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CRAP "PSY" MUSIC !

offthenutboom
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  55
Posts :  928
Posted : Aug 11, 2005 19:52
Quote:

On 2005-08-11 03:38, Willy Wonka wrote:
So basically your words meant to say we can't discuss, critisize or review an art without being an artists with better "rating".



I think personally to stereotype a whole entire pool of artists as amateur... is a mistake. Specially when many are master engineers and musicians. Simon Posford is an amateur. Aes Dana amateur. Son Kite... whatever. Mr Peculiar an amateur. Orion... no they just fool about with music. Xenomorph, yes he learn a few things for fun about engineering...

And the list goes on, right? I have a very good friend who produces progressive. His name is Thomas Penton. I also know Austin Leeds. I have seen Thomas work from beginning to end on track, as well as other psy trance artists and to tell you the truth there is the same attention to detail, the same principles of sound engineering. The same wizardry od synthesis and motivs... The knowledge is there and most producers use the same tools, Cubase, Logic, Protools... Same plugins. Same mastering processes.

I played after a Ivano Bellini here in South Beach. He plays progressive and he is popular over here playing in Space twice a week for 1500ppl+... I did not hear any difference between his progressive sounds and my mixed in Jaia track

So the point of the battle of the genres is pointless. There is progressive that sounds flat, and other sounds deep, crystal clear and great... the same goes to every music in the planet. But to say psy trance sounds amateur is like diving in a pool of ignorance.
offthenutboom
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  55
Posts :  928
Posted : Aug 11, 2005 20:16
Quote:

On 2005-08-11 15:14, Willy Wonka wrote:
So actually you saying most of UK House listeners are on coke? I've never seen that thing and never will, thou i saw heroin. hehehe!

HandA, you right labels are responsible for low quality music but don't we listeners and we artists are responsible too?

I think it is combination of worse producers, worse label managers and worse listeners(chemical users who can't judge a damn thing)!
NOT EVERYONE BUT MANY, so don't take my words as offence!



Do you personally know this ppl. You are passing judgement so lightly. Who are you to say anything about all this ppl who work hard, who put their hard earn money, time and effort into releasing the music they love. And this is not only a trance issue, but a music issue.

Don't take your words as an offence? So know you are going to clean yourself from any responsibility of your actions. What kind of respect have you earned to insult the hard work of ppl you do not even know. If this scene is not rising, don't blame it on the ppl who construct it, but on yourself who destroys.

If you want it certain way, build it yourself... Because no one will do it for you. Where the fuck is your chocolate factory Mr Wonka.

EYB
Noized

Started Topics :  111
Posts :  2849
Posted : Aug 11, 2005 21:16
BTW

Which 'crap' music do u mean? I hardly know real crap, and this isn't psytrance.

Where/What is the 'crap'?            Signature
Willy Wonka
Inactive User

Started Topics :  13
Posts :  574
Posted : Aug 11, 2005 21:44
offthenutboom, this is other side of stick. Who am i to judge! You still read between lines i clearly explained myself, i call mainstream(avarage artist) of psytrance amateur. Aes Dana with all due respect isn't psytrance but chillout project and to these i have a lot of respect. You just read what you want to read because you got offended by what i've said about your "holy music". Son Kite is different case, i know this project since it's begging, first album of Son Kite well it's not good! Second album is good material to think thou not that dancable, third one dancable but lost the thinking point. With all these i still respect Son Kite and their side projects, their high quality mastering and their wish to be better with every new album. I speak about different artists as mainstream (avarage). When you push here big names!

I hope you will reconsider and reread my previous words!

cheers, don't take this to heart! this is just discussion i wish to keep respectul as it can be. also please do not involve names, just visit psyshop and listen to every day updated releases to find out what i'm talking about. YOu know my nickname says alot about what i want to say, if you saw the movie then you probably will understand my nature more.
offthenutboom
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  55
Posts :  928
Posted : Aug 11, 2005 23:34
First and foremost... Willy Wonka in the first movie was a bastard he he... in this second one he has been sugar coated

Actually I have listen to almost all the releases on Psyshop, Chaos Unlimited, Wirikuta and Saikosounds. I have played all kinds of music. D&B, Industrial, Acid Trance, Progressive, Techno, chill, noise, experiemental, punk, pop, techno pop etc etc Of course i like psy trance more, because there is some kind of synergy witht he ppl who are involved in this scene, and the music really lifts me up.

I have to go through hours of listening to techno, tech trance, tribal and progressive to get something mindblowing. We have a pretty nice store here in South Beach for all those styles. It is a matter of taste. I am also selective with psy trance because I have a taste and a style when I play. Some music I do not like, some other I do. I also go to Bangin Tunes and http://www.juno.co.uk/ to lend an ear to all kinds of music. I like to be open minded and learn.

