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The Problem With Psytrance (warning, it's a long post)
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v.v2
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
83
Posted : Mar 23, 2007 19:49
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why do things change? and always for the worse, esppecially if you are the alumni!!
I call it the Alumni Syndrome, and a very decent purpose in life is not to be afflicted by it.
You see, unless we start eating those unfed babies, we are going to have more poor people! |
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coSmiIic r080t0n3
IsraTrance Full Member
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72
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2340
Posted : Mar 23, 2007 19:50
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On 2007-03-23 19:45, rich wrote:
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On 2007-03-22 23:30, Pete Sideburner wrote:
So, who’s with me? Who wants that difference back that it once used to make? How are we gonna get it? Where?
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I've grown, and expect the things that help me continue to grow are not going to be the same things as before. new challenges in life.
Bring it.
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@ rich well said  ....
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It's time to move on to the next step in the psychedelic revolution. We've reached a certain point, but we're not moving any more.
Ken Kesey |
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faxinadu
Faxi Nadu / Elmooht
Started Topics :
282
Posts :
3394
Posted : Mar 23, 2007 19:54
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Aida Noridania
Started Topics :
2
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126
Posted : Mar 23, 2007 21:50
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| I think the psy scene is in kinda trouble since a few years. As usual and as it has happened to other subcultural movements before, many different styles have evaporated out of the oldschool, original sound. They address lots of different people and/or states of minds, which is really a great thing. But it kinda got stuck and repetitive - but why? |
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first that why is easy parties were all styles mixed together instead of themes and yea we are not the only ones who might like trance... so the more people they are that love trance, the bigger the room must be the bigger the parties and yea, in a local small forest you can say "okay free party but when you need to be in order with laws and regulations for a larger event costs run up (and faster then one may think!!)
not to mention that it starts the money loop....
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| And in the quest of success most labels are just greedy of popping out the “newest”, “freshest” – well, or whatever that means – so that for most labels the recency became more important than the quality. If I read the descriptions from psyshop, which I guess do all come from the releasing labels, it is mostly brainless, proposterous hokum. It usually sounds like a sleazy washing powder commercial, just that the target group isn’t middle-class houswives but some slightly bemused fringe group that chose to live a tightrope between drug madness, drug addiction, keeping it somehow alltogether and believing that this lifestyle would really have some spiritual potential to it. |
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go to any scene underground or not and you will see the same, point is what is it that you wish to make note on? i can easyly say that a lot of my friends just go to a party AND they are spiritual and they don't take drugs... it's not goatrance that makes spiritual, it is spirituality that met (goa)trance music as a part of an expression... that's a huge difference imho don't mix that up  i was busy with spirituality before the first goatrance track was created and heard here in belgium
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| Don’t get me wrong, there is still lots of good freaky music out there, but the market forces in psy aren’t different from those at the New York stock exchange, so you just don’t get to hear it on parties - or at least very rarely. You rather hear that mass produced CCC-Trance (crappy, childish and cheesy) for the masses, which is, from a musical point-of-view, simply a catastrophe and an embarresment for the whole scene.
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always will be in any scene everywhere...
who will give a producer or DJ free records in order to do his work, give him food and a roof above his head? give a producer his equipment? if that would be the case i gladly would play on every gig for 0$ so could organizers borrow equipment for free and receive food and a roof for their hard organization work, then they won't have to ask for entry fees...
it all goes that way and yea it's easy to keep a party low cost when you got only 100 people, but when the music gets more known you need to find ways to give possibility for more then 100 people to party... so it gets bigger it costs more money you take a risk and need to find more people to reduce those risks... it gets more known and if something is loved then more people come.... and so on... you got the loop started...
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| So what to do? Could it really be that this whole scene and its basic non-verbal idea of just *purely being* had have so little real substance? Or have I been so fuckin’ delusional all this years, thinking of that idea as sharing it with others without having to talk about it? Or is the idea still there, but those parties aren’t the “place-to-be” anymore? So, where is it then?
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organize a party for yourself and invite the people you like?
or do we need to build a berlin wall around the scene in order to keep it safe?
the first is something we can do the second is just impossible i know i walk through the scene (and other scenes then just trance) and follow my taste... and it always brings me to the good parties sometimes those are big often these are small...
