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under the promotion umbrella we are all shameless
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maux
Mauxuam
Started Topics :
28
Posts :
546
Posted : Dec 19, 2007 20:49
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On 2007-12-19 20:16, andrew interchill wrote:
Given this is a commercial space first and foremost, limiting sales oriented posts could perhaps reduce traffic and make advertising here less attractive.
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finally got it !
tnx andrew for clarifying.
this is a commercial space now..not a community.
off
  "There is only one corner of the universe you can be certain will never improve, and that's here." Aldus |
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Alias
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
32
Posts :
984
Posted : Dec 19, 2007 22:03
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separate music creation section its a great idea and it was discussed before. may be the mods can take this idea further.
www.myspace.com/aliasix |
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vector_0
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
113
Posts :
1189
Posted : Dec 19, 2007 23:10
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On 2007-12-19 20:49, maux wrote:
Quote:
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On 2007-12-19 20:16, andrew interchill wrote:
Given this is a commercial space first and foremost, limiting sales oriented posts could perhaps reduce traffic and make advertising here less attractive.
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finally got it !
tnx andrew for clarifying.
this is a commercial space now..not a community.
off
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IMO, its SEEMS as though you have in your head this dichotomy of community/commercial. Why can't both exist as one?
again, i could be misinterpreting what you're saying, but its just my observation |
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Trip-
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
101
Posts :
3239
Posted : Dec 20, 2007 00:12
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Maybe that's what our 2008 poll should be about?
Crackling universes dive into their own neverending crackle...
AgalactiA |
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maux
Mauxuam
Started Topics :
28
Posts :
546
Posted : Dec 20, 2007 02:13
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On 2007-12-19 23:10, vector_0 wrote:
IMO, its SEEMS as though you have in your head this dichotomy of community/commercial. Why can't both exist as one?
again, i could be misinterpreting what you're saying, but its just my observation
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good observation 
you are almost right Vector, no misinterpretation here.
I am not against the market itself tho
but I don't like the market to be EVERYWHERE and ALWAYS (sorry for the screaming capitals).
curiously I am actually reading a big book about this dichotomy right now...but I will not be tedious with that now. 
I always liked this forum (not the name to be honest)
but I read a "commercial" letter from the isratrance team that now make me think that soon adverts will have more decision power on this community than their members.
maybe I am only a paranoid tho.
Trip is absolutely right !
the 2008 pool should be about this,
in my not so humble opinion too.
"There is only one corner of the universe you can be certain will never improve, and that's here." Aldus |
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sure_smoke_alot
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
45
Posts :
6874
Posted : Dec 20, 2007 06:42
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Quote:
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On 2007-12-19 20:49, maux wrote:
Quote:
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On 2007-12-19 20:16, andrew interchill wrote:
Given this is a commercial space first and foremost, limiting sales oriented posts could perhaps reduce traffic and make advertising here less attractive.
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finally got it !
tnx andrew for clarifying.
this is a commercial space now..not a community.
off
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IMO this is still a community which needs a bit of commerce to survive as every other thing in this world right now.
the problem with valuing art is, till u dont understand it, it's worthless but wen u do understand it, it's priceless!! |
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vector_0
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
113
Posts :
1189
Posted : Dec 20, 2007 08:40
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curiously I am actually reading a big book about this dichotomy right now...
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what book? |
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shahar
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
155
Posts :
2035
Posted : Dec 20, 2007 09:38
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On 2007-12-19 20:16, andrew interchill wrote:
Given this is a commercial space first and foremost, limiting sales oriented posts could perhaps reduce traffic and make advertising here less attractive.
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????
Andrew, I find this a very weird observation and totally untrue and unfair. I was also a little hurt by it. Please read here: http://forum.isratrance.com/important-message-to-forum-members/18-125082/
Do you have evidence for your claims? Can you read our minds and know our motives are different that what we stated?
The fact that the site started to generate some income doesn't mean it is a business and commercial space. No one says that you have to pay a lot of money out of your own pocket to make something a non-commercial thing. If this was a business it would have been a real bad business for the people running it. I see the site as a non profit organization. We are not registered as one as it costs money and needs a lot of beurocracy (more time and money). We operate in the real world, we have expenses and we need to cover them, as we no longer have to possibility to have volunteers do all the work (there aren't enough of them who'll do it consistently).
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Maux's original point about this forum is consistent with Shahar's response re individuals who over promote.
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I didn't follow you on that. Can you explain?
---------------------------------------------
"Be the change you want to see in the world!"
M.K. Gandhi
"There is only one corner of the universe you can be certain of improving, and that's your own self."
