with the fullest of full-on psytrance, a DJ can do a 1-2-minute mix between tracks. It just takes PRACTICE.

The 2 necessary skills for *anybody* who wants to call themself a DJ are:
1. beatmatching
2. properly working the EQs

If you can't do those things, go home and practice some more.

(this obviously excludes ambient/chillout DJs, but there are totally different skills required for that)

It seems because of the "DAT past" of the psytrance scene, many DJs use it as an excuse for shoddy mixing, and the concentration becomes more on getting "unreleased killerz" than improving themselves on the decks.
          -----------------
Dr. Krelm DJ Mixes and Broken Symmetry archives - http://www.krelmatrix.com

Broken Symmetry on MCast - coming in 2007....
Borris
IsraTrance Team

Started Topics :  45
Posts :  1581
Posted : Sep 10, 2003 20:22
Lovley Helen, everything i wanted to say was said by other smart people.

What i do want form DJ's (and is an essential part of DJ culture) is to have the ability and technique to perform a flawless mix EVERY TIME without any excuses. most psy-trance DJ's lack this. even if it's only for 20 seconds.

Also, given the same cases 2 psy-trance DJ's would priduce extremly simmilar sets, 2 H/T DJ's (not even talking about Hip-Hop turtabulists) would produce quite different results. this is what makes it so interesting. I find ALOT of the psytrance DJ's (especially the full on ones) sound really almost the same, hardly any difference between the different sets (except for an exclusive track here and there) what makes you different from me?? what makes Alien Project Different from GMS??

But as people allready said that in trance the DJ isn't important, that he is only a conduit and that the really important guy is the Producer. I'm not a producer, I'm a technical DJ and a damn good one, this is why i recently find myself drawn more and more to playing Techno and house.

Oh and Minimal trance is perfectly built for techno cross cuting technique, too bad noone tried to do it seriously. minimal got so boring cause hardly any DJ managed to spin it properly. for fin-trance and full on i agree 3TT technique isn't needed, but I'd still expect a DJ to be able to do it even if he doesn't has to. it's like a precussion player in an orchestra. he usually playes the double cymbals, no great art to that, but they are killer precussionists non the less.


          Kinetic Honda GmbH, Worldwide Supliers of Quality noise.
Progression Sessions of the 3rd Empire!
DiMiTry
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  70
Posts :  2299
Posted : Sep 11, 2003 00:06
I find spinning minimal and tech trance and housey stuff is a lot easier than mixing full-on trance. Vinyl makes it easier, too - 1200s have a much finer pitch control than CDJs. Try and get a techno or house dj to mix some full-on psytrance for an hour, and see how badly they're going to mess it up. Mixing psytrance well is hard! You've got to mix not just the drums, but the midrange madness - the melodies, the squeaks, the basslines, all 25 layers of them. I used to mix DnB before trance, and I thought that was hard. Psytrance is much harder, if you want to mix it right. That's why a lot of people don't bother, I think.
Christian
D-Nox

Started Topics :  55
Posts :  321
Posted : Sep 11, 2003 00:33
dr. borris you are right!!!

dimitri - why mixing full on should be more difficult than techno or drum & bass??? - it`s all 4 to the floor.
In full on trance the basslines are mostly in the same pattern, actually it makes no sense to mix melodies and the trance tracks have usualy a story which you would kill if you mix it all the time.

check the post of Dr. Borris!

peace
Borris
IsraTrance Team

Started Topics :  45
Posts :  1581
Posted : Sep 11, 2003 01:20
DiMiTry, remember that when Mixing techno you Mix all the time, there is no such thing as let a track play. Hawtin and Mills play 50-70 records per hour, other techno DJ's play less records but their mixes last for 3-5 minutes.
the CDJ 1000 allowes very high precision mixing.
and with the 100 you can keep corecting al the time, i can hold 2 tracks toghether on the CDJ 100 indefinetley.
why is it that Trance DJ's are allways looking for shortcuts both financial like not buying the music they play out (Vinyl/CD) and time (Practice, Practice, Practice makes perfect) when i bought my Technics 1200 I spend over 2 hours daily just mixing and i still spend about 150EU monthly on records, it's not much but it's what i can afford.

basic thing, if u can't afford being a DJ, DONT PLAY! stop shortcutting.           Kinetic Honda GmbH, Worldwide Supliers of Quality noise.
Progression Sessions of the 3rd Empire!
error604
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  23
Posts :  200
Posted : Sep 11, 2003 08:26
trance tracks already have a lot of fx and use of filters etc. which therefore does away the need for using an Fx processor like House DJs use., whereas a good house DJ will use filters etc. sometimes to make a reasonable house track into one that sounds better if the crowd is a lil wild.

thus a house DJ is often busier on the decks unlike a trance Dj who can chill for a few mins when a long track is playing.

therefore from a pure time put in on the console perspective, it's a lot more work for a house DJ.
nobody4
Inactive User

Started Topics :  21
Posts :  358
Posted : Sep 11, 2003 10:11
What bothers me when hearing some DJs (I dont wanna say most DJs, but that's the unfortunate case), aside from low beatmix skills, is that many don't pay attention to the 4x4 structure of the music:
Psy trance is build on 16 bars, or 4x4 (not the beat, but the structure). Hence, every mixing entry point should be made on the 16 or 32 note, at the beginning of the new bar. Many DJs make the beatmix good, but the mixing tracks subjects and loops are comming on the wrong time because the entering track came in on the 13th beat in stead of the 16th. This, IMO, is sometime worse than no beatmix at all, because everybody can learn how to beatmix (yes, everybody), but understanding how the music is constructed, understanding subjects, loops and flow - that is what makes (again, IMO) a good Psy trance DJ.

House and Techno (not to mention breakbeat, jungle or hiphop) are totaly different types of music, which require different perception and understanding. Techno doesnt necessarily follows the 16/32 structure, and definately HipHop/Breakbeat do not.

A           auspexx@compact-records.com
Zombi
IsraTrance Senior Member

Started Topics :  375
Posts :  5032
Posted : Sep 11, 2003 10:22
Quote:

On 2003-09-10 14:26, Zombi Cocktail wrote:
dont mix it in in the middle of the nowhere, be patience, come in in right place.



helen, its what i ment. bar/notes thing.
only this way possibley make a flow and not to be sounded crap.           Believe your soul !
david kebab
Faction

Started Topics :  56
Posts :  181
Posted : Sep 11, 2003 10:22
good dj skills r important to keep the flow of the dancers.
mixing is quite new for the psy scene since it was mainly DAT\MD which does not offer u the ability to mix like you should.
i really don`t agree with what some people said here, u can play GOOD house or techno tune with cutting and EQing like maniac, good music is good music. but its more fun to hear a skilled dj and not a charletan.
and about 3 TT its bullocks and after 10 minutes u get bored since the dj puts all the emphasis on keeping the mix and not about the music.
borris i agree with most of what u said but
mind you hawtins sets are very boring, miles can be less boring but people who heard him spin say hes doing trainwrecks all the time
i guess hes getting old.
Trance Forum  Forum  DJs & Artists - DJ Technique in psy trance

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