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| Just stand there in the middle of everybody, scream, cheer and whistle your ass off, with a can of warm, moldy beer in your hand and some amphetamines circling your metabolism and making your lower jaw compulsively nibble somewhere around the hair line over your ears, is all you have to do. Being such a drooly, gasping and noisy drug monster, you can always say, who ever is on stage just right now, makes the dancefloor “go crazy”.
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again that depends on what you look at first of all show me a scene where there is no drugs and i will eat my shoes (this is not to say it is all decent and there is nothing, not at all it's just to point to the fact that everywhere you got the people that trance and dance on music and you got people that trance and dance on drugs... even on other festivals and parties you got this phenomenon, and it is not "worse" in one scene then in the other, perhaps it is just more noticeable
i know that regardless it is a tranceparty or not that i always got the question asked if i don't have any substances with me... yep also on hitparade or 80's parties... so to think this wouldn't exist in the trance scene would be a bit "naive"
point is those people always make 100 times more noise then the ones that really go for the vibe... so they catch the eye more easyly...
no situation is stronger then a heart that dares to love
so may the force of life light and love be with you |
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Pete Sideburner
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
67
Posted : Mar 23, 2007 22:07
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i bet you were on the "sonnenklang" festival
not "sonnentanz" 
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Yes, sorry, that's what I meant.
Grüße ins Nachbarland.
I love humanity but I hate people. |
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Pete Sideburner
Started Topics :
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67
Posted : Mar 23, 2007 22:19
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| How are we gonna get it? |
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oh boi, that's the point i think. my answer'd be, we won't. we could wait until the next underground movement, or make it happen (or does it just happen?). meanwhile, let's live with the fact that it's gone for good, it *will never* return. find something else to do, work, internet, beer, do the same old stuff - accept it, it's gone for good.
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Thanx for your answer. I guess you're right. My post was written with that knowledge and desperateness. But I believe, that we still can get it back as long as we recognize each other on the dancefloors and we don't get taken away by the ordinarity. Then, new things will emerge by themselves...
Cheers, Pete
I love humanity but I hate people. |
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Pete Sideburner
Started Topics :
4
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67
Posted : Mar 23, 2007 22:23
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On 2007-03-23 19:45, rich wrote:
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On 2007-03-22 23:30, Pete Sideburner wrote:
So, who’s with me? Who wants that difference back that it once used to make? How are we gonna get it? Where?
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I feel like everything I've gained personally from psychedelic trance over the years is there for me to carry and manifest out into the world. Now is the time to put all the gifts to use.
I don't lament what the scene and music have become cos I understand it's just the natural progression of things. And I certainly don't want to try to 'get back' to how it used to be. That seems totally unnatural, or even an indication of some unhealthy dependence on something not quite healed.
I've grown, and expect the things that help me continue to grow are not going to be the same things as before. New music (yes it can be psychedelic trance), new friends (or better, friends that have grown with me), new challenges in life.
Bring it.
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I totally agree with you. I think I phrased a little mistakablely. I don't want *back* what was, I wonder where that what it originally was went. Because it is not there anymore, that's obvious. We don't have to find it in psytrance (maybe not) but anywhere else where it is to be found.
I love humanity but I hate people. |
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Pete Sideburner
Started Topics :
4
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67
Posted : Mar 23, 2007 22:39
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First of all, thank you for your reply. It was ny far the most mature. You did understand what I meant and your criticism just hits at the right points!
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go to any scene underground or not and you will see the same, point is what is it that you wish to make note on?
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Exactly my words.
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who will give a producer or DJ free records in order to do his work, give him food and a roof above his head? give a producer his equipment? if that would be the case i gladly would play on every gig for 0$ so could organizers borrow equipment for free and receive food and a roof for their hard organization work, then they won't have to ask for entry fees...
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I don't think that that really is a big issue. I orgnized parties with only 200 hundred peolpe and it all worked out. Of course organizers want at leat to earn as much money as the invest. That's natural and it's not about that. It's just that you don't have to negate your own musical taste in order to make at least your invested money. I think, in a long run, it will be more lucratie to stay with your odds, than to just fit in to the masses bullshit crap fuckin pusy crap!!
