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CDJs Vs Digital Djing
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mubali
Mubali
Started Topics :
71
Posts :
2219
Posted : Jul 21, 2011 00:42
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Not your fault Will, I used to debate lobbyists in DC 
  An Eagle may soar, but Weasels don't get sucked into jet engines. |
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Braindrop
Braindrop
Started Topics :
140
Posts :
1730
Posted : Jul 21, 2011 18:34
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My o My... we got some storm goin on here.. Greg and will  .. Now i get it, when u mentioned what your reply was .. on facebook lol!
Well yes.. i've also mentioned before that it is.. extremely important.. one learns the basics of true djing (vinyl or cd) before dwelling into the digital one.
I'm just wanting to try something different in terms of dj'ing.. so was jsut trying to dwell into the new possibilities of digital dji'ng.... however my main question is, why is that people in this trance scene dont approve so much of going this way?.. i mean surely each to his own.... but umm... just curious....!
www.braindrop.in |
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willsanquil
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
93
Posts :
2822
Posted : Jul 21, 2011 21:43
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See, therein lies the stereotype and the bias.
You and many other people posit that:
In order to be a 'legit' or 'true' or 'real' DJ you need to spend some time spinning a platter with your finger and manually nudging tracks around. ONLY IN THIS WAY can you learn how to play stuff in time, learn the pitfalls of DJing, construct a nice sonic journey, etc etc.
That is demonstrably false even if some people fail at learning these lessons and perpetuate bad stereotypes.
People in the trance scene don't approve so much of going this way because they are biased and have let each successive bad laptop DJ further reinforce this bias.
You say it's "extremely important" to do Vinyl or CDJs first. Well, I didn't. My mixes are clean (though could always improve), I know how to keep stuff in time, I've gotten great reviews from the dancefloor - well, at least no one has run up and punched me in the face after my sets so I think I'm doing ok.
So, it is *NOT* true that you *NEED* to spin that platter first. By all means if you do, that's fine.
Also - how can you say that something is wrong if you didn't go through it yourself?
I am 99% sure that every single person on this thread who decries going digital first without learning on CDs or Vinyl learned on CDs or Vinyl first.
Just because you did it one way doesn't mean that everyone else has to in order to be legit and learn the lessons that you need to learn in order to play out successfully.
BTW I really hope my comments are not coming out dickish, I'm enjoying this discussion and I hope it continues
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch...you must first invent the universe
www.soundcloud.com/tasp
www.soundcloud.com/kinematic-records |
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Basilisk
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
168
Posts :
2984
Posted : Jul 23, 2011 03:48
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Quote:
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On 2011-07-21 21:43, willsanquil wrote:
In order to be a 'legit' or 'true' or 'real' DJ you need to spend some time spinning a platter with your finger and manually nudging tracks around. ONLY IN THIS WAY can you learn how to play stuff in time, learn the pitfalls of DJing, construct a nice sonic journey, etc etc. |
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I'm certainly not saying physical media is the only way to learn, though it certainly has some advantages while digital DJing becomes more established. Although the learning curve for physical media might be a little higher, there is something to be said for focusing on the basics (beatmatching, programming) before moving into what we might call more advanced techniques (effects, loops, etc.). With software the newcomer is overwhelmed with many different options and, at times, ambiguous signposts and less guidance than one might have with physical media. None of this will stop a dedicated and hard-working individual with an intuitive grasp of digital DJing... but it does make it a little less user-friendly than the more traditional options, in part because of the power of software. Would I advise an aspiring DJ to pursue physical media now? Hell no. But I would caution any wannabes that digital DJing is way more complex, and that doing your homework and purchasing a controller is absolutely essential. Plenty of DJs don't bother, perhaps because the barrier to entry is way lower (i.e. $0) than with physical media, which at least required a bit of a commitment to purchase equipment and music. I don't know what else explains all those DJs that don't know what the word "latency" means, nor that there are weird little glitches in the music they are playing.
Of course, similar statements could be made about the democratization of the tools of music production  |
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mudpeople
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
113
Posts :
1785
Posted : Jul 23, 2011 18:14
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I can mix just fine with cdjs and plan to carry cds along with my laptop. Ive always been mroe of the mind to be prepared for whatever i might find up there...
But if I can take the time I spend on just synchronizing and keeping in sync the channels, and use it for more creative means, or even just to really listen and enjoy the music instead of concentrating on sync or whatnot... Theres no question in my mind.
I dont understand the idea that 'laptop = pretend', i do get the idea of prearranged just press play sets, and thats not only a lame idea to me, its boring, i mean, what does one do after pressing play? Act, i guess. Ive always been a fan of actors who arent just acting but BECOMING their character. I guess I try to do the same thign when mixing; just rock out like im alone at home, play the stuff I like to rock out to, and so far, Ive had fun every time even if theres no one dancing.
It just kinda seems like too much work to try and fake it. Plus Ive always tried to adhere to teh idea that teh best way to avoid getting caught in a lie is to always tell the truth and be 100% genuine. It takes a bit of work to arrange a set to press play and forget it, why anyone would rather do it that way than in realtime, idk.
To me Id rather just, play music, however. But I do like teh open options of digital...
In regards to beginning djs; I find hardware to be much more intuitive and much easier to learn than software, at least Ableton. I spent a great deal mroe time learning the warping than I did beatmatching. Lots of Live's interface isn't really teh most obvious whereas, a 2 channel mixer, well, its hard to NOT understand a basic 2chan/3band.
