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U.S trance scene
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GhregOnEarth
Phosphene
Started Topics :
30
Posts :
205
Posted : Nov 18, 2003 01:37
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Denel's post, I feel, does bring up some points that could open some interesting discourse.
For Instance:
Is there something intrinisic about the culture in the US that makes the trance dance experience so obfuscated to even the underground counter culture(s) in the States????
Is there some common thread in cultures where pschedelic trance thrives????
How much have people who embrace the trance experience rejected their local geographical and/or socio-political identity as limiting and oppressing in lui of one that is a tad more individualistic and tolerant of diversity?
These are all questions that float around my head from time to time.
I have no answers, but a few theories....I feel intelligent conversation on the subject would be interesting. |
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Maska
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
27
Posts :
869
Posted : Nov 18, 2003 02:15
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I think it comes down to spirituality.
The average american is very egotistical and non-spiritual. Most Americans never really even tap into their spirituality unless they see it on the TV. Then you have all of these trend seekers in a yoga class burning incense, but they never try to understand the depth or actual purpose of Yoga.
If they were to hear Psytrance they maybe interested at first listen, but wouldn't even begin to or even try to understand where it comes from or what it's about. They may even attend a party or two for the "party", but would never reach that deep. It's too easy being "American". Why look deaper?
Luckily for me, I went to Japan straight out of high school and kind of fell into a trance party. After that self discovery was inevitable.
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denel
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
49
Posted : Nov 18, 2003 03:20
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Uncle Bob
I never inted to put america´s scene down, i just made the comparison with brasil scene because our country is a poor third world country, and yours is the most rich nation in the world, so i tought the trance scene was stronger...seeing the replys to my post i saw that i used the wrong words to express it..
peace from brasil |
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DiMiTry
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
70
Posts :
2299
Posted : Nov 18, 2003 08:03
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I disagree with Uncle Bob here.. I think there are LOTS of very spiritual/psychedelic people in the US, remember, this is where the psychedelic revolution began. I mean, in this country almost everyone believes in something or other, some kind of higher force, be it Jesus or Buddha or Om or Bud.
I do think there's a lot of 'cool' machismo in the American culture, including counterculture, and tons of repressed sexuality. Americans are extremely conservative! Goa isn't 'cool' or sexy, like house or jazz, it's goofy and sincere, with all our blacklights and mandalas, and ridiculous samples. Also, Goa is androgenous, and very nearly sexless. Notice that the two biggest centers of trance in the US are also the most socially liberated cities in this country.
Also, I think the media is against us. Goa isn't very marketable.  And in the country this big, with the population so spread out, it's hard to build a scene. So there's a good scene in the two major metropolitan areas that have enough people to create a 'critical mass.' With the emergence of forums like this one, it should be easier to spread the message.... |
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spliffnik
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
53
Posts :
663
Posted : Nov 18, 2003 14:51
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Wow- I am amazed that one posting that seemed really stupid AT FIRST (but not anymore, Denel, I can understand that you werent trying to put anyone down now) has turned into this thought provoking discussion...
DiMiTry and Ghreg and Uncle Bob, you guys have said some very interesting things that got me thinking a bit more about the U.S. trance scene. I think I have a bit different perspective of the US scene now that I am in Tokyo.
Before, there was a time where I thought the US scene was small and wanted it to get bigger. Not like mainstream big, but I was envious of the stories Id heard about the Boom festival, and many other huge parties all over the world.
But not now. Now I realize that what is in the US is very special. It amazes me that in a country where many people are conservative and mainstream oriented (due to the fact just about anything becomes commercialized), something like the goa scene can exist. And there have even been some amazing festivals without the commercialization, like BM, which is the best fucking party in the world! (and on a side note I am bringing like 30 crazy trancers from Tokyo this year!)
But here in Japan, I have seen something different. This place is much more mainstream oriented, and the trance scene has become this way too. You would not believe some of the shit that goes on here! Every weekend there is a party with 5000 -8000 people, with all the top artists from the biggest labels. The music is great, but many times I am sad about the majority of the people that come. The front of the clubs are lined with brand new mercedes benzes, the girls are sporting Louis Vuitton bags, gangsters come to sell drugs, there are many fights, and many people are not even dancing! This shit blew me away. I couldnt believe that trance became a fad, cool this year and out the next (to these people). These parties are no place to have a spiritual experience, let alone be comfortable!
