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The Mother of all BASSLINES thread
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smoker
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
115
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873
Posted : Aug 13, 2013 13:38
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On 2013-06-30 18:35, Chemogen wrote:
Any idea how to go about replicating this kind of sound? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12Z87-hyLOo I hear it more and more often nowadays, reminiscent of deep techno imo. Sounds like two or more layers to me, one of them being a dedicated sub bass but what I'm having trouble with is the mid-bass layer.
It sounds way more voooom-voooom than a standard sawtooth off-beat bassline which has more of a accented pluck at the start of each note. I can also hear that bit of cutoff tweaking towards the end of a bar, and I'm guessing there's maybe a bit of a bitcrusher going down but what am I missing to that "vacuum cleaner" sound (if that makes any sense.) 
None of my attempts sound anywhere closer to the groove that's going on in the subs of that bassline. :/
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U-he ace + Renaissance Bass from waves
you got same bassline
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https://soundcloud.com/user-537936268 |
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B-recluse
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
147
Posts :
377
Posted : Aug 13, 2013 14:14
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sylenth 1 ,VB1 ,and Tal bassline i love ! love to use trillian but to expensive right now . what i like of sylenth 1 i can make every single bassline i want ,sometimes with VB1 but I'm a bit more happier with sylenth 1 |
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Jaadoo
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
145
Posted : Aug 13, 2013 15:39
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You can do this bass with any popular synth. No layering required. Layering corrupts the bass sound in Psytrance. EQ and distortion are the keys.
https://soundcloud.com/jaadoo |
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frisbeehead
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
10
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1352
Posted : Aug 13, 2013 17:19
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On 2013-08-13 13:32, smoker wrote:
spectrasonics trilian
spectrasonics trilogy
lennar digital sylenth
discoDSP corona
U-he ace
TAL-BassLine
PsyTrance Bass X1
best of the best bassline ----> moog
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yeah Moog if you can afford it! and granted you're familiar with resampling routines! otherwise it will be all over the place!
good thing is in Trilian the job's already done for us! and there's good samples for almost any famous sampler on the planet: ESX24, Kontakt... Corona does have plenty of waves from many legendary machines as well, no?
Nectarios has posted some samples from his Moog Minitaur and Psylocybian has made a ready-to-use rack for Ableton from them - plus some other stuff!
Reason why you need to do this is that Analogue synthesizers's waves are always running, they don't stop. This means the wave is not recycled for every note you press. So pressing the same key does sound different!
Ok, so what happens is that the phase of the wave's cycle is changing from note to note.
With psybass you want total precision, you can't afford to have this phase shifting Bass going all over the place. Same reason people sample notes from their hardware instruments and choose the best notes - some may even do that with digital synthesizers, since they don't always deal with lower frequencies all that well. But that's hardly the case with some modern synthesizers like Massive, for example.
In the digital age, the oscillators are precise and don't go out of tune! Unless some efforts have been made to make them sound like analogue. But imo, you can find such things as: "free" which means free running, actually kind like random phase for each note since digital oscillators really process the wave into existence rather then opening a gate to allow the signal to pass through, but this will give you the analogue kind of instability! You don't need it! Turn it off or look for "retrig" or some kind of phase lock.
So, being able to recycle the wave is a must. But there's synthesizers that allow you to choose the initial phase of the cycle. That's another level of control.
Notice that we need to get rid of all kinds of analogue modeling features for the oscillators. Nothing preventing us from making use of good analogue modeled filters however.
Another level of control is synthesizers that allow you to adjust the curves of their envelopes: linear, concave, convex.
Some even have multi-stage or user drawable envelopes - so that's even more control!
Some even allow you to control the shape of the wave of the oscillator or draw your own! I'm thinking Zebra 2 here. You probably don't want to steer away from a sawtooth very much, but there's hardly any perfect sawtooth wave on any synthesizer: be it analogue or digital anyway - you can check this with an oscilloscope. So there's a small margin for change even within the "sawtooth" domain.
But again, if you have Trilian and/or Tal Bassline (a very good SH 101 synth) you can check this by yourself - sawtooth doesn't always sound and look the same!
