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DJ Technique in psy trance

DiMiTry
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  70
Posts :  2299
Posted : Sep 11, 2003 13:27
Hehe, I tend to forget that I live in Tech-House country here in the US.. Psy DJs are outnumbered 10000 to 1. Smooth mixing is a must if you don't want to get kicked off the decks, and so even psy DJs here usually have great mixing skills, unless they come from other countries.

Trance just sounds so much better when mixed well. Damn it, Beatmatching is EASY! Mixing prog and techno isn't hard - it might be more work, indeed, and different skills, yes, but I wouldn't say it's Harder. Mixing a GOW track with, say, a Full Color track, and making it smooth, is harder.... especially when you do it for 3 hours straight. but hell, it's possible, I've done it.

In any case, I don't think any kind of DJing is less hard or more glorious (if at all) - every genre is hard, and each requires different skills, and good sets in any genre are good sets, no matter if you played 100 records or just 30. Comparing them is like comparing apples and oranges and kiwis and mangoes.
Hopefully the psy-heads will realize that good mixing is important to their sanity, and the world will be a better place.
Borris
IsraTrance Team

Started Topics :  45
Posts :  1581
Posted : Sep 11, 2003 13:47
Helen: it's the 17th beat the mix should start at not 16th.

and ALL electronic music has 8-16-32-64 structure, actually Trance is the genre that breaks it more often (12 bars or 20 bars are not uncommon in Full on and Finn-trance) Mixing Techno and house and Trance as exactly the same principals. it's all electronic dance music and works exactly the same (and yes so do Jungle, D&B and Nu School breaks)

Error604: I don't (nor do most house DJ's) use EFX or filters when playing, it's not about the filters or what is allready written in the music, it's about creating something new out of your DJ set, otherwise what point there is? is a DJ an Artist? a good DJ set is much much more then the sum of it's tracks and this is acheived throughout mixing and technique.

Kebabson: I don't consider Hawtin's sets boring, (well maybee just a little). about the 3 TT's you are probably right, at least in some of the cases. and you probably meant "u can play GOOD house or techno tune withOUT cutting and EQing like maniac"           Kinetic Honda GmbH, Worldwide Supliers of Quality noise.
Progression Sessions of the 3rd Empire!
agnindhana
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  21
Posts :  74
Posted : Sep 11, 2003 15:45
yeh...17th beat...first beat of the new bar...

i am a 'crossover' from hip hop to house to trance...still play a bit of house sometimes...

there are 2 issues here...one is the technique...and the other is the style...
technique would be the dj's control over bpm/eq/bars
style would refer to his style of mixing...it could be a more 'organic' style (straight mixing,as prefered by most trance dj's) or a more 'flashy' (for lack of a better word)style... sampling/cut mixing/scratching...

no question about it....the dj's technique needs to be spot on...most trance dj's would argue that what is more important is arrangement of tunes in a set...and it is true...that is more important...but that is not enough...the smoother the 'transitions' between different 'stages' of the set...between different tracks in one stage...'at' the right bar,'on' the right beat......the 'tighter' the set is...
i think it is as simple as that...

where the style is concerned...i think that would depend on the dj...and the music he plays....
i personally dont think that a 'flashy' style would go down well with trance...just cause it is an 'organic' kind of music and so too the mixing needs to be conventional...meeting at the top and at the roots...not really at the trunk...i dont even favour sampling,or scratching or a lot of tricks even in house music...trance has made me a little serious i guess...hehe... u could compare the producer, to an author,telling a story...a dj is a pretty special character....he puts all these short stories together...smoothly blends the characters and moves into the next short story...creating one big story....
in all this a sampling,cutting dj looks,to me like,this character...tearing books apart...putting small bits and pieces here and there...completely taking apart the 'story'...
still...house is not so serious...so i guess we have to look at it from a different point of view...that is y i still enjoy house sets...
but when i play....it is staright 'organic' mixing...at the right bar,on the right beat...
boom
Borris
IsraTrance Team

Started Topics :  45
Posts :  1581
Posted : Sep 11, 2003 16:22
Quote:

no question about it....the dj's technique needs to be spot on...most trance dj's would argue that what is more important is arrangement of tunes in a set...and it is true...that is more important...but that is not enough...the smoother the 'transitions' between different 'stages' of the set...between different tracks in one stage...'at' the right bar,'on' the right beat......the 'tighter' the set is...
i think it is as simple as that...



and what alot of trance DJ's don't get is that Technique is a Prerequisite to standing at the mixer. you can argue all you want about track order and arrangement of tunes AFTER you learn how to mix them properly.

Quote:

in all this a sampling,cutting dj looks,to me like,this character...tearing books apart...putting small bits and pieces here and there...completely taking apart the 'story'...



Well, i guess that i expect a Brilliant DJ to be able to tell his own story out of those small bits and pieces. I agree about trance being more organic, but it can still be done, especialy with Minimal trance. again, alot of the trance DJ's cant even tell a proper flowing long story out of short story tracks.
          Kinetic Honda GmbH, Worldwide Supliers of Quality noise.
Progression Sessions of the 3rd Empire!
agnindhana
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  21
Posts :  74
Posted : Sep 11, 2003 17:40
...yeh u could probably do it with min trance...
and yes there are a lot of dj's who cant put a decent set together...but then that is what seperates a mediocre dj from a good dj from a brilliant dj...

just one question...what do u think the first pre requsite of a dj would be...his ability to put together a set or his ability to mix tunes...?

Borris
IsraTrance Team

Started Topics :  45
Posts :  1581
Posted : Sep 11, 2003 18:38
u ask me what is more inportant tech or style.

