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What about FAKE?
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Lithium
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Jun 16, 2005 17:53
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On 2005-06-16 17:09, Just_the_simple_truth wrote:
the artist had sit infront of his little latop for 2hours, just so it would sound perfect for you.
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exactly.
i think most people influenced by the idea of how live acts were actualy made before computers apeared as a musical tool, where ananlog sequencers were used with every sound coming directly from the machines, seem not to realise that what really matters is not what the artist is doing in the live itself but the amount of work he had makin the tracks.
i believe that if most people knew exactly "what" is a live act and "how" is it done they woun´t say such things. even when computers were not used in live acts all, and i mean all the patches were already made, all those complex melodies everything. they only used an analog sequencer.
and for me, assuming that the diference from the "fake" artists you guys talk about from the "real" ones is that the fake ones only tweak the filter frequency and the real ones tweak both filter frequency and resonance, for me makes no difference at all, what makes the difference in fact is if the hundreds of hours spent in the studio by that artist were worth it or not, if the track is good or not, and that has nothing to do with what he is doing in the live itself!!! there is no creative process in the live act, there is nothing spontaneous. both "fake" and "real" artist bring their live acts completly programed from their studio. |
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HandA
Inactive User
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Posted : Jun 16, 2005 19:00
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On 2005-06-16 14:09, Lithium wrote:
most live acts resume to some tweaking in the filter frequency. it´s the way things work. noone plays melodies in live acts, it´s insane and almost impossible, only if the melody is really simple like 1 or 2 notes.
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Then they should not call themselves musicians. A musician that cant play more than 1 or 2 notes (if any at all) is not a musician in a live or playing an instrument kind of way - in my opinion. I have seen live bands in rock where the keyboard playes played very complex things live (the keyboard player in the band Saga is a very good example).. It's certantly possible to play very complex fast and repetetive melodies, sequences etc. if you have a talent as a live musician and know how to actually play a keyboard (or instrument in general) .. But I guess many "artists" only know how to move the mouse in their music program. |
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psy^soldier
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Jun 16, 2005 19:15
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silent screem
maby the artist will play some mtv music hey its only music you dance no? |
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Just_the_simple_truth
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Posted : Jun 16, 2005 19:16
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to handa/
I see your point but when your in a band you are only consentrated on only one instrument, for instance, the guy that plays the guitar does that every day all the time so technicly its easier for him to reproduce it live, when you make trance, you play on the keybord but its not the same thing as it is in a band,Trance is more about mixing, and as you said i would not call "Artists" musicians, i think the word producer is more accurate. And i think a lot of artists see themself more as that. |
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EYB
Noized
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Posted : Jun 16, 2005 19:25
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All u have to do to be an musician is to make muzik.
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Lithium
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Jun 16, 2005 19:28
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to handA
yes i can also see your point of view but in a band one person only plays one instrument. in a regular live act many instruments are played together. one person only has 2 hands, either they play the melodies of just 1 instrument, or they can tweak the knobs. another thing in bands you see guys playing the synths is because they are playing plain melodies most of the times. in trance music most melodies have reverbs, gates, compressors, filters, choppers, etc etc, and the melody itself most of the time has very little to do with the notes that are being played, which means that a band musician can actually and very easily be aware of what he is playing while in trance sounds it just doesn´t work like that. |
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Surrender
IsraTrance Team
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Posted : Jun 16, 2005 19:28
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Just_the_simple_truth, this is simply not true.... im with HandA here on the subject.
let's take for example Simon P. - one man act right? the man plays a live mix of his track on a 24 channel mixer. raising individual things from high-hats to basselines, to synth lines..... now he has them all recorded.... but he sure is working hard and innovating on stage, the result is a varied show each time he plays.
isnt that something more artists can consider?
"On the other hand, you have different fingers."
http://myspace.com/gadimon |
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EYB
Noized
Started Topics :
111
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2849
Posted : Jun 16, 2005 19:30
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Anyway u can draw the midi notes into pianoroll and ur still a musician.
For live acting u need to be prepaired, and u can only do always one thing, as lithium siad.
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Lithium
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Jun 16, 2005 19:36
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to surrender.
so what you are saying is that you consider to be more creative a live act where everything is pre recorded and the artist is raising the channel's level up in the sequencer than a live act where everything is also pre recorded and the artist is tweaking the knobs? |
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DJ Buju
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jun 16, 2005 19:42
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On 2005-06-16 19:28, Surrender wrote:
isnt that something more artists can consider?
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YES YES & YES !
Enuf with being so amature, I respect all artists that sit on their ass and make music but it deosn't mean that they could just go and pretend they got an AMAZING live show when it is NOT and not even close to being.
Yes it's true that in other geners of music people put more effort into the live preformance thing but isn't it about time the psy-trance artists would go up a level ?
Of course there are exceptions like in anything but from most artists what I see is Very lame and with certain artists ( that posted on this thread ) saying "Common it's not about the live thing it's about the music" I myself am losing hope as time goes by...
Same goes to all artists that think that by making a few tunes ( Again respect for that as I said before ) it means they are Dj's. Cause it's not true @ all, and the amount of times I heard artists spinning and thought it was an absolute disgrace is more then iv expected.
Try to be unique in what you do and aim HIGH ! 