There are artists who are @ different levels of development. I actually make music and I am learning fast, but still I am in my early stages of music and engineering knowledge + I work only in Reason, which is an awesome tool but limiting. I personally I am not outputting anything I am completetly satisfied with. I understand the whole creative, licencing process, mastering, pressing, distribution and retail. I have friends who @ one time or another have been doing one or the other. I personally have worked for a mayor corporation and have learned about the marketing process and decisions on releases in a regional (Continental) level. I understand the effort it takes and the will power to release any music, from the smallest to the biggest companies.

Quote:

I think it is combination of worse producers, worse label managers and worse listeners(chemical users who can't judge a damn thing)!



And

Quote:

cheers, don't take this to heart! this is just discussion i wish to keep respectul as it can be.



Yes a lot of respect in this discussion

Quote:

Why do i say psytrance is amateur, simple! If i take mainstream of psytrance and compare it to other style i see the large gaps! Some psytrance artists are good, some can't produce music at all, some need alot of hard work. Once again it is IMHO which i base on my personal and other listeners views!



This is one of the best times psy trance has had in its history. Music is more and more interesting, there is a huge variety of styles and sounds within the genre. From Dub, chill, progressive, full on, dark, freaky and weird music. This scene, unlike others, is multidimensional.

The gap is in your mind. It is very subjective and you did not only pass judgement on artists, but on labels also.

I checked and double cheked you previous words... but the message keeps on coming the same way



DiMiTry
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  70
Posts :  2299
Posted : Aug 11, 2005 23:50
Quote:

On 2005-08-11 23:34, offthenutboom wrote:
I checked and double cheked you previous words... but the message keeps on coming the same way



there are some users here who are very set in their opinions and ridiculously stubborn.

arguing with them is okay for a minute, but after a while it just starts going nowhere..

i am prolly one of them, but not the only.           ..it's just another party..
Rah
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  77
Posts :  498
Posted : Aug 12, 2005 03:46
Quote:


Don't take your words as an offence? So know you are going to clean yourself from any responsibility of your actions. What kind of respect have you earned to insult the hard work of ppl you do not even know. If this scene is not rising, don't blame it on the ppl who construct it, but on yourself who destroys.

If you want it certain way, build it yourself... Because no one will do it for you. Where the fuck is your chocolate factory Mr Wonka.




damn someone finally said it... PERIOD... really... what else is there to discuss when some folks here change their point of view on every other post.           elementoftime.net
musique la carte in mp3 & wav.

Sonic-energy.net
Reviews, interviews, downloads, articles.
ucc
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :  16
Posts :  316
Posted : Aug 12, 2005 04:27
Quote:

On 2005-08-12 03:46, Rah wrote:
Quote:


Don't take your words as an offence? So know you are going to clean yourself from any responsibility of your actions. What kind of respect have you earned to insult the hard work of ppl you do not even know. If this scene is not rising, don't blame it on the ppl who construct it, but on yourself who destroys.

If you want it certain way, build it yourself... Because no one will do it for you. Where the fuck is your chocolate factory Mr Wonka.




damn someone finally said it... PERIOD... really... what else is there to discuss when some folks here change their point of view on every other post.



i agree that it's pointless any discussion, but i go further sying 'about anything', because i mostly don't care abot whoevers opinion on and about. But, one thing is to be angry about something, and scream about it, if someones feel revolted and feel the need to express, even if we're against, again i prefer to keep it shut, and even if agree sometimes i feel it'll fit me better if i' again keep it too, shut
i can't read all the thread because again, i just don't bother to know on what everyones think, but now that i'm participating i'm feeling it would suit me good if i taking the oportunity share my resumed thoughts about
i tried to rejoin the trance scene, but call me conservative, i don't like or don't identify myself with the what todays on. The name you call this scene today is the name we're calling a scene in the past, and things are definatelly not the same lol, i don't know why, but in some way it must be a kind of fascinium and admiration for us who really lived the real scene in the past.
you're angry because you feel the ranters contradicting on every post.. lol, what were you expecting, we're mad, we invent, we try to argument, find every worthless piss to use it against, you know why, because utopically thinking, not yet completely convinced... we want the real scene back.

... i'm keeping my last bullets ;p
Dainty Doll
June Rashava

Started Topics :  49
Posts :  426
Posted : Aug 14, 2005 12:34
Quote:

On 2005-08-08 15:27, Dot Kite wrote:
Dear all members of Isratrance,

I will not stop SHOUTHING to all the newcomer "artists" that are totally CRAP !

They edit unpleasurable music! They are not creative! They don't bring any kind of INNOVATION! And the worst thing is that they want to be "ROCK" stars......

I don't want to sound negative here,



blablabla.. i couldten even be botherd to read the rest but there..
beucase you start out writting, i am not gonna stop shouting, and then feather down you write, i dont want to sound negative.
LOL i think its a but too late for that.

