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What about FAKE?
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Just_the_simple_truth
Started Topics :
0
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18
Posted : Jun 16, 2005 20:15
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On 2005-06-16 20:04, Lithium wrote:
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On 2005-06-16 19:42, psysurf wrote:
just the simple truth:
How much a normal person has that to work to earn what an artist earns making one lie (fake)?
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psysurf with all the respect try to see things in other perpective. do you have any idea of the thousands and i mean thousands of hours an artists spends creating the live act. |
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agree, and a gigs doesnt come that often even if you get 1000e for it. |
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DJ Buju
IsraTrance Full Member
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70
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1334
Posted : Jun 16, 2005 20:32
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On 2005-06-16 20:03, Outolintu wrote:
here we go:
i don't think anybody has played a 100% live set if we're talking about multi layered electronic music such as psy trance.
think about the amount of equipment and musicians you would need to play something like that. for example:
usually artists tend to take full advantage of their equipment and use many different patches in the same track, often simultaniously too. that means that if the artist uses for example 6 patches of a multitimbral synth there would have to be 6 synths with 6 players on stage and so on. i think you get the picture. it's impossible.
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1) Nothing is impossible 
2) How about playing stuff of the Laptop but also having other musicians playing with you, learning the parts you wrote and playing them on different instruments. making something not so usual, something different & unique.
By doing that you could also reach other markets/crowd of people, people that are interested in seeing LIVE artists with electronic music. in other styles of electronic music it exsits but not in psy-trance.
Hell if I knew of an act that preforms LIVE with 6 musicians on stage playing MAD electronic music I got get so many of my friends/family to come over to see them cause there would be a point to it and it would be special.
Now thats just me but I'm sure many other people think the same way and would be into the idea.
So then we say we are a small scene ( Maybe we wanna keep it that way ) but hey the more unique you are the more people you can reach and play your music 2.
Yes promoters wouldn't pay for 6 artists ( maybe the brave ones will ) for a live show. But if there is big budget and the act if worth it, it's all dueable 
please the ones who were about to start coming on the money point hold your horses
My 2 Cents 
 www.domorecords.com
www.myspace.com/domorec
www.myspace.com/tupanrecords |
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HandA
Inactive User
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890
Posted : Jun 16, 2005 20:39
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I see it like this. Eigter your are a amature or your are a professional artist.
If you charge money from your performance then your a professional artist and then you should make sure your liveact is professional and not just a mouse click to start the playback.
Now some here say that it's harder to play real live in trance than in a rock/pop band. I could not disagree more. Keyboard players, guitarists ect. in rock/pop bands also use effects on their sounds and they still manage to play very complex rythms, sequence etc. There's no excuse why the "artists" in our scene cant do that. The only reason why they get away with it is because people still buy tickets to see them. How long do you think a rock/pop band would last if they played playback?
I am not saying they should play all 100% but they could do a much bigger effort to actually work for the money they earn.
In the end it's all about talent and I dare to claim that 99.9% of this scene's artists dont know how to play an instrument at all. Then you can say they are "producers". Well most producers I know in the established industry do play instruments too
Then we get to another point. Too much drug abuse and "it's all fun and no hard work" attitude. Now I am not going to mention any names but I cant count on how many times I have seen "artists" so hazed and gone on drugs that all they could do was just about manage to click the mouse to start the "show". I see a live performance as a job. A job to entertain people - NOT myself!But too many artists see it as a party where they themselve are the main focus and no.1 priority.
It's ok to party but do that after the job is done. After all people pay a lot of money to see the artists. So be professional and give people the value of their money. All it take is creativity and of course talent and hard work. Guess the last 2 are the hardest part
Our scene's artists are spoiled brats with huge ego's. Maybe they could do with a huge wake up call and maybe people should consider to start to boycot those artists that steal their money with fake live performances? |
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Outolintu
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
63
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1477
Posted : Jun 16, 2005 20:47
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On 2005-06-16 20:32, DJ Buju wrote:
2) How about playing stuff of the Laptop but also having other musicians playing with you, learning the parts you wrote and playing them on different instruments. making something not so usual, something different & unique.