Aldous Huxley
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John
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
76
Posts :
768
Posted : Dec 20, 2007 21:04
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Well obviously "its not as good as it used to be" TM - but I think its a fair point that a lot more posts are just plugging new releases & there seems to be fewer discussions. Maybe that's everyone's fault for not starting/getting involved in decent threads? But then again its only worth debating/discussing something worthwhile (unlike some of the "what the most psy supermarket you go to" type threads in the main forum...).
So come on... lets start debating.. lets *all* join in.. we could have a mass-debate... (apologies... I couldnt resist)
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maux
Mauxuam
Started Topics :
28
Posts :
546
Posted : Dec 21, 2007 00:56
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I have a few questions for shahar:
1) how much is cost to run isratrance ?
can you pls break it down...I mean:
how much for server, bandwith, HDs and tech stuff (that should not so expensive)
and how much for ppl who work for it ? (php programmers and ?)
are the mods payed ? (I guess not)
a rough idea is enough....I don't pretend more.
2) since now you are selling commercial adverts you must be a regular business to do that. is it ?
3) did you think to ask to the members for a donation or even more...for a subscription ? (I would be happy to pay to have a forum ad free...it's not so utopistic I think)
4)since I read in your letter that now your costumers are only companies involved in the trance scene, but in 3 month time you will be selling to bigger and stronger names who pay bigger money...
do you really think that the politic and the attitude of the forum will still be free, or maybe there is a risk that will be heavily conditioned by its costumers more than its members ?
(what I read sounds more like a real commercial letter to me than a non-profit org)
5)how much it cost now to put a banner here ?
and how much it will cost in 3 month time ?
how much the AD robots from google generate ?
6)when you selling an advert here, basically you are selling the content of this forum, the free content that many of us provide.
so at this point maybe all our posts should have in the signature :
© copyright control by "name of the user".
(sorry this is not a question but a statement)
7) if you charge 1$ for every PROMO post in here you can make a fortune...and keep those horrible banners off.
(another silly statement)
8)why the content of this forum is open to search engines ?
many forums and blogs are not and IMO the privacy of the members is more respected...another good reason to add that evil © at the bottom maybe.
9)if I make a post here that generate a lot of traffic (let's say 1000 views or clicks) will I have some shares ?
believe me...behind this questions there is no intention of hurting you...but only a strong curiosity and the will to know how things really are.
I am not a stupid utopist kid...I know that surviving in this market reality is not possible without making compromises with it...but...IMO there are many levels of compromise.
and I much prefer the self "grassroots" promotion and spam to banners.
@ Vector: "Empire" by Michael Hardt and Antonio Negri
published by Harvard University press 2000.
this post is © copyright control by mauxuam 2007
"There is only one corner of the universe you can be certain will never improve, and that's here." Aldus |
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shahar
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
155
Posts :
2035
Posted : Dec 21, 2007 09:35
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Hi Maux,
I don't know how much it costs to run this place- we never did calculate it- we just worked (what's your price for an hours' work,?) and paid whatever it did. Even when we didn't even stop here to read anymore. And over 10 years it was a lot, probably. Simple point is that we can't do that anymore. And we don't just want to keep it running like now. It's old fashioned, it's stagnating, it's going nowhere, it's boring and ads nothing. It's also dependent on very few people, who have no solid obligation, and can stop functioning any day. You just don't know how many times this has almost happened. We want to develop it to be an interesting place, to have some meat. Otherwise we have no interest here and we'll quit. And once we quit, this place will die at once. Because it's very nice to offer donations, and have all these nice ideas (most popular- make Isratrance parties!!!), but fact is, that unless you have a dedicated team working on a regular basis (like we had in the first 5 years) things are just gonna stay barley alive at best. That's my experience talking. People are very quick to offer their help and ideas, but tend to disappear when it's time to do things. There's a lot that can be done. Here's some of what we thought of. We want to have serious reviewers and interviewers, articles in different subjects, we want to have a regular newsletter (like Earplug) with interesting content, we want to have a real world wide party database, we want to be able to offer much more to the people here- freebies, special prices on music and festival/party tickets, mixes & lives downloads, maybe offer every user a free space here for himself and more and more. We'll go at all this slowly. But to even start moving it, we gotta have some money. Hence the banners and the ads. So you'll just have to count on us and maybe, unthinkable as it is, even give us some credit, which I think we deserve, after 10 years of hard work for no financial or material benefit, that we have good intentions. Little faith, little credit, after so many years of giving- that'll be nice. We never made a penny from this place, we never got any benefit, we never once compromised our integrity. A little credit, just a little, will be very nice. Thank you.
---------------------------------------------
"Be the change you want to see in the world!"
M.K. Gandhi
"There is only one corner of the universe you can be certain of improving, and that's your own self."