I did my best at first, trying not to pay attention to these people, and occasionally I met some really cool people. But after a while I realized I haver got to stop giving my money to these people that throw these parties (50, even 80 bucks a pop) and start supporting the smaller scene that resembled the little parties in the states that was only about loving the music and the dancing, not about being cool.
What I see here can easily happen to the US scene. I hope this never happens. I just want to say that after witnessing how the majority of the trance scene has become corrupted here in Tokyo, we should consider it a miracle for the US scene to manage small and out of the mainstream market. Sure its got its little problems, every place does. But coming here I realize how amazing the scene is in the states. To all the trancers in the US, do your best to keep it the way it is! We wont realize how great it was until it has been poisoned, like in Japan. By poisoned I mean the biggest organizations here are tied to the mafia, and throw parties to make money and sell drugs. It is about as far as it can get from the pure trance dance experience. Please all you guys enjoy every single party like it is the last one ever. I miss you guys so much, but for now I feel I have got to join the few here that are trying to make the Light shine again. This next week will be interesting, Goa Gil is coming to play in Tokyo. This is about the biggest clash I can imagine, but nevertheless I am going to stomp around on the dancefloor to show as many people as I can how it can be done! Ill let you guys know how it went. Man, even here in Tokyo with all its problems it is still a blast. As long as there are compassionate souls here, it will never become 100% spoiled! We will keep the Light shining here, you guys do the same over there!
Uncle Bob, I know you have lived in Japan and share my sentiments. Wish me the best in my mission here. Ill talk to you guys again soon.
-bOOm- Spliffnik |
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Maska
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
27
Posts :
869
Posted : Nov 18, 2003 18:39
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Denel - I believe you and have no hard feelings for you. I do understand what you meant now. Thanks for clarifying. My apologies for attacking your statement.
Spliffnik - I do wish you the best (you took the words out of my mouth). I hope you can spread some light and return the energy back into the best atmosphere I have ever experienced. I am in love with the Japanese people because of my experience there and am so disappointed with the outcome of this change. I'm glad to hear there are a few who do care. Thank you and give love to Morgana for me. 
Having lived in Japan when trance was like it is in LA now, I really fell in love with the small party vibe and left right when the Mafia, etc. started taking over. It's sad because now I'm starting to see promoters and trancers wanting the bigger and "better" parties here even though after every party someone comes up to them and thanks them for keeping it small and "family" like. It's sad because they don't understand what it can turn into and how many people it will affect if it comes to that.
Dimitry, I see your point and agree with some of what you said. Just remember I said the "Average" American. I don't mean everyone. Most Americans I have come across are only spiritual when it is convenient for them to be. Only if it benefits them in some way. How many step up and help without anything in return? The government has to give them tax breaks so they'll give to charity. To me that's sad.
Also, you said above that this is where the psychedelic revolution began, etc. Well, let me remind you that it was the American government and people that were against this revolution and were ultimately responsible for bringing it down. So, the few who do feel the way I do are out-numbered by the "Average" American. |
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ZeRo
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
39
Posts :
802
Posted : Nov 18, 2003 19:07
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the psychedelic movement began in america precisely because of how puritanical and unaccepting the establishment was at the time. It was a countercultural movement that was spawned as a reaction to the mainstream society and their ruthlessness. The vietnam war was the last straw and many people were fed up with the values of the mainstream society. America is still a sort of schizophrenic society. On one hand you have the ecstasy awareness act on the other hand you have burning man. we saw it in the last election here. New england, the states around the great lakes in the midwest, and the westcoast vs. everyone else. This is of course a generalization but its accurate on a large scale i believe. It will only take time for more and more ppl to be exposed to the psychedelic movement as the ruthlessness of the government becomes more apparent for the trance scene here to become more visible. With that said I agree completely with Uncle Bob and spliffnik, in my opinion there is nothing better than a party where everyone is relaxed and friendly, great conversations ensue about every imaginable topic outside of the dancefloor, and on the dancefloor everyone stomps together in a beautiful spiritual undeniable trance dance. For example the last two brooklyn loft parties encompass this ideal. i hope we can keep it this way.