I mix pretty much teh same as I did with hardware, and i have my microKONTROL laid out as a basic dj mixer. Theres some stark differences between a general purpose midi controller and a dj mixer, that made getting used to it a bit of work. The one importnant thing to remember about controllers like that; be GENTLE. Me, used to Pioneer DJMs, was roking out one day, working the volume fade, which suddenly was very loose, and much longer than it should have been. I looked in my hand, which was about a foot above the surface; there was a strange piece of silver plastic there!
Yeajh it was a fader. Theyre only seated in a very tiny sliding mount, maybe a centimeter deep.
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daio
Started Topics :
7
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338
Posted : Jul 24, 2011 20:49
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something common of mixing in digital and vinyl:you can see the waveforns,cuts and stuff,something that cdjs don't have and it's a big - ...having to measure time... |
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Dennis the menace
Moderator
Started Topics :
128
Posts :
2899
Posted : Jul 25, 2011 01:35
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Quote:
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On 2011-07-21 21:43, willsanquil wrote:
You say it's "extremely important" to do Vinyl or CDJs first. Well, I didn't. My mixes are clean (though could always improve), I know how to keep stuff in time, I've gotten great reviews from the dancefloor - well, at least no one has run up and punched me in the face after my sets so I think I'm doing ok.
So, it is *NOT* true that you *NEED* to spin that platter first. By all means if you do, that's fine.
I am 99% sure that every single person on this thread who decries going digital first without learning on CDs or Vinyl learned on CDs or Vinyl first.
Just because you did it one way doesn't mean that everyone else has to in order to be legit and learn the lessons that you need to learn in order to play out successfully.
BTW I really hope my comments are not coming out dickish, I'm enjoying this discussion and I hope it continues
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I hope your mixes are just as clean when your computer decides to crash on you with a crowded dancefloor and you have to use the cd players that are provided.
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On 2011-07-24 20:49, daio wrote:
something common of mixing in digital and vinyl:you can see the waveforns,cuts and stuff,something that cdjs don't have and it's a big - ...having to measure time...
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A.Rosengren
Solid Snake
Started Topics :
266
Posts :
4138
Posted : Jul 25, 2011 02:15
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I think I forgot to say something, if I had 2 cdj's and a mixer standing here I would definately use them. But I already do in the box mixing in ableton and I am now trying to learn traktor (since I already have all the equipment needed to do so)
So don't get me wrong, I appreciate the delicate process of mixing aswell. It's just that it doesn't bother me if someone does it just as good digitally.
Just to clear it up.
A
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A.Rosengren
Solid Snake
Started Topics :
266
Posts :
4138
Posted : Jul 25, 2011 02:15
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And btw, dennis the menace now taking booking offers on 190bpm+ gigs.
A
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Dennis the menace
Moderator
Started Topics :
128
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2899
Posted : Jul 25, 2011 02:23
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lol, thanx for the reminder ive had it after this weekend, im back to 125 for the rest of this summer.
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willsanquil
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
93
Posts :
2822
Posted : Jul 25, 2011 08:53
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Quote:
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On 2011-07-25 01:35, Dennis the menace wrote:
I hope your mixes are just as clean when your computer decides to crash on you with a crowded dancefloor and you have to use the cd players that are provided.
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Hehe. I have a backup CD that I put into the CDJ provided and I thankfully have not had to use it yet.
It actually has a bunch of silly samples bitching about laptop DJs and pressing play in the intro of the track, I kind of wish my computer *would* crash so that I could use it.
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch...you must first invent the universe
www.soundcloud.com/tasp
www.soundcloud.com/kinematic-records |
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supergroover
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
39
Posts :
1505
Posted : Jul 25, 2011 12:20
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I am with Will here.
If you learn to do your job on a laptop it is just as 'true' as cd or vinyl djing. Cdjing was not cool in the beginning and now laptopdjing isnt cool. Just wait 5 years and cds are all gone.
One of your jobs as a dj is to make sure your medium is working well. Make sure your cds arent scratched. Make sure your laptop is working properly. Than you don't have to worry about crashes, glitches etc.
Personally I am finding it a bit bullshit to keep wasting plastic for music when it is in my computer already. I might as well keep it in there. That also saves me from having to carry 3 cd cases...
soundcloud.com/supergroover |
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daio
Started Topics :
7
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338
Posted : Jul 26, 2011 16:56
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i bought a toshiba to connect my cdjs via timecode and unfortunately had some serious dropouts...made some settings on windows and traktor but as i read there are some models that you can't avoid them 100%...anyways i'm not a pro...point is that if someone has a descent laptot whithout bugs and whith the evolution that NI for example has made whith traktor anyone can be safe when mixing!
btw all live acts in trance play whith laptop! whith many more channels running...
@dennis the menace:is that cdj 2000?well that's evolution too... |
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willsanquil
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
93
Posts :
2822
Posted : Jul 27, 2011 01:34
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See - I don't really understand how traktor does it sync. Is it all done for you and then you rarely have to nudge it back on time?
That seems like an example of tech doing 'too much' work for my liking but maybe I'm uninformed.
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch...you must first invent the universe
www.soundcloud.com/tasp
www.soundcloud.com/kinematic-records |
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daio
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
338
Posted : Jul 27, 2011 02:57
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not about sync button...doesn't need to use it when handling whith cdjs...i'm talking about audio dropouts,glithces and pops and generally latency problems that a maschine can have these days only if it's defective,or older technology!toshiba has pretty much models whith problems,really good maschines,not for sound though! |
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