By doing that you could also reach other markets/crowd of people, people that are interested in seeing LIVE artists with electronic music. in other styles of electronic music it exsits but not in psy-trance.
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yeah, we've done that a couple of times:
had a trumpet and a trombone player and a guitarist, another time a midi-accordion player and hell, even a dancing bear once 
and i was talking about a 100% PSYTRANCE live
in my 10 cents above. most people get pissed off if they see even a guitar on stage
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Outolintu
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
63
Posts :
1477
Posted : Jun 16, 2005 20:58
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On 2005-06-16 20:39, HandA wrote:
If you charge money from your performance then your a professional artist and then you should make sure your liveact is professional and not just a mouse click to start the playback.
Now some here say that it's harder to play real live in trance than in a rock/pop band. I could not disagree more. Keyboard players, guitarists ect. in rock/pop bands also use effects on their sounds and they still manage to play very complex rythms, sequence etc.
Then we get to another point. Too much drug abuse and "it's all fun and no hard work" attitude. Now I am not going to mention any names but I cant count on how many times I have seen "artists" so hazed and gone on drugs that all they could do was just about manage to click the mouse to start the "show". |
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i agree with your first point and i didn't say anything of the opposite kind.
in your second point you missed my point .
but i don't have the energy to start debating with you cause i know you and your ways from different threads. you're thick headed like a mule and really carry a big grudge against this scene and want to let everybody else have their piece of it too.
if you want a real live go see a jazz band
one question: i understand you are an artist too? what is your live like then?
with your third point i agree and disagree cause this is not just a problem in the psy scene. funny that you put it that way. if you think of jimi hendrix, the who and all the other big and talented names who've been totally fu#Īed up on stage.
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HandA
Inactive User
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
890
Posted : Jun 16, 2005 21:12
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On 2005-06-16 20:58, Outolintu wrote:
but i don't have the energy to start debating with you cause i know you and your ways from different threads. you're thick headed like a mule and really carry a big grudge against this scene and want to let everybody else have their piece of it too.
if you want a real live go see a jazz band
with your third point i agree and disagree cause this is not just a problem in the psy scene. funny that you put it that way. if you think of jimi hendrix, the who and all the other big and talented names who've been totally fu#Īed up on stage.
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I was not at all refering to your post so hold your horses.
About the drug abouse I refered to our scene because that's what this debate is about. I am very well aware of that drugs are abused in rock/pop too. That was not my point. So dont try to make it seem like I am "out to get" our scene!
And Hendrix worked very hard and actually played his guitar live + rehearsed with his band and played many liveacts perfect
Yet another fine example of how some certain people over and over again always read my posts the way they like to understand them instead of how my posts are meant to be understood |
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Just_the_simple_truth
Started Topics :
0
Posts :
18
Posted : Jun 16, 2005 21:16
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On 2005-06-16 20:39, HandA wrote:
If you charge money from your performance then your a professional artist and then you should make sure your liveact is professional and not just a mouse click to start the playback.
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I can agree on that.
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In the end it's all about talent and I dare to claim that 99.9% of this scene's artists dont know how to play an instrument at all. Then you can say they are "producers". Well most producers I know in the established industry do play instruments too
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Well lets call them sound engineers then, cause as one very famous artists once said to me, its all about how you mix the kick and Bass / hat / Clap, the rest doesnt matter.
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Then we get to another point. Too much drug abuse and "it's all fun and no hard work" attitude. Now I am not going to mention any names but I cant count on how many times I have seen "artists" so hazed and gone on drugs that all they could do was just about manage to click the mouse to start the "show". I see a live performance as a job. A job to entertain people - NOT myself!But too many artists see it as a party where they themselve are the main focus and no.1 priority
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hehe, so true 
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Our scene's artists are spoiled brats with huge ego's. Maybe they could do with a huge wake up call and maybe people should consider to start to boycot those artists that steal their money with fake live performances?