Bom BOm
BUju
www.domorecords.com
www.myspace.com/domorec
www.myspace.com/tupanrecords |
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Nyx
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Posted : Jun 16, 2005 19:42
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just the simple truth:
thanks for your comment...
if you to search a little you know that an artist isn't rich through sell of CDs, who earns with sell of cds is the label. Artist earns with events, in all the sources of any type of music is thus. How much costs one live? I pay for live don't to lie. How much
a normal person has that to work to earn what an artist earns making one lie (fake)? Therefore, if goes to make, makes well done. Films launched in the entire world are for download in the InterNet and for this reason the films turn humbug? I find that not.
And thanks to mp3 that much artist has fame and chance to play your 'lives' around the world.
I am not defending "sharing" but you must in such a way, know how much I, who DJ in its LIVE SETS use and abuse 192kbps.
The discussion is not about mp3 or wav, but the lies, i feel myself be deceptive.
ps: i need to be a producer to give my opinion?
so, I'm not speaking that alone the fact to use one notebook means that is being one fake live but during one live, get out from CDJs! |
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psychotic_neuroscientist
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Jun 16, 2005 19:43
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On 2005-06-16 16:36, psysurf wrote:
hey ppl, thanks for comments...
let's go
it's something like this
what we can see right now in the parties?
- children
- freaks (with no sense)
- wannabe psychedelic person (for this i'll have to make a dreadlocks in my hair, a t-shirt with a shiva stamp, sunglasses, and biting mouth everytime)
So, anyone can say: hey, enjoy your party and don't care about the people around you
but, for what?
how much costs a dj set, and how much costs a live act or pa?
we are not donkeys! and my money i didn't find at the trash, or in the trees, like apples or oranges!
MORE RESPECT WITH US! because you fake work is too expensive...
i guess the public has to pay more atention to this facts, because, i'm not a freak with a head full of substances to be a zombie at the dance floor...
sorry because my international language is poor, but i think all of you can understand this point of view
cheers
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 totally agree wid ya on this ....especially the money part of it all....!
Respect.....
No... no more scientists, no more laboratories, no more experiments, I thought you`d be able to understand that. No more! |
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Outolintu
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jun 16, 2005 20:03
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here we go:
i don't think anybody has played a 100% live set if we're talking about multi layered electronic music such as psy trance.
think about the amount of equipment and musicians you would need to play something like that. for example:
usually artists tend to take full advantage of their equipment and use many different patches in the same track, often simultaniously too. that means that if the artist uses for example 6 patches of a multitimbral synth there would have to be 6 synths with 6 players on stage and so on. i think you get the picture. it's impossible. the other option is stripping the sound dramatically like for example a.b. didgeridoo does. his live consists of live playing (didgeridoo and percussion through efx if i remember correctly) but then again it's not the sound you were expecting and very likely too simple and tribalistic for the most.
and now in the laptop era the live playing is even more reduced with the absence of keyboards and controllers (ofcourse there are lives who use these too).
so i guess organizers should start to call a live set/pa now a live mixing set or midi live or partial live (with the basic structure coming from hard disk, cd etc and the artists spicing it up with manipulations, rhythms, efx and the likes) to inform the dancers/listeners correctly.
and to hand a: from my own experience i have to say that it's very hard to play a simple melody (especially a simple melody cause your errors stand out clearer) for several minutes with an unforgiving midi clock ruling the rest of the track. it's a whole different issue if you're playing with other human beings as a band than competing with a machine on timing. the creation of the tracks is different too. as a instruments playing band you compose the track by playing it the whole time ( =practice), as a secuencer based musician you compose your track by coding and/or playing the melodies/rhythms (you don't get the same amount of practice if at all). so i think you should not compare these two ways of making music or performing it in the first place.
there! that's my 10 cents about it 
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Lithium
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Jun 16, 2005 20:04
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Quote:
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On 2005-06-16 19:42, psysurf wrote:
just the simple truth:
How much a normal person has that to work to earn what an artist earns making one lie (fake)?
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psysurf with all the respect try to see things in other perpective. do you have any idea of the thousands and i mean thousands of hours an artists spends creating the live act. if you divide the 1000 euros an artist gets for playing live for 1000 hours of hard work +1 hour of playng live you can easily see that in fact maybe even yourself earn more money in a regular job...
don´t misticise live acts, all artists bring everything ready from home, every single one, and then some of them choose to tweak the filter knobs others choose to raise the level of the tracks in the sequencer, and normally lives with two persons one stays with the knobs and the other with the sequencer. anyway in any of these cases they are not creating anything. everything is pre recorded, everything was made at home. |
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Just_the_simple_truth
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Posted : Jun 16, 2005 20:04
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I see your point Psysurfer, im aware that most artists are famous because of mp3.
But you have to be realistic, and everyone does, there isnt much money in psytrance, not much at all, if you would give the same amount of money to me that for instance Aerosmith gets for a gig, i can promise you that i would get plastik surgery to ger 2 more arms, and practice twice as much as they do, and play all synth parts at 148bpm, shit i could even play the rolling bass.
All im saying is that Artist does not have enough free time to preapare lives, because they have to sell new tracks to shit labels that will be on shit compilations in order to live...
And to Gadi, of course Simon can make real lives, he is the most sold psychedlic act on the planet, he gets well paid for his acts so he doesnt make many, but when he makes one, its what ppl presist as real live, a mixing of preapeard seqeunce, honestly i dont like it so much, i mean it gets very progressive, and you cant make any fast breaks. The result imo is anti-dancefloor except if its a prog act, ohhh.... and of course when simon plays ppl dance, because its simon. |
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