 ein chadash tachat hashemesh. there is nothing new under the sun. --kohelet. |
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ricardo
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
18
Posts :
73
Posted : Nov 18, 2003 20:15
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Hello Daniel,
I can understand where do you come from and how good the parties in Brazil are. I started to go to parties in Brazil in 96 and pretty much saw the whole scene grow. I moved here to LA in 1999, but i go to Brazil every winter. Nowadays, The scene in Brazil is amazing if you find the right party, because for the past 3 years, most of the parties are not good at all.This parties with 5,000 people you're saying are huge comercial parties with the solely purpose of making money...If you ask the old people on the scene in Brasil they're not happy with the scene at all. But i understand why you think like that. This feelings against 'USA scene" comes from long time ago...I can't count how many times i heard from people on the scene asking me what i was doing i USA? People really like to generalize US like you did and say how bad the scene here is...SOmetimes most of the people who says that never even been here. It's easy to put a label on a country with 300 million people and say that everyone are the same...But the truth is that there are a lot of cool parties and cool people here...I've been playing in Amazing parties in LA and San Fran for the last 2 years...And people do really know about the music...They don't follow the masses because it's cool...You should also check one day the burning man festival which is for me the best festival i've ever been in my life...
All the best,
Ricardo Cassettari |
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green nun
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
36
Posts :
217
Posted : Nov 18, 2003 23:32
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Quote:
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On 2003-11-18 01:37, GhregOnEarth wrote:
Is there something intrinisic about the culture in the US that makes the trance dance experience so obfuscated to even the underground counter culture(s) in the States????
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I think that's a contradiction in terms. Anything which pertains to an underground counter culture would in essence be obscure. Trance is an underground counter culture in its own right. Perhaps it is obscure to the "mainstream" counterculture in the U.S. (again a contradiction in terms) I think the obscurity has more to do with the bad taste left in the mouths of many with the raves, the busts that went along with that and the drug abusing of underage candyravers. People automatically categorize the genre of music and do not make distinctions. This is more a problem of ignorance than an intrinsic characteristic in the US counter culture. I think most people in the culture are trancers and don't know it yet.
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On 2003-11-18 01:37, GhregOnEarth wrote:
Is there some common thread in cultures where pschedelic trance thrives???? |
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I've thought about that too and probably the most common thread is suffering...(funny how that is probably the common thread that most religions share also) I don't think people are satisfied with religions and the answers or spiritual comfort they are provided ..when in the name of religion so much atrocity and additional suffering is inflicted. Suffering can exist on many planes.. physical, psychological, emotional, social, political, spiritual, etc… People normally turn to religion in search of ultimate freedom and detachment from worldly affliction. I can’t think of a better realization of that than a trance party. So many cultures and races and “baggage” but somehow we are all one and actually feel as though we are all one. If we went to a party in SF or Timbuktu we would have the same experience. After my first trance party I felt instantly that I found home and that I found the people I had been separated from my whole life. I think that Trance and the culture is an important spiritual movement that has yet to evolve or not evolve and that is wholly dependent on the people in the scene and those who promote, make the music and somehow involve themselves in the party process.
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On 2003-11-18 01:37, GhregOnEarth wrote:
How much have people who embrace the trance experience rejected their local geographical and/or socio-political identity as limiting and oppressing in lui of one that is a tad more individualistic and tolerant of diversity? |
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I think we all have to some degree which is why we all feel that trance has changed our lives and has given us the outlet we needed to express ourselves and explore ourselves in a free and uninhibited environment. Certain things are understood … there will be peace, love, unity, friendship, respect and understanding so we are free to explore and not worry about someone trying to start fights with you or expect you to look or act or dance a certain way… Rejecting our given societal and political identities is crucial in the evolution of a society….that’s how all revolutions are born.
Interesting questions Greg...wish I had answers but theories are fun too...
Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity... |
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DiMiTry
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
70
Posts :
2299
Posted : Nov 19, 2003 00:00
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The psychedelic revolution never ended. 