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and maybe artists should start boycote ppl that comes in the party for stealing there music free on the net
Yea LETS ALL BOYCOTE EACH OTHER !!!
Great idea !!!
Always end up the same at the end here on isra, ppl that are jelous at the most famous artists, The most famous artists that dont give a fuck about what ppl say about them, and the rest of the ppl that dont care and go to the partys anyway just to have fun. |
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Outolintu
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
63
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Posted : Jun 16, 2005 21:32
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On 2005-06-16 21:12, HandA wrote:
Yet another fine example of how some certain people over and over again always read my posts the way they like to understand them instead of how my posts are meant to be understood
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yeah, we're all misunderstood miserable sons of a bleeps, ain't we? *wink wink*
but you didn't answer my question about your
own live set. still curious about that...
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HandA
Inactive User
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9
Posts :
890
Posted : Jun 16, 2005 21:40
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On 2005-06-16 21:32, Outolintu wrote:
but you didn't answer my question about your
own live set. still curious about that...
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I dont play live simply because I dont believe in pushing buttons. I do play Piano and are educated in it and have played in 100% live bands over the years. But the problem with this scene as i see it is that there's no room both echonomically or by pure will from the organisers to make real liveacts. I could do a live act with musicians and play most of it live. Well 70-80%. But no organisers would pay the price. It's expensive to make a real live act simply because it require more people on the stage = much higher expenses.
I am cooking something together and hopefully there will be a few organisers next year that see the point in it. Or maybe not. We'll see.
The fact is that I also prefer DJ's and no live acts in parties.. "Liveacts" tend to break the flow and make people stand on the floor like zombies instead of dancing... Live acts are cool on Festivals though... But the budgets are redicilious so the live acts end up being a "push the button" show.
So until I finacially can do a proper show with real live musicians I dont bother to stand on the stage as a artists. I just go on and DJ where I atleast work for my money. |
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Nyx
Started Topics :
1
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19
Posted : Jun 16, 2005 21:42
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I agree to you, at any moment I noticed some opinion that was not coherent with all the points of view but i go to give an example of that i find wrong.
Some artist come to brazil announced that they would make one live.
I do not go to cite the name of the project for ethical questions.
Well, nothing about live, but ones moved in the PC and, hi freaks, this is our dj set!!!!!!!!
The organizer said:
Simply the two integrant ones had not respected the marked dates, and had requested until a PC was rented and with ableton & wave lab installed.
After this, had alleged not to have skillful time "to be understood" with the PC and had made a great lie called of dj set.
I'm speaking about this: professionalism lack, but I would call disrespect. |
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DJ Buju
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
70
Posts :
1334
Posted : Jun 16, 2005 22:04
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On 2005-06-16 20:47, Outolintu wrote:
yeah, we've done that a couple of times:
had a trumpet and a trombone player and a guitarist, another time a midi-accordion player and hell, even a dancing bear once
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Thats the spirit, something unusal and exciting !
I have not heard a lot of your music but I know you are into experimental stuff and I have full respect for that and hope more artists could do the same in their own style.
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and i was talking about a 100% PSYTRANCE live
in my 10 cents above. most people get pissed off if they see even a guitar on stage
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Well I know of big artists ( rock/pop scene ) that don't play %100 live so I for sure don't except it from psy trance artists but what I do except is a decent LIVE show and the ability to give the crowd more then the usual computer based playback
BUju www.domorecords.com
www.myspace.com/domorec
www.myspace.com/tupanrecords |
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Outolintu
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
63
Posts :
1477
Posted : Jun 17, 2005 14:27
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On 2005-06-16 21:40, HandA wrote:
I dont play live simply because I dont believe in pushing buttons. I do play Piano and are educated in it and have played in 100% live bands over the years. But the problem with this scene as i see it is that there's no room both echonomically or by pure will from the organisers to make real liveacts. I could do a live act with musicians and play most of it live. Well 70-80%. But no organisers would pay the price. It's expensive to make a real live act simply because it require more people on the stage = much higher expenses.