Anyway, you can't stop them for doing what they are doing. New artists have it easy, and they are gonna take that opitunatie. Nothing you can do about it.
So stop wasting you'r breath on things like this.
Money and "fame" takes over anything else in many peoples eyes!
just close your eyes for and find the good Artists/Dj/Djanes.
That is what we can do about it.


All the best and lots of SUNSHINE :sun:           http://crackwhoremodels.dk/dainty_doll.html

www.myspace.com/djdaintydoll

www.myspace.com/junerashava
chong

Started Topics :  0
Posts :  227
Posted : Aug 14, 2005 16:05
Quote:

On 2005-08-10 19:40, ocelot wrote:
Willy- before you edited your post you said
"you call me a moron for expressing my opinion"


no i call you a moron for perpetuating
the mentality that big promotional budgets equal quality music.

i call you a moron for using progressive house music as your example.
at least talk about fine jazz and musicianship or something...

or talk about something empirical we can evaluate and not some nebulous inferred superiority we are just supposed to grasp out of hand.

what the hell is better man?
the kicks are weedy and woofy,
the basslines are anemic and flat sounding.
whats better buddy?



seriously ocelot,do u really know anything about sound engineering ?
cause while reading u , we could expect huge musical production, amazing mixing skills
but while listening to your music, i'm really wondering if u have any skills nor even knowledge in mixing ...
and i can tell u , u have A LOT of things to learn from prog house producers musically AND technically... beside everything u can say about your such humble person
cheers!
dirty 1

Started Topics :  8
Posts :  141
Posted : Aug 14, 2005 22:39
having listened to psychedelic dance music for many years i do agree that at this moment in time the vaste majority of the music being release is recycled crap and really isnt very inspiring.
i blame the isrealies for the massive commercial impact they have had on the scene,the cheap price of coke and the bullshit/ego that comes with it,and the fact that people are trying to write music they think people will like rather than what they like.

the underground scene seems to be an exception to this and anyone who is interested in mind expansion through music should focus on this area,i think.

m3x1co
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  13
Posts :  82
Posted : Aug 21, 2005 07:33
Woow,

This is very hard subject for give a opinion but i think always will be depend of the taste of each people maybe some guys will be think now the music is crap and day per day continue with more crap music but im sure the artists always try to create what they feel in his studio.

Sometimes they just make a track with not own ideas, wich is the most important in a track of any kind of style also some labels just make very bad promotion with his own artists and release music for promote to own crew and not all the time the tracks are good ones mostly is the same-boring-not own ideas tracks but the label need it promote to this own crew so ??? for shure to much people dont liked this . . .

Just we dont need buyed-support what we dont like maybe this about the taste of each person and what they like dont you think ??? also remember now this is a business and the labels make what is suitable for them i doesnt matter if they release good music or not they only want promote the the crew for all the world and we cant stop to this artists & labels so like i say in the beginning this is a hard subject and we can make maybe 500 topics with this



Fugga
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  23
Posts :  203
Posted : Aug 23, 2005 16:58
Quote:

On 2005-08-11 04:24, sam i am wrote:
I think there's good stuff out there. I agree with the statement that now this music is becoming more popular there are more mediocre artists out there who wanna "rock the party". But quality music is always being made, in all genres, it just takes some sifting. Keep your eyes open for Hired Goonz - top quality, non-generic dancefloor inspiring morning melodic funkadelica from down under

Ocelot, I tried to send you a PM about your music (not the trance, the other stuff). Could you PM me if you're interested in sending out a demo? Cheers.

Quote:
On 2005-08-08 19:51, Willy Wonka wrote:
Ok Talpa is good production and music, musically wise it sound like amateur crap


I'm sorry but I must disagree with this statement. I think you're mistaking musicality with production standards, as many of Talpa's tracks are sensationally musical, especially when compared to the repetitiveness of most progressive house.




FUCK YER SAM KABAM I AM !!!

HIRED GOONZzZZZ!! NUERON COMPOST, I can't believe they are not in the eyes of the crowds yet, the first time i heard this music i wanted to create a label just so they could be heard MORE !!

AND TALPA is a fine example of inspiring fuck'n great music, that is in my opinion, and it is not that well produced, but the ideas stand out like nothing else !

and i do agree with other people when they mention, that it is really the LABELS FAULT !! and i do not think that any artist should be held responsable for creating there peice of work.
Saimon/Genetic Spin
Genetic Spin

Started Topics :  3
Posts :  27
Posted : Aug 23, 2005 17:50
Quote:

On 2005-08-08 15:27, Dot Kite wrote:
Dear all members of Isratrance,

I will not stop SHOUTHING to all the newcomer "artists" that are totally CRAP !

They edit unpleasurable music! They are not creative! They don't bring any kind of INNOVATION! And the worst thing is that they want to be "ROCK" stars......

