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Trance Forum  Forum  DJing - CDJs Vs Digital Djing
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CDJs Vs Digital Djing

Shiranui
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :  116
Posts :  1219
Posted : Aug 27, 2011 12:36
Quote:

On 2011-08-23 00:21, Login wrote:
A good track doesnt need a buch of efx or samples played on top to move the dancefloor.

in reality there was never a need for more technlogy in djing, as opossed to production. It still enough to play two good track well mixed.



What is "well mixed?"

in the vinyl days "well mixed" meant beatmatched as well as you could do by hand, and then mixed using a 3-band EQ (if your mixer even HAD EQ, some just had faders)

Now we have automatic syncing which is more perfect than you can ever do by hand. We have looping and reverb which lets you bring a track more gradually and subtly, and we have filters and keylock and pitchshift to make the mix even better-sounding.

Yes you can mix "good enough" with vinyl, but you can mix better with a computer.

And my point, which I'll repeat from earlier, is that DJs are turning into producers and producers are turning into DJs. You don't see this so much in the psytrance world but look at house or hip hop or dubstep.
V3NOM
Inactive User

Started Topics :  131
Posts :  2234
Posted : Aug 30, 2011 02:40
Well firstly CD is digital, and CD was much easier to cue and mix than vinyl so digital seems to be just the next logical step.

While I do think there is skill in mixing with vinyl, always the track selection is the most important. In drum & bass Goldie is considered a terrible dj but his track selection and ability to read the crowd more than make up for his mixing, and the sales for his gigs show that.

I would rather here a dj use beat synching so that the set flows smoothly, and have good tracks than just good tracks or just ability to beat match.

I wish Goa Gil for example would stop his shitty train wreck mixing and get some digital gear.

I also think that even with technology some producers should not be DJing. Just because you have the talent to create new music does not mean you have the ability to make a good dj set. I own plenty of mixed CDs across the EDM spectrum by producers that just FAIL majorly.

          I hate you, you hate me, we are all so hap hap happy!
mudpeople
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  113
Posts :  1785
Posted : Aug 30, 2011 13:08
Ive heard that some people feel that changing the pitch of a track goes against the original artist's vision...

But idk, I prefer fluidity, in individuals' sets and throughout the whole gig, I like to find that I just danced for however many hours without noticing, to me breaking up the flow makes it much easier to remember that I have a body, that might be tired, and gee doesnt that ground over there look like it would be great to sit on... zzzzzzzzz....

Personally, I feel that if the person(s) up onstage play tracks that they feel are really good, and enjoy listening to, that shows thru in their performance, and whether or not the music is exactly what ppl want to hear they catch the rocking-out vibe in one way or another, and have a good time and stop taking life so seriously for a little while.

Ive seen major name EDM djs wreck trains HARDCORE. Ive seen major name, non-Gil trance djs 2-shoes their whole set. The dancers didnt seem to mind, and Ive come to appreciate just getting to hear trance played on a big system which in this neck of the woods is nearly non-existant (except this week at Burning Man you jerks get to see Rastaliens not 2 hrs from here and all the rest). The dancefloor just wants music, and generally it doesnt mind missed beatmatches or even Skazi tracks so long as its got a beat you can shake ya ass to.

Personally Im of the idea that, if I had my way, the dj wouldn't even be visible, I mean, why are djs so idolized? Its not hard to do if you got the gear, time and will. Its not even really art, its more like engineering, whic h is like, what art would be if it was made by machines, that were made by people who had no sense of humor.

And look at this thread, most of us are djs, should go to show just who exactly really cares about technique and precision. I for one have never cared to impress anyone but myself. Im a tough critic too.

          .
Login
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  65
Posts :  1704
Posted : Aug 30, 2011 18:29
Turnabilism can be art.

Traditional djing is more like a craft, its kind of easy to master the skills, the hard part is having the taste for the music and reading the crowd.           "The dedication to repetition the search for nirvana in a single held tone or an endlessly cycling rhythm is one of electronic music's noblest gestures."
Shiranui
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :  116
Posts :  1219
Posted : Aug 31, 2011 18:56
Turntablism can be art:







but so can digital mixing:








Neither of these are really "DJing".
willsanquil
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  93
Posts :  2822
Posted : Sep 1, 2011 03:02
I don't see how anyone could say that the second video is DJing. That's live triggering, and far removed from 'traditional' djing where you mix two tracks together.            If you want to make an apple pie from scratch...you must first invent the universe
www.soundcloud.com/tasp
www.soundcloud.com/kinematic-records
Shiranui
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :  116
Posts :  1219
Posted : Sep 8, 2011 11:41
He's using traktor, which is usually considered a DJing app.

