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COPYING KILLS OUR MUSIC
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traveller
IsraTrance Senior Member
Started Topics :
234
Posts :
3803
Posted : Sep 1, 2002 22:47
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A solution?
Trance labels start selling their own psychedelic patterned cd-r discs. I would pay a little extra for them if they looked really cool
  "The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn't have a space program."
- Larry Niven |
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KosMos
Drone
Started Topics :
15
Posts :
240
Posted : Sep 2, 2002 02:47
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Luiz Paulo:
No i have never bought a Medium release. I don't like any of them enough to buy them. (no I haven't downloaded any Medium releases)
danger:
I didn't say labels earn that money. I asked how much money they earn from a release. That figure was my unlucky attempt to find a logical explaination using my inadequate knowledge on music releasing.
in search for an answer... |
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lurk
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
32
Posts :
226
Posted : Sep 2, 2002 15:41
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I agree with catelepsy; as much as I hate mp3s and copies, and especially dj's that only play with these (and there are a lot here in amsterdam), I think the main reason for sales falling so dramatically is that it is a much more competitative market now. Sales may have gone down by 50%, but the number of labels out there seem to have doubled in the last couple of years too. On the plus side I do think there are more and more people getting into the music now, so hopefully this might start to be reflected in the sales figures soon.
I said no to drugs... but they didn't listen |
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morph27
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
52
Posts :
254
Posted : Sep 3, 2002 14:48
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cost i think is a major issue - its not going to solve anything making things cheaper but it will help - give me a blank boring cover inside an empty jewel case (no cover art) - i'm not that bothered what the front of a cd looks like - bring the cost down and i think that can help. In UK we have these companies(only comercial stuff) whereby you subscribe to them and you have to order at least 1 cd a month but at a discounted rate because you have made a commitment to them for a year - just an idea but maybe somthing along those lines? as many people have already said i dont think your gonna stop it but we gotta do somthing or were gonna lose the lot:( - one optimistic thing is at least within the psy scene there is plenty of contact between artists and producers and labels and fans - there has to be some sort of solution |
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Namhaj
Started Topics :
2
Posts :
22
Posted : Sep 5, 2002 05:58
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1 There is too much crap music out there, no one wants to waste their money on crap music, which I can totally understand. People don’t want to buy a whole compilation for 1 or maybe 2 tracks. The option to buy a single track (as mp3) should be available if people want that, its very possible to do this. If the labels/artists continue to release quality music, they will survive, those who do not, wont, which is completely fair in my opinion.
2 Downloading music is very easy to do and people really don’t feel like they are stealing because it is indirect ie. They aren’t actually breaking into someone’s house to steal it, its just a matter of clicking a button. The people, the listeners, the party goers, the DJ’s, need to become aware of this problem, if you think that its ok for you to download because there are still plenty of people out there buying music, your wrong cos many people are thinking this and that is why we have this discussion going right now. The music isnt just about taking drugs and dancing, it is commercial in the sense that it costs money, just like anything in this world, and if you stop paying for it, it will die, simple as that, and if some people think the music should stay non-commercialised and non-capitalist, you better wake up because the real world isn’t like this. Money makes the world go round whether you like it or not.
3 Import duty and shipping costs to some countries is ridiculously high, transferring music via the web eliminates these costs completely. Again, selling mp3’s will solve this problem, but the question I ask is: Will you, the listeners/DJ’s buy these mp3’s if they are available for you to buy? Or will you continue to download anyway? In the case for promos, the DJ’s of your choice can have access to areas of you site for promotion only, so that only the DJ’s can get these promos then afterward they are released. My point is, if people are going to download, you must supply a product that is downloadable, a combination of making the people aware of the problems of abusing the web for this and allowing them to give something back by giving them the option to pay for these mp3’s. I am unaware of anywhere on the web where you can by high quality mp3’s. (Probably due to the fact that a lot of people would refuse to pay even 5 cents for an mp3, this attitude needs to change as well I think)
4 What’s happening in America with the “big five” relates to the whole music industry, not just mainstream music, all music is suffering because the music industry is not adapting to the new technologies like it has done in the past ie. Cassette tapes. I believe personally that the labels need to adapt to the mp3 and cd burning revolution, rather than try to destroy it, this is where the world is going, if you want to survive we must embrace this technology and use it for what its worth rather than be raped by it. Its just like in nature, those species that adapt to new changes will survive.