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organize a party for yourself and invite the people you like?
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Been there, done that. But what if all the people just wanna go mainstream?
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or do we need to build a berlin wall around the scene in order to keep it safe?
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Of course not and that is not what I meant. I'd rather want to show to the people what psychedelich really means. I mean it is not some kind of cliché, it can really hurt you. And today, most people seem to fear any kind of inconveniance or pain that it is nearly ridiculous how they get along.
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again that depends on what you look at first of all show me a scene where there is no drugs and i will eat my shoes
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Drugs aren't the problem, I am a big appreciator of Alcohol, Cannabis, Amphetamines, Opium and LSD myself. The question is, why and how you take em.
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i know that regardless it is a tranceparty or not that i always got the question asked if i don't have any substances with me... yep also on hitparade or 80's parties... so to think this wouldn't exist in the trance scene would be a bit "naive"
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I didn't say that. I just said that only in the trance scene, this is seen as some spiritually mature way of life. Which is of course utter crap. It's just drugs.
Well, cheers.
I love humanity but I hate people. |
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Aida Noridania
Started Topics :
2
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126
Posted : Mar 23, 2007 23:21
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| Drugs aren't the problem, I am a big appreciator of Alcohol, Cannabis, Amphetamines, Opium and LSD myself. The question is, why and how you take em. |
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oops then i misunderstood that part i now got the point you meant and yes you are right, thanks for having elaborated on that a bit more that's something where i can say you're completely right! but you will nevertheless find abuse everywhere too and yea then just "swap" the "no drugs" with "knowing your limits while using substances if you choose too" (in fact as i re read it i was a bit too black and white in the reply but otherwise it would had turned into a book  )
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| I think, in a long run, it will be more lucratie to stay with your odds, than to just fit in to the masses bullshit crap fuckin pusy crap!!
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yes i thought it was in that way but i kept the reply about that a bit short as i got a lot to tell about that too, the problem is that this just happens, nothing really can be done about it sad but true... yet there are still those parties that touch the heart and the soul, it's just a matter of looking and digging a bit deeper... of course the chances for a misstep are now bigger too i agree (i have that as well) but nevertheless i still manage to get to good parties because i got some good friends that make me noticed about them i stay nevertheless also in my odds when it comes to making my tracks i agree 100% there, even if that would make me a bit famous in 20 years i NEVER will make something "for the masses" i will make it for the people that are willing to listen to it... are it 10,100, 100.000 i don't care what i care is that the people that like it enjoy it and that number of people just is not important... or in my words: i prefer to play in front of 3 people that are having fun, are in the vibe and dance full out, in my backyard then in front of 10000 people that just sit and watch...
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| Been there, done that. But what if all the people just wanna go mainstream?
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yup you will have that flow, i have to agree, but believe me that the people you most likely wish to meet will get on it it might just take a bit longer then it did before... sometimes people wish to get back to the roots, but that needs time...
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| I didn't say that. I just said that only in the trance scene, this is seen as some spiritually mature way of life. Which is of course utter crap. It's just drugs.
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oops again misunderstood then... well that's a vast and broad subject so i took it a bit too litterally again thanks for the clarity
and on that point you are right of course, i thought you were referring to the spiritual aspect in general thanks for having clarified this!
well neither do i see substances as something spiritual even if i did use them in the past... it was for me rather "exploring" yet still being aware it were substances having this effect (what i always had was "i do not want to go that far that i don't know anymore what happened") and yes sometimes it can ungrip a rusty hinge but i ALWAYS reconsidder the experience when i am back lucid... a lot is then "superflu" after reconsidderation but here and there there are those little things you "got" yet that's not what i call being "spiritual" neither
so it's not that substances are the "holy key" far from it as even a lot of the experience depends on "how your mood is when you begin the ride"
it's for example a reason why i rather take a substance at home at a nice fire with some dear friends, rather then on a party...
but now i got the point a bit clearer
and last
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| Or maybe I’m just getting old and turned into a severe cynic at the abyss of my thirties!?