Just as the turntablist is using decks and a mixer, which is usually considered a DJ setup.

I don't think you could consider this DJing either, although many people would refer to it as such:







Here's someone also using NI hardware doing something which is somewhat closer to DJing:





Shiranui
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :  116
Posts :  1219
Posted : Sep 8, 2011 11:45
My point is, using the same hardware/software you can mix DJing techniques with live/production techniques in the same performance, and so the line between DJ and producer is pretty blurry.

Here's more traktor/maschine stuff:

















Shiranui
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :  116
Posts :  1219
Posted : Sep 8, 2011 11:51
Traktor 2 even lets you have sample banks alongside your decks, or even ALL sample banks and no decks (if I remember correctly)

So we have people DJing with ableton, which is a producer tool. We also have people basically composing music live with traktor, which is a DJ tool.

How do you separate DJing from production/livepa now?

Obviously this separation is very clear in the psy scene because producers don't sample very heavily and DJs mix very simply, but psytrance doesn't exist in a bubble and these techniques will eventually make their way over.

The major thing stopping people from doing live psytrance with something like traktor is the limited choice of effects/processing. You only get two effects units and I'm not sure if you can even chain them together. I'm sure someone can find a way...
Dennis the menace
Moderator

Started Topics :  128
Posts :  2899
Posted : Sep 9, 2011 17:26
4 units, with 3 slots each and yes you can chain them
willsanquil
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  93
Posts :  2822
Posted : Sep 9, 2011 19:00
Shiranui I don't mean to nitpick but Ableton is as much a DJ/performance tool as it is a producer tool - though I agree that the boundaries between DJing and production are getting blurred.            If you want to make an apple pie from scratch...you must first invent the universe
www.soundcloud.com/tasp
www.soundcloud.com/kinematic-records
Dennis the menace
Moderator

Started Topics :  128
Posts :  2899
Posted : Sep 10, 2011 10:44
~3 hours recorded livestream with cdj vs digital





constantin sankathi


Started Topics :  0
Posts :  57
Posted : Sep 14, 2011 11:31
Unfortunately i never heard any really good DJ in the psytrance-scene. And i heard a lot. And since we have all that digital DJing it is getting worser and worser. Psytrance and Progressive DJs can do nice presets with the laptop. Or they know how to beatmatch with traktor. But they have no clue how to play two tracks in a row which are fitting really together. They have no feeling to do long mixes. They have no idea about interesting or fresh tracks. They have no talent to present some unusal and exciting material. Sad but true.
           the hymn of the universe the beginning of time the cosmic truth the infinity of being
mudpeople
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  113
Posts :  1785
Posted : Sep 15, 2011 13:17
Persoally when i mixed CDs i would often feel like a whole set would go by without my noticing, or more specifically, without my enjoyment, or even remembering what tracks I played.

Now I started mixing for my own enjoyment, and well, that wasn't always the most enjoyable (at a party if it goes like that im ok with it, cuz hey i got to play a gig, and if I dont remember my set in detail, that must mean it went off without any major hitches).

Head buried in the sync and blends...

But again i do this for my own fun, and if anyone else enjjoys it too, bonus, but I do it all the time all alone, playing to the Universe. Live lets me be more spectator than performer, which I like the sound of. Ideally Id be on teh dancefloor, I mean, Im playing tracks I freakin LOVE, and Im stuck up there... BUT...

Thats an argument for another technological breakthrough.... (wearable computers, gestural interfaces, already are everywhere, you may already talk into one, that could run Live or Traktor or whatnot reasonably well, perhaps in a year or 2 after 30 generation increases and perhaps a technological singularity, one can hope.... OSC gives me that hope)

          .
Catweazle


Started Topics :  9
Posts :  133
Posted : Sep 15, 2011 16:14
I do see the potential in mixing with Ableton or Traktor. But for me, I want to take my CDJ Skills to the max before putting hands on Software. I think the mixing basics are much easier with Tractor etc.. than with MK's or CDJ. I recently heard a statement of a so called DJ, which made me really sad. Quote: You know, the great thing about mixing with traktor is, that I can get wasted as hell and my mix still sounds good, because it's that fucking easy.

WTF...           http://soundcloud.com/catweazle-psytrance-music
www.facebook.com/chillweazle
Trance Forum  Forum  DJing - CDJs Vs Digital Djing
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