| Author
|
180 bpm+
|
MR VOMERS
Datavore
Started Topics :
36
Posts :
2094
Posted : Mar 9, 2011 20:17
|
@xf --- i just plan on doing lots of experimentation with sound...there's some growly stuff in the works if that is what you are after...but lots of people do that i'm not trying to get stuck sounding like 1 specific thing 
boom!
  WARNING: The Reality Master General has determined that Mr. Vomit may significantly alter your reality. Usage of the knowledge provided by Mr. Vomit may be perceived as dangerous and subversive by those in authority. |
|
|
|
Dark Baba G
Started Topics :
0
Posts :
12
Posted : Mar 9, 2011 20:43
|
|
rich
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
103
Posts :
2184
Posted : Mar 9, 2011 21:10
|
Not saying whether I like any of these examples or not, but responding to Beat Agency, I have to say that to me this stuff has as much validity as psytrance than some of the minimal blip blop stuff or even the cheesy full on ravE stuff out there, (which to me is totally devoid of trance elements).
The (uncomfortable to some) truth is the boundaries for 'what is psytrance' will continually get pushed further as those who are drawn to psytrance apply their own connection, history and taste to their creation.
It's inevitable. Like when minimal evolved at the turn of the century. So many people were upset and disillusioned with psytrance, that it had gone in that direction. A lot of people claiming it lost its spiritual quality. (Now we look back on that stuff is quintessential psychedelic trance).
I saw that happen with punk rock in the mid 80s when for example Black Flag started veering off the fast and short and into abstract guitar work and spoken lyrics. They got so much shit for it, but it was still punk rock. It sure wasn't anything else. My 3 chord 30 second thrash band got bashed by some when we learned to play our instruments better and incorporated our metal roots to our music and started growing our hair out haha.
I say let them create. If not for other people's enjoyment, then their own. It's all pretty much free anyway, no one's making a buck off this and force feeding the masses.
And of course, the space to criticize, er, critique, is wide open as well
|
|
|
|
rich
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
103
Posts :
2184
Posted : Mar 9, 2011 22:14
|
I disagree. This terrornoise stuff is overly distorted and repetitious without sense behind it and seems to be created for what sounds to me like a superficial effect on the listener.
I don't feel it is created with the same intention as cinderV's stuff. Which for me plays a huge part in the underlying quality of the music and it's effects on me when I'm listening to it.
That's just me listening to both and hearing what I'm hearing. Everyone comes with different ears. My dad would say they sound the same, unless I sat him down and had him really pay attention.
|
|
|
|
xf_a49
Started Topics :
1
Posts :
12
Posted : Mar 9, 2011 22:20
|
@rich: amen to your perspective. psy is always going to evolve, new sounds will always be introduced. there will always be an audience from the psy community, cos i find it hard to believe that there won't be a few like minded people.
@cinderVOMIT: i completely see your point, and, i'm no after one specific sound. i've been planning on producing psy for a while, dark, and i have an affinity for fast basslines, so i wanted to see what all is out there at present, other than what i have already heard. looking to make new sounds. but as you said purely experimental. |
|
|
|
xf_a49
Started Topics :
1
Posts :
12
Posted : Mar 9, 2011 22:22
|
|
@Beat Agency: i think there is a vast difference between, the terranoise links you posted and dark psy. in agreement with rich. |
|
|
|
Beat Agency
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
53
Posts :
1752
Posted : Mar 9, 2011 22:26
|
Quote:
|
On 2011-03-09 22:22, xf_a49 wrote:
@Beat Agency: i think there is a vast difference between, the terranoise links you posted and dark psy. in agreement with rich.
|
|
There is one similarity which was my point. The die hard BPM fascination. Tell me why all dark psy has to be so fast and by rule around 160 - 200 bpm?
I also think the there are more similarities such as noise and music that you cant get into a state of trance with IMO:
www.beatagency.dk |
|
|
|
willsanquil
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
93
Posts :
2822
Posted : Mar 9, 2011 22:29
|
validity in what sense? That it's a valid form of musical expression?
I don't think anyone can reasonably argue that one form of music is more or less 'valid' than any other if you're reducing the conversation to pure taste, as its completely subjective. One person's Mozart is another person's Justin Beiber.
However, I still think there's some merit to a conversation about what music is 'valid' in terms of inducing trance states in the dancer. I'm not so sure that it is as subjective as a taste issue, though I'm open to debate on the subject.
What does everyone else think? I've heard it mentioned frequently on this forum that the BPM doesn't matter, only the quality of the music matters - I would definitely agree if you are referring to the ability for different people to enjoy the music, but I'm leaning towards BPM having an impact on the trance dance experience particularly.
I can only go off of personal observations here and a bit of hear-say evidence +Wiki, but for *me* I've only experienced trance states (on a dancefloor ) from music that is in the range of ~130-150. I've certainly danced to music faster and slower than that, but slower than that and I don't feel much dance energy from the track, faster than that I'm excercising too frenetically to put myself into trance. Of course there will always be exceptions, but I find this general rule doesn't get broken all too often.
Doing a bit of research on this, it seems that over the course of human history there have been many, many different methods of inducing trance:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trance
and within these various methods I assume there is a wide range of different speeds - I wonder what the BPM range on tribal percussion is? On its face this variability in speed of trance induction methods would seem to discredit my own personal observations of only being placed into a trance state courtesy of music at a certain tempo.
Fascinating topic, would love to hear what other people think about this.