Aldous Huxley
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sure_smoke_alot
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
45
Posts :
6874
Posted : Dec 21, 2007 13:50
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Quote:
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On 2007-12-21 09:35, shahar wrote:
We want to have serious reviewers and interviewers, articles in different subjects, we want to have a regular newsletter (like Earplug) with interesting content, we want to have a real world wide party database, we want to be able to offer much more to the people here- freebies, special prices on music and festival/party tickets, mixes & lives downloads, maybe offer every user a free space here for himself and more and more. We'll go at all this slowly. But to even start moving it, we gotta have some money. Hence the banners and the ads. So you'll just have to count on us and maybe, unthinkable as it is, even give us some credit, which I think we deserve, after 10 years of hard work for no financial or material benefit, that we have good intentions. Little faith, little credit, after so many years of giving- that'll be nice. We never made a penny from this place, we never got any benefit, we never once compromised our integrity. A little credit, just a little, will be very nice. Thank you.
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we are in for sum nice times 
the problem with valuing art is, till u dont understand it, it's worthless but wen u do understand it, it's priceless!! |
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MARGHERITA
Master Margherita
Started Topics :
156
Posts :
1442
Posted : Dec 21, 2007 13:52
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some comments:
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Quote:
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On 2007-12-21 09:35, shahar wrote:
People are very quick to offer their help and ideas, but tend to disappear when it's time to do things.
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that the rule into "alternative/hippy land"
i got the same experience in Swiss trying to make any kind of action:
living, bands, partys or what ever you like to do with other people..
i gues we can all understand this, you have all my support and i hope the forum never gonna stop, I LIKE!!!!
2)
thank you for explain to us a bit of your history,
for sure is much more easy to be just a user of this forum (and criticize), than keep it alive, active and interesting.
3)
i realy like the blue style/artwork of this forum, is very easy to read and find info.
but this banners are not so beatifull to see, i mean the artwork of all the main page is a bit broken with this squares in the bottom...
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maux
Mauxuam
Started Topics :
28
Posts :
546
Posted : Dec 23, 2007 05:00
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tnx Shahar
for the good and long answer
I believe that you have been doing it from the heart.
and my questions were not trying to dis-credit you at all.
I am sorry if you took it that way.
if I didn't respect what you did till now I would not even waste my time here writing. this is a credit I think.
still I would like to know some facts and not only the intents...if this is a community no-profit we should be able to know them.
(IMO the forum should be closed to search engines for example...it may sound silly but it is not).
I think that you will do really well in the future.
there is a big bag here.
the ideas and the intents that you put on the plate are really good. and IMO you are right,
stagnation is not the way forward.
and I wish you the best luck because it seems that you deserve it...I only hope it will not become a trance myspace.
(my idea of charging 1$ for a promo post is not that stupid)
to Margherita:
I totally disagree with your words.
this story of the hippy land is a easy clichè....move on.
this kind of argumentations are very much Berlusconi style.
there are many good examples of serious alternative networks and organizations working really well only on volunteers and doing amazing incredible stuff...and the excuse that sometime (or even most of the times) things don't work out it is not a good one....it's a rotten one.
also many business fail and go bankrupt but nobody says that the market system is not working...so ?...
if a volunteer organization fails is because we are lazy hippies.
if a business fails is only bad luck ???
I personally prefer the attitude of the "alternative/hippy land" how you call it to the rules of the business with cravats, where the quality is given only from the money flux and not from the love for things.
and if you want to talk and act as a cravat man than you have to take all the responsabilities involved with it.
you can't speak like an "hippy" on one side asking favours and help in name of a comune vision of life and on the other side act as a bank manager.
we already saw few examples of "hippies" who become milionare using this double face and the credit that many other "hippies" gave them...they did an investment...a long term one.
I see that most things around are on sale this days, the all reality is becoming a big myspace thing, a Murdock reality were also the small fishes want to be sharks...and for me it is really sad to see the advertisment eating every little angle of our sensorial space...this was one of the last internet resorts ad free...and now it isn't anymore...and for sure there are plenty of good reasons...but I don't like it.
the critics are vital, even the most stupid ones...and we should all learn to face them and not be defensive...and a forum is also a place for that...full of idiots like me doing stupid questions...if not IMO it would be just another boring (promo) place where we all wank eachother with amazing compliments.
happy new year in advance to everyone
© ® ™ mauxuam
"There is only one corner of the universe you can be certain will never improve, and that's here." Aldus |
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Alias
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
32
Posts :
984
Posted : Dec 23, 2007 10:21
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this thread is a good example why i'm love this section!
discussion whithout bullshit and insults! good points from all involved
happy new year!
www.myspace.com/aliasix |
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