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i don't think so but just remember everywhere you still got good people and a good party as you are perhaps wishing to see, they are just a tad harder to find... the forest grew and the nice spots are a bit harder to find, but i am sure you will find them!
no situation is stronger then a heart that dares to love
so may the force of life light and love be with you |
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Xolvexs
IsraTrance Senior Member
Started Topics :
241
Posts :
2848
Posted : Mar 23, 2007 23:32
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the problem is there are no riddles in psytrance anymore...its become to easy to understand. is quite frankly very dumb and idiotic....where have the morons gone...are they on holiday or something?
When death comes to your doorstep, make sure you are alive |
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TiMMY
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
100
Posts :
1480
Posted : Mar 24, 2007 00:42
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Hey there Pete
I can relate to most of your thought, altough I haven't been partying in nature for a long time...
I think trance music is inbetween two evolutionary stages: on the way to become mainstream, but not quite yet there.
Ultimately, it will be people like us who will get sick of soul-less parties and start a new sub-culture in psytrance, with the purpose of bringing back the spark of originality that made us fall in love with psy in the first place. |
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alphathrob
Started Topics :
8
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33
Posted : Mar 24, 2007 02:14
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I completely agree with TiMMY´s opinion..there´s a huge difference between what was before and what we are seeing now: a lot of drugs now when the main drug was the nature landscapes; psy-trance parties concept closer to a mere "weekend funny-escape"...let´s see what will happens in the future or near future...
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ori_k
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
13
Posts :
222
Posted : Mar 24, 2007 03:03
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ok i know this will sound a bit stupid to you
maybe immature
but fuck it cuz i'm really tired hehe
the way i see it:
say we divide the psytrance lovers to 2 groups
the shit consumers u mentioned(x)
and the oldscholl idealists(y)
well i've never been to goa
neither have i been a part of this scene since the 90's
but i still feel a deep connection to the origin.
P.L.U.R to the fullest meaning!
and guess what? i'm not the only non-veteran that feels this way.
so lets say at the beggining there were only y types,
time passed and the x-y ratio became like 100:1
still
more and more y types are exposed to this scene every day-partially due to the increase in x types!
and this scene still manages to provide an ideal firmware to their lifestyle & ideals
be it a new truly psychedelic album
or a small 200 ppl gathering at some forest.
so yeah i'm y type all the way man,
but it is very likely that hadn't the psytrance scene grown to a point where so many ppl are exposed to it. . . . . . .
i still believe in psytrance.
i still enjoy the few bits of GOLD in this huuuge pile of SHIT
peace
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volvox box 2
Infect Insect
Started Topics :
2
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235
Posted : Mar 24, 2007 03:36
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there is still a giant goa worm passing trough our rektums and keeping us together in peace and head buzz. |
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Basilisk
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
168
Posts :
2984
Posted : Mar 24, 2007 04:25
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A stream-of-consciousness response:
The thing is, as a scene grows and reaches toward mainstream status and mass acceptance, there is always room for a thriving creative underbelly... lift up a rock and see what else is out there; don't expect much from the big marketing machines behind the mega-festivals. I think it is also helpful to consider, in hindsight, that the hippies had no more than one "summer of love" before it all began to fall apart. However influential that countercultural period may have been, it was very brief. Trance has continued to grow in a steady way for close to two decades now, and there are always options for those seeking a richer kind of experience. I agree with your analysis of an increasingly consumerist tendency in a scene that once held a more tangible kind of intellectual authenticity, but the true test of any movement is how it adapts to change. As trance grows and diversifies there is a certain individual responsibility to dig deeper and find the social context and the sound that truly satisfies them. Critiques such as these are healthy as well, for they get people thinking... and in a countercultural underground that virtually prides itself on a lack of any kind of message, more content can be very beneficial. Johann once mentioned in an interview that the psychedelic experience is timeless, without any specific message... yet this can be construed as a trap that the movement has fallen pray to; is it no more than vacuous hedonism that drives the worldwide expansion? Perhaps... but we are simply individuals with our own personal experience of music, culture, and art. We have the capacity to exert change in our corner of the universe, to select our own path, and to influence our own destiny. The future is still wide open; it is only that the popularity of the movement has spawned an entertainment standard that may be, at times, to some people, rather loathsome. It doesn't have to be that way... make your own way
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