5 Artists cant be expected to make their living solely from live sets, from my own experiences living so far away from Europe (im in Australia) most people don’t want to pay $2000 Australian dollars to fly me over there, and then on top of that pay me to play live (as well as pay for shipping all my equipment so I can play), if this is the case then you will never hear any new music from such far away countries. I mean im not the greatest artist out there but people like what I do and will come to see me play, its just financially impractical for party promoters to bring me to Europe to play. People can simply download, there is no need for me other than to keep making music for nothing….
6 Promotion has now become a problem with internet trading, labels need to promote their new music and to do this they send out promos to DJ’s to play at parties etc. But as has been stated already, the DJ’s themselves then rip these promos and then trade on the web, within a week most internet users and their friends will have these tunes and before they are released they are old. DJ’s are not the only culprits, it’s the labels as well, again from my own experiences I have sent out demos to labels, they tell me they are not interested and then next week I find it on the web, its ok to trade, but not to release? So for an upcoming artist, what can you do? You can only be sure that a label will not trade your music if they want to release it themselves, and this is never guaranteed, and if your music is on the web, no label in its right mind will release it, so making the track was a total waste of time (anywhere from 3 weeks to 2 months of work down the drain for nothing), why would you bother? I make the music because I love it, but when the situation is like this, I might as well just keep my music for myself and my friends, rather than everyone party hard while I work all week in a boring 9 to 5 job paying off the loans I have for my studio equipment, its simply not fair at all.
7 It appears that some people don’t care about fancy covers and t shirts and things, yet others want all this. Ok well the solution is that you provide your services to both audiences, you continue to produce cd’s and vinyl, but also sell mp3’s at high bit rate at a discount via the web. You give specials and deals to those who buy the cd’s and you give cheap mp3’s to those who want that, everyone is happy. Or you could even make custom mp3 compilations from your favourite label… Its just a matter of thinking of new ideas for the use of the technology.
I personally believe that we (listeners/labels/artists) should work together to solve this problem, its great that Bim has started this discussion and we can get ideas from all areas of the scene so we can all work together to keep this wonderful music alive, if we do not and things continue as they are, only the big names will survive and no new music will become available, and then eventually it will die completely. Look at the RIAA, they are now trying to pass laws in the US so they can hack suspected “traders” computers in retaliation for mp3 trading, this is ridiculous and it shows the attitude the RIAA and its friends has towards commercial music, its just money money money to them, their customers have now become their enemies. But because of this, all music is suffering now, I know people outside of trance music and they think by downloading even more music they are hurting the RIAA, they are, but the smaller labels and artists are getting hurt even more, but they seem to be forgotten about.
I don’t have all the answers and solutions, but I have ideas. I am starting my own label as well, and I will attempt to set up an online shop for mp3’s or any other ideas I or you can think of for using the internet for its good side rather than its dark side. I welcome more ideas as well, I believe we can keep this music alive as long as everyone becomes aware of the problems and takes the responsibility and initiative to take action to fix these problems. I think its Sharhar?? The Ghandi quote you have as you signature says it all “Be the change you want to see in the world” rather than think “who cares its nothing to do with me, someone else will fix it” realise that this music, this “scene”, is made up of a group of individuals, like yourself, and these individuals make this music what it is, so we all have a part to play in the solution to this problem, its not just up to the labels to provide you with cheaper prices and free t shirts, nor is it up to everyone to stop downloading or ban the internet! Its about everyone becoming aware of what keeps this music alive and taking the initiative to help sustain it within this changing world of ours. No one person or group is to blame, we all need to become aware of the changing world and how we will survive in it tomorrow.
One more thing, we mustn’t forget the distributors and taxes, they take a big chunk of the money that is made from record sales, its not about the labels not being able to maintain their limousines and pay their butlers, but its about survival, there is very little money in this style of music, its more a labour of love than making millions. So I hope that the people don’t think its about the labels being greedy for more money, we need to make a living also so we can continue to provide the wonderful music for you!
Overall I think that its not one thing that is causing the drop in sales, but a combination of things, and they have all been outlined in this thread.
Aahhh sorry for such a long rant, but this is a serious problem that we all need to talk about and hopefully resolve. Otherwise we can kiss our music good bye.