I think they are inseperable. you need to have both.

in Techno a flasht technical DJ can get away with bad programming. in Trance (and most house) it's not so.           Kinetic Honda GmbH, Worldwide Supliers of Quality noise.
Progression Sessions of the 3rd Empire!
nobody4
Inactive User

Started Topics :  21
Posts :  358
Posted : Sep 11, 2003 21:02
Yeah Boris, I meant the 17th of course, the first beat of the next bar. sorry.           auspexx@compact-records.com
Zombi
IsraTrance Senior Member

Started Topics :  375
Posts :  5032
Posted : Sep 11, 2003 21:09
Quote:

On 2003-09-11 17:40, agnindhana wrote:
just one question...what do u think the first pre requsite of a dj would be...his ability to put together a set or his ability to mix tunes...?





its not worth one without another, just this.           Believe your soul !
timsensient
Sensient

Started Topics :  101
Posts :  438
Posted : Sep 12, 2003 02:52
Quote:

On 2003-09-11 13:47, Dr. Borris wrote:

and ALL electronic music has 8-16-32-64 structure



I agree most is, but no way is it all like this, we have the option in cubase and other progs to use odd timings/structures and some of us use these possibilties...add in an extra beat here or there at the turnaround just to keep people on their toes, or skip a half bar and bring that hat in early. Plus much ambient music has unconventional structure and timings (and is much more interesting as a result imo).
Borris
IsraTrance Team

Started Topics :  45
Posts :  1581
Posted : Sep 13, 2003 00:28
Ambient Excluded
Can i please hear some non 8-16-32-64 structured music?

not to talk about odd rythm (3/4, 5/8) music...

I only know 2 3/4 tracks there is a hallucinogen one (that starts 4/4 and shifts midway into 3/4 and then back into 4/4) and one by Total Eclipse (that starts 3/4 and shifts in the middle to 4/4)

          Kinetic Honda GmbH, Worldwide Supliers of Quality noise.
Progression Sessions of the 3rd Empire!
droozi
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  33
Posts :  402
Posted : Sep 13, 2003 01:36
Three things important for a good psytrance DJ:
1. Beat matching (Duh!!)
2. As agreeed by all the structure of the track and knowing the right moment to bring in the next track.
3. Most important - Track selection. You could beat match well, and even get the music structure right, but if you dont play the right track at the right time of my trip then in my opnion you suck ass.
full_on
IsraTrance Team

Started Topics :  278
Posts :  5453
Posted : Sep 13, 2003 07:14
I don't even dare to call myself a DJ, but I will give my opinion...
A good full on DJ obviously must know how to beat match, but he must also know very well the tracks he'll play, so he can spin two or even three tracks at the same time... few DJs do that, they almost always just switch the tracks with a nice mix (if you're lucky)...
Also, I believe usually minimal DJs are better than full on DJs...
Respect!
          .
...Be gentle with the earth...
...Dance like nobody's watching...
.
...I don't mind not going to Heaven, as long as they've got Coffee in Hell...
timsensient
Sensient

Started Topics :  101
Posts :  438
Posted : Sep 13, 2003 10:05
Quote:

On 2003-09-13 00:28, Dr. Borris wrote:
Ambient Excluded
Can i please hear some non 8-16-32-64 structured music?

not to talk about odd rythm (3/4, 5/8) music...

I only know 2 3/4 tracks there is a hallucinogen one (that starts 4/4 and shifts midway into 3/4 and then back into 4/4) and one by Total Eclipse (that starts 3/4 and shifts in the middle to 4/4)






Some of Ubar Tmars' early stuff...it has some crazy unconventional rythmic structures in it. Metric modulation and just plain weird structures, although still mathematical of course, but just different groupings. Some Praecox stuff also moves around alot...hmmm and i know there is more that i cant think of right now, but its pretty rare you are right...
GuyShanti
Aerospace

Started Topics :  112
Posts :  877
Posted : Sep 14, 2003 11:14
my 5 cents:

Full On Is Too easy to mix - the trax all sound simmilar - story and sound- the BPM in close so u dont spend an hour fiddling with the pitch, snd the structure is more or less the same (exept the odd 1 bar inserts here and there) so if u stick to 9-17-33 bars mix u b ok.

House/UK is easy to mix too - sounds are simmilar, grooves are simmilar, u got loooooong intros and outros to blend and the lower BPMs mean you have a year to mix b4 the trax are finnished.

The hardest to mix are the progressive - 134-140 bpms - the diversity of the tracks is such that you have to mix differant styles/sounds/bpms- meaning you spend more time preparing and in mix fiddling. in this category you have a big diversity of kik/bass sounds and styles and the key is to KNOW the trax u play.

G
          http://www.myspace.com/aerospacemusic

Aerospace Re Entry EP on beatport.com
https://www.beatport.com/en-US/html/content/release/detail/276014/Re%20Entry%20EP
nobody_3
Inactive User

Started Topics :  13
Posts :  1177
Posted : Sep 14, 2003 16:03
Once I thought it did not matter if you had any mixing skills or not mixing psy/goa. To me it was all about what music I played. Today I have seen then light

Of course the right music at the right time is very important but in my opinion it has to go hand in hand with a good mixing.

People deserve a good time on the dancefloor listening and dancing to a set that flow instead of breaking it up every 7-9 minute with a bad uncontrolled mix. Afterall the DAT days are over. We all - or almost all - now use CD's and vinyl's and have no excuse whatsoever not to beatmix.

But of course you can be a very skilled mixer without any feeling for the crowd and their mood. It's essential that a DJ communicate with people on the dancefloor aswell as the mixing skilles have to be good.

my 2 cents ;-)
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