I am cooking something together and hopefully there will be a few organisers next year that see the point in it. Or maybe not. We'll see.
The fact is that I also prefer DJ's and no live acts in parties.. "Liveacts" tend to break the flow and make people stand on the floor like zombies instead of dancing... Live acts are cool on Festivals though... But the budgets are redicilious so the live acts end up being a "push the button" show.
So until I finacially can do a proper show with real live musicians I dont bother to stand on the stage as a artists. I just go on and DJ where I atleast work for my money.
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now we're talking the same language
mostly i agree with your post.
i don't do live sets at the moment either,
there lie many reasons behind it though
(but tommi does play live as haltya etc.).
just want to remind you of the more than "push the button" live acts.
there are those too, you know, the ones
who take more pride in their work and take the performance and interaction with the crowd more seriously.
all in all i'd say one shouldn't take it too
seriously cause the "more or less live-act"
is the thing that keeps artists or producers (whatever you want to call them) getting payed. the records don't sell that much that one could earn a living with it. but if you have 2-4 sets/month it's already possible and the artist/producer can fully concentrate on making new tracks and albums and keep on feeding the ever so hungry and demanding ears.
conclusion: live acts should should make a better show or play more live and critics should remember for what the live act is in fact getting payed for (music, not live. if djs or party organisers would pay their fee
like big commercial and official events do it would be a whole different story). it's twisted but that's the way it works
support the music that you want to hear!
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Silent Scream
Silent Scream
Started Topics :
55
Posts :
711
Posted : Jun 28, 2005 16:13
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On 2005-06-16 19:15, psy^soldier wrote:
silent screem
maby the artist will play some mtv music hey its only music you dance no?
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are u reading what u are writing?!
where have i said i like mtv music?
only thing i said is when i dance im not looking at the dj...thats me...if i like the music..and i dont like mtv.. so i dont care so much if the dj is naked....but thats me..
and for DJ Buju
never said my live is only playing some notes...and never talked about my live...
i dont think that saying my opinion is embarassing myself...this is my point of view..
after watching many live shows i can tell that only few realy does something in their live...the only interesting liveact ive saw is sun project....the rest cant do much..making some fx and stuff is shit for me..u cant do a REAL live on psytrance..unless u have 20 talented guys..
www.myspace.com/silentscreamuzic]
www.myspace.com/tacticrec[/b] |
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johan.D
Started Topics :
1
Posts :
27
Posted : Jun 28, 2005 16:27
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On 2005-06-28 16:13, Silent Scream wrote:
after watching many live shows i can tell that only few realy does something in their live...the only interesting liveact ive saw is sun project....
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Make us 2.
Also crowed want the sound to go on directly in festivals etc... no time for balance and stuff, wich i think is one of the reasons livees are prepeard in advance, if all artists would have to make balance, it would take a shit load of time when you look a rock concerts, they almost always have a rep before the actual gig. |
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Brentel
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
17
Posts :
254
Posted : Jun 28, 2005 18:42
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HandA,im 100% with u on this one mate! 
Dont tell me that some guy canīt play psytrance on keyboard 'cos itīs too complex'.
I play piano/organ for 20 years now and thatīs an offence to me!
Someone here said that everyone who makes music is a musician....not necessarily.......a musician is someone who STUDY music and understand it and itīs theory.
Keith Richards from Rolling Stones said once that Music is dyin cos DJīs are claimin themselves as Musicians....and he that quit believing in Music cos of that.
Being a Cubase/Logic programmer and knowing itīs tricks doesnt makes u Musician!
Playin real intruments does!
B4 someone throws the 1st rock: im a piano/organ/keyboard player for 20 years and drummer for 15.Had several rock bands through all these years and i DJ psytrance,i respect ppl who make music within this style,but i really dont see most of them as musicians(although sometimes i love the music they make).
Hmmmmm itīs not possible to u to follow the computerīs clock?So uīre not experienced enough to make live act and need more practice and training
Now u can send me to Hellīs fire,but these r my 2 cents
**YOUR BRAND HERE** |
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