Ben Richardson
www.nervine-records.com
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BrainStorm
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
357
Posted : Sep 7, 2002 20:14
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I am agree with someone who said that even if cd will cost $5 there will be tons of people who will still download it.
The only way to make people buy your works is to produce REALLY high quality sound and covers and to sell it at reasonable price. $5 is too low, $18 is too high.. i think $10-12 is ok
Besides all, dont forget - illegal copying is the sign that your music is qualified and being loved by audience. It brings you new fans and its possible that many of those who got mp3s of your band will spread it over and you will get ever more new fans of your band.
Nothing you may change when cd*r costs around $100 and fast relatively internet axx costs around $30 for month.
On the other hand, the listeners arent the only ones who would make illegal copies of your albums.. think of the labels, few of them (or maybe even many) do copy and sell more then they inform you.
BrainStorm
http://www.mp3.com/whoracle
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Mate Y Magic M
Started Topics :
2
Posts :
19
Posted : Sep 9, 2002 14:39
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ONLY MONEY GRABING BASARDS BANCRUPT AND SUFFER don't put the music above God don't put the money above music and it will be O.K.
Wonna find me - kiss the rain... |
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bholenath
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
103
Posts :
1137
Posted : Sep 11, 2002 16:39
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We will never be able to agree on this debate
....good fudge comes on slow!!! |
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dj Hian
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
33
Posted : Sep 12, 2002 13:41
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Th solution it´s not easy, i think that the labels must make pressure in the goverments, because here in portugal we pay taxes for music that it´s a stupid because, we pay the lowest tax for culture, like a book, but the antagonic is that... if you buy a cd you are not buying culture but diversion, the principt is to pressure the govermants and make the prices lowest.
Adeus |
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Sputer
IsraTrance Senior Member
Started Topics :
315
Posts :
2709
Posted : Sep 12, 2002 14:21
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Look at the new Astrix CD.
17.90 $
something like 80 nis.
ITs fuckin expensive. But astrix will sell, Cuz many ppl like his music, But im sure if the price was something like 10 $ (something like 46 nis) it can sell alot !! even traders will buy.
..."Be yourself, let your conscience guide you...
Follow your heart, not the people around you"... |
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dj Hian
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
33
Posted : Sep 12, 2002 14:25
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i sawthe Bim´s post and i have top take more few words, the problem is about dj´s, you send promos to them and they publish on the internet, i play with vinyl and what i´m seeing is the dead of the vinyl, the lastr realeases are just minimalistic trance or club trance just a few labels editing good psy trance.
Here in portugal, you playing to a party and what you see, is that all dj´s or the maiority are playin with copys, that is inadimissible, and then they say the quality is the same i don´t need to buy it, is the labels, get more pressure in this disk jokeys to, maybe the things were a quite differente story.
DON´T STOP THE VINYL RELEASES PLZZZ!! |
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Dance N Dust
Dance N Dust
Started Topics :
83
Posts :
419
Posted : Sep 12, 2002 21:37
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hy here is asher, dance n dust rec.
please stop to copy and get music from internt,
soon will be no more trance labels any more
this trance seen is so small and so are the salles,when we copy music the salles is so bed
thet its fucked up the labels the artist and evry body alles |
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Borris
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
45
Posts :
1581
Posted : Sep 12, 2002 22:25
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I think that also Party organisers should start taking more DJ's that use Vinyl (unless it's producers of course) in Israel when I tell a promoter that I need turntables they start to think of excuses why they can't afford it. the promoters must be with us on this and not think only of their pockets.
Kinetic Honda GmbH, Worldwide Supliers of Quality noise.
Progression Sessions of the 3rd Empire! |
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bholenath
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
103
Posts :
1137
Posted : Sep 12, 2002 22:50
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Borris in a way your right, but also wrong. I agree with the pocket bit but u see if they give promo copies to DJs (ON VINYL) they have two pay a lot for it,Whereas on CDs they can duplicate it on their own and give it to the DJs and its cheaper for them....
....good fudge comes on slow!!! |
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morph27
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
52
Posts :
254
Posted : Sep 16, 2002 13:51
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think the only answer is for people to become much more aware of how big the problem is - and i think that will only come once a few other labels start going down - its not the most positive way of looking at it but unfortunately i dont see how else its going to be solved. If it gets to this stage hopefully a majority of people will change their minds about ow damamgeing this thing is. |
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