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch...you must first invent the universe
www.soundcloud.com/tasp
www.soundcloud.com/kinematic-records |
|
|
|
xf_a49
Started Topics :
1
Posts :
12
Posted : Mar 9, 2011 22:35
|
@Beat Agency: IMO, the terrorcore/psycore is more like techno music. not psy. only the bpm is similar. basslines vary greatly. not psy at all. dark psy doesn't have to always be that fast. i personally like it that fast. not looking for agreement, just broadening horizons. personally, like i stated before, slower BPM does not entice me to dance on a trip. that;s a personal flaw. and at high BPMs when dancing, the consciousness achieved is insane.
|
|
|
|
willsanquil
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
93
Posts :
2822
Posted : Mar 9, 2011 22:37
|
Quote:
|
On 2011-03-09 22:26, Beat Agency wrote:
There is one similarity which was my point. The die hard BPM fascination. Tell me why all dark psy has to be so fast and by rule around 160 - 200 bpm?
I also think the there are more similarities such as noise and music that you cant get into a state of trance with IMO:
|
|
To be fair, not all socalled 'dark' psy is in that BPM range - the twilight stuff that I really enjoy is actaully in the 'standard' trance range of mid 140s. For instance, Megalopsy's album The Abstract Machine IIRC doesn't go above 148, and it's pretty dark. Same with some of Ocelot's stuff. There are plenty of examples, though I wish there were more.
However, I do agree that there is an obsession with higher BPMs being associated with 'new sound'. I'm sorry, but faster does not mean its any different. It just means it is faster. At some point, it becomes ridiculous. OK, so you can make a track at 160, so why not 170? why not 180? Fuck, my DAW can go up to 999 BPM, why not go for the super new sound and try to produce it at that tempo?
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch...you must first invent the universe
www.soundcloud.com/tasp
www.soundcloud.com/kinematic-records |
|
|
|
xf_a49
Started Topics :
1
Posts :
12
Posted : Mar 9, 2011 22:37
|
|
@dark baba G: only intro sample, no track? |
|
|
|
Beat Agency
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
53
Posts :
1752
Posted : Mar 9, 2011 22:38
|
|
I do think there is also a similarity in bass lines. They both just goes ra ta ta all the time. No variation whatsoever. We wont agree. Bottom line is I dont think either has anything to do with trance as in "Getting into a state of trance". The faster your heartbeat goes with music the more hard it gets to get into a state of trance unless you fill your body with chemicals.
www.beatagency.dk |
|
|
|
rich
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
103
Posts :
2184
Posted : Mar 9, 2011 22:45
|
Quote:
|
On 2011-03-09 22:26, Beat Agency wrote:
Quote:
|
On 2011-03-09 22:22, xf_a49 wrote:
@Beat Agency: i think there is a vast difference between, the terranoise links you posted and dark psy. in agreement with rich.
|
|
There is one similarity which was my point. The die hard BPM fascination. Tell me why all dark psy has to be so fast and by rule around 160 - 200 bpm?
I also think the there are more similarities such as noise and music that you cant get into a state of trance with IMO:
|
|
I was actually going to reply yesterday to this thread berating the high bpm fascination as novice producers getting a hard on for speed with reckless abandon and no sense of actual good USE for it. It's like a teenager given a racing car. Sure he can step on the gas blast off at 200 mph but can he handle it? What's he doing with the speed? Is he able to drive tactfully? Most often with dark psy it sounds like the same thing. Look how fast I can go weeee! now I'll throw in a cartoon sample, or a woman screaming, that'll sure 'challenge' them!
I hate that crap.
(I don't hear that in CinderV's tracks. He's used to the speed and is creating space in it.)
Can one trance to it? I've given in to the fact that, if someone says they can, then what the hell. What are you going to do, argue with them? If I can't, then I can't. If they have their eyes closed, moving to it and going to a deeper space within, I'm be a dick to shake them and say "Ha! This isn't trance!"
I listened to cinderV's tracks (sitting here in my cube at work) and found myself rocking to a couple of the tracks. Even snapping my fingers on the (4th beat  ) when a funky syncopated percussion came in.
Creating music with a mature sense of your elements is what it's about and what I'm drawn to.
|
|
|
|
xf_a49
Started Topics :
1
Posts :
12
Posted : Mar 9, 2011 22:46
|
@ willsanquil: i am in agreement, but faster means more dancing, so more energy is spent, so more can be can be consumed.
i'm not refuting that there is slower dark, and i am a fan of that also, but like i said, looking to make new, faster sounds, but not go overboard obviously. i'm just of the opinion that some chemicals give you a lot of energy and fast music is an effective accompaniment.
@ Beat Agency: There are several variations in the basslines of dark psy tracks.
getting in a state of trance can be achieved in pure silence also. try Ravi Shankar.
Also, i am a supporter of lsd, hence my opinions are such. |
|
|
|
willsanquil
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
93
Posts :
2822
Posted : Mar 9, 2011 22:47
|
I would like to note that there is a difference between rocking out/having a good time/going crazy on the dance floor and having a trance experience. Just as sometimes drugs can be a distraction and detract from the trance experience, the music can be as well, be it full-on with ridiculously huge breakdowns and buildups or super-glitch 666 BPM darkpsy.
There have been many times where I have been freaking out to crazy music, jumping around dancing - having a shitload of fun - but I'm not in trance.
My experience with darkpsy dance floors has been that the majority of the people seem to be rocking out and not trancing. Nothing wrong with that at all, but I do find that there is a difference. Could possibly be my biased perspective, but I've heard the same thing from others as well.
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch...you must first invent the universe
www.soundcloud.com/tasp
www.soundcloud.com/kinematic-records |
|
|
|