I don't want to sound negative here, but unfortunately the situation is going worst day after day.....and the results are showing that we are going to a suicide.....

I would invite you to see why major QUALITY labels such as Matsuri productions, Blue Room releases, Flying Rhino.....and lately Spirit Zone are DEAD now....

We say that there are so many labels.....today...(well, this is true),
We say, the fault is that a lot of people DL music for free (partly is true)...

But the real reason is that those labels did not find GOOD QUALITY music to release....so they prefered to go out of business....


I would invite everybody who edit/compose/programm music to STOP for a momment and THINK the consequences of THEIR CRAPPY music.....and try to envision some high quality music....

Please, do not take this as a negative post....
take it as a FACT !

Best regards
Tms




Well first of all Mr. Dot Kite...Please answer this question: "DO U THINK THE ARTISTS YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT MAKES CRAP MUSIC ON PURPOSE ????"...I dont...YOU can think its crap, not innovate, not original, bad production etc. etc... fine!, thats YOUR oppinion...but music it is a matter of taste...NO Labels are forced to release "crap music" - NO organizer are forced to book "crap artists", And if it IS being released, YOU are not forced to buy it...so I dont realy see your point....

Second of all - Let me tell u a "secret"! EVERYBODY (or anyway the majority) start out making more or less crappy music!!, or at least not high quality, innovate, pioneering, crystal clear produced music!. "Learning by doing"...ring a bell ???

The only thing I can agree on in you post is that there ARE heaps of un-original, un-inspiring "copy-music" out there - also being released...and artists who get one release and think they are gods gift to trance!...

But in my oppinion there is a natural selection in this scene!, and this is not a major fact in low CD-sales ..

I never saw one of these "copy/crap" artists as you talk about realy making a breakthrough in the psy/trance-scene!!! - OK. maybe they get some releases, even some bookings, but as I see it, artists that realy has some respect and reputation in the scene..still is the ones that has a uniqe style, originality and good production....


A possitive thing about the fact that many people makes music - is that it makes it harder to stand out, make something special/original, which pushes (some) people in new directions...

Last of all, I still think their is some relay nice stuff being released, between all the "crap" u talk about...

Saimon
Dot Kite
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  35
Posts :  431
Posted : Aug 23, 2005 18:58
Quote:

On 2005-08-23 17:50, Saimon/Genetic Spin

Well first of all Mr. Dot Kite...Please answer this question: "DO U THINK THE ARTISTS YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT MAKES CRAP MUSIC ON PURPOSE ????"...I dont...YOU can think its crap, not innovate, not original, bad production etc. etc... fine!, thats YOUR oppinion...but music it is a matter of taste...NO Labels are forced to release "crap music" - NO organizer are forced to book "crap artists", And if it IS being released, YOU are not forced to buy it...so I dont realy see your point....

Second of all - Let me tell u a "secret"! EVERYBODY (or anyway the majority) start out making more or less crappy music!!, or at least not high quality, innovate, pioneering, crystal clear produced music!. "Learning by doing"...ring a bell ???

The only thing I can agree on in you post is that there ARE heaps of un-original, un-inspiring "copy-music" out there - also being released...and artists who get one release and think they are gods gift to trance!...

But in my oppinion there is a natural selection in this scene!, and this is not a major fact in low CD-sales ..

I never saw one of these "copy/crap" artists as you talk about realy making a breakthrough in the psy/trance-scene!!! - OK. maybe they get some releases, even some bookings, but as I see it, artists that realy has some respect and reputation in the scene..still is the ones that has a uniqe style, originality and good production....


A possitive thing about the fact that many people makes music - is that it makes it harder to stand out, make something special/original, which pushes (some) people in new directions...

Last of all, I still think their is some relay nice stuff being released, between all the "crap" u talk about...

Saimon



Dear Saimon,

I would like to answer to your questions...
Well, I don't think that those artists really want to produce "CRAP" music on purpose. Maybe they don't even know that what they do is not a fine elaborate production!

Secondly, I completely agree with you that music is a matter of taste, but from the other side, sound and production quality is not a matter of taste!

Then, of course, there is an evolution, a development and improvement in any artist as long as keeps on with producing music. But the question here is not this! Of course I don't expect "newcomers" to create the most sophisticated album or track!
What I would like to see is a mature approach to the music production! No amatuerisch-childish way....if you know what I mean!

Moreover, I would like to agree with you once again whe you say "A possitive thing about the fact that many people makes music - is that it makes it harder to stand out, make something special/original, which pushes (some) people in new directions..." but unfortunately i don't see something of really special!

Maybe is me, that I am used to be surrounded by high quality products....and i just can't stand the decadance of this scene....

Anyway, I want to thank you for sharing your thoughts with me and alla the Isratrance community...

Best regards
Tms
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