Kesey, Leary, McKenna, Ginsberg, Ram Dass, Jerry Garcia, Shulgin, Stanislav Grof, Alex Grey, and a thousand more... mostly American, still. People underestimate this country.
All thanks to Dubya.
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Maska
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
27
Posts :
869
Posted : Nov 19, 2003 02:19
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Believe me, I don't underestimate this country. I expect more from it and it's people. |
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Inu
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
14
Posts :
91
Posted : Nov 19, 2003 08:50
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Quote:
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On 2003-11-18 08:03, DiMiTry wrote:
I do think there's a lot of 'cool' machismo in the American culture, including counterculture, and tons of repressed sexuality. Americans are extremely conservative! Goa isn't 'cool' or sexy, like house or jazz, it's goofy and sincere, with all our blacklights and mandalas, and ridiculous samples. Also, Goa is androgenous, and very nearly sexless. Notice that the two biggest centers of trance in the US are also the most socially liberated cities in this country.
Also, I think the media is against us. Goa isn't very marketable. And in the country this big, with the population so spread out, it's hard to build a scene. So there's a good scene in the two major metropolitan areas that have enough people to create a 'critical mass.' With the emergence of forums like this one, it should be easier to spread the message....
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I disagree on the marketable bit. I think America has burned out on techno and raves in general... "been there, done that", as one girl I spoke to said... but the older, rock-listening crowd, the people who dig Ozric Tentacles and Tangerine Dream, do connect with psytrance. I think there's an untapped market in home listeners, and it doesn't have to involve money from drug sales Industrial kids dig on psy as well, but they can't find it... more crossovers, like the Metropolis/Juno Reactor deal, need to happen before those sales go up.
If you're on Isratrance you know about this music but... what brings you to Isratrance? I found psy in a Tower Records, learned what it was through UK dance mags, and found the party scene through a flyer in a video shop. If not for promotional efforts on every level, I would not be here (for better or worse  )
As far as spirituality goes, it's cool but don't push it down people's throats... I'm more about connecting on an artistic level, sharing new ideas. Let the spiritual part happen on its own, if it's going to happen. Besides, your average "new age yuppie" is fairly indifferent to techno...
tiger got to hunt,
bird got to fly,
man got to sit and wonder why, why, why?
tiger got to sleep,
bird got to land,
man got to tell himself he understand. |
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Inu
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
14
Posts :
91
Posted : Nov 19, 2003 08:51
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And more goofy, sincere androgyny please.
tiger got to hunt,
bird got to fly,
man got to sit and wonder why, why, why?
tiger got to sleep,
bird got to land,
man got to tell himself he understand. |
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Maska
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
27
Posts :
869
Posted : Nov 19, 2003 17:58
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No one is pushing spirtuality down anyones throat, but that's how the scene was started in GOA. That's what this scene is about. A spiritual, trance dance experience. This scene originated and was based on the music performed at tribal rituals by natives all over the world. What is more spiritual than that?
Some artists have strayed from that and do it for different reasons. However, as whole this scene (which I actually consider my religion) is a way of life for most of it's followers. You are right that nothing spiritual can be pushed down your throat. No one can truly grasp their spiritual side unless they are ready to dig for it and accept what they find.
On the other hand, I would never tell anyone how or why they should appreciate this music. Everyone has a right to express themselves in their own unique "artistic" way. That's what makes us individuals. |
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green nun
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
36
Posts :
217
Posted : Nov 19, 2003 21:07
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You can't push spirituality down anyone's throat that's something you either experience or not. Spiritual or not I don't think anyone would be into this scene if there wasn't a basic appreciation for the music itself and the artistic expression of the many involved in the scene...the spiritual part is on the inside and as Uncle Bob reminded us..the basis for Goa...and who better than Goa Gil to express this...
“For me it's a holy thing. I'm very particular about where I will play and who I will play for. I'm not in it for the money; I'm in it to uplift people's consciousness to the trance-dance experience. Through the trance-dance experience, hopefully people become more sensitive and aware of themselves, their surroundings, the crossroads of humanity, and the needs of the planet. With that awareness comes understanding and compassion. That is the need of the hour and the true Goa spirit.” Goa Gil - Remix Magazine 2002
Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity... |
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