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Falkon303
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
33
Posted : Aug 14, 2013 01:55
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On 2013-08-13 13:32, smoker wrote:
spectrasonics trilian
spectrasonics trilogy
lennar digital sylenth
discoDSP corona
U-he ace
TAL-BassLine
PsyTrance Bass X1
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PsyTrance Bass X1 has some great sound demos... I'll definitely have to consider buying that one. I was able to get a nice saw bass out of Electrax last night. The envelopes are actually pretty punchy.
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Ryu-X
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
21
Posts :
74
Posted : Aug 28, 2013 23:21
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hey guys.. just got a Moog Sub Phatty and i am looking to get a hitech bassline out of it.. While listening alot to hitech it seems that KBBB Bassline combinations are not used on most of the tracks higher than 175 bpm.. It more sounds like one longer note that is sidechained or got some special ADSR Modulation on it. Am i completely wrong ?
I tried a KBBB Bassline on the moog via Midi, i think at higher BPM the VCO Gate Reset and so on takes too long for a good rolling bass. I made the first note velocity about 50% and tried almost every ADSR Combination, tweaking around for hours.. no luck...
So i would need to sample my favorite note from the moog and load it up into a sampler.
My question is does anyone have experience on HiTech Basslines ? its really driving me nuts because i cant get that hitech flow like on any Noise Poison track for example.
Any tips and recommendations i would be more than thankful !
Thanks Guys 
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www.soundcloud.com/ryu-x |
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
Started Topics :
187
Posts :
5292
Posted : Aug 29, 2013 12:46
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I don't have a Sub Phatty but a Minitaur.
Note Sync on, have the amp Attack a bit slower than 0/fastest to get rid of the clicks on the transient of the bass note and then just program the VCF cut off and VCF ADSR to get to the sound you want.
I don't listen nor make to the music you are referring to, but what do you mean by "i think at higher BPM the VCO Gate Reset and so on takes too long for a good rolling bass"?
You don't need to sample the Sub Phatty as it has Note Sync (VCO phase re-trigger).
If its the transient you are not happy with, add a second VCO (either in unison or an 8ve apart, I have no idea what type of bassline you are going for) and play with the "VCO Beat" parameter. That will give you even more options for transient content. You might find the one you like through that type of programming.
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts |
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frisbeehead
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
10
Posts :
1352
Posted : Aug 30, 2013 15:53
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You don't need to sample the Sub Phatty as it has Note Sync (VCO phase re-trigger).
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wow! never crossed my mind that would work like that these days!
is it just as "rock solid" as a software synthesizer these days? used to be all over the place (the phase eheh) with the old ones! |
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frisbeehead
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
10
Posts :
1352
Posted : Aug 30, 2013 15:55
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On 2013-08-28 23:21, Ryu-X wrote:
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nice cat you have there! |
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
Started Topics :
187
Posts :
5292
Posted : Aug 30, 2013 16:53
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On 2013-08-30 15:53, frisbeehead wrote:
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You don't need to sample the Sub Phatty as it has Note Sync (VCO phase re-trigger).
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wow! never crossed my mind that would work like that these days!
is it just as "rock solid" as a software synthesizer these days? used to be all over the place (the phase eheh) with the old ones!
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Yup, its as if you sampled it. I am also waiting to test the new Minitaur firmware where I dropped the idea of adding a delay parameter to allow the end user to select at which point of the phase cycle, the waveform will re-trigger.
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts |
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frisbeehead
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
10
Posts :
1352
Posted : Aug 30, 2013 22:36
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On 2013-08-30 16:53, Nectarios wrote:
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On 2013-08-30 15:53, frisbeehead wrote:
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You don't need to sample the Sub Phatty as it has Note Sync (VCO phase re-trigger).
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wow! never crossed my mind that would work like that these days!
is it just as "rock solid" as a software synthesizer these days? used to be all over the place (the phase eheh) with the old ones!
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Yup, its as if you sampled it. I am also waiting to test the new Minitaur firmware where I dropped the idea of adding a delay parameter to allow the end user to select at which point of the phase cycle, the waveform will re-trigger.
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very cool! I mean, I've heard about them having some kind of (digital) control for keeping the oscillators in tune, but wasn't aware they'd recycle the wave and allow you to choose the phase cycle even. Makes it much more appealing to me!
on topic, provided the envelopes are responsive/fast enough to cope with such speed, since it's able to reset the wave's cycle per note, you should have no problem using the Moog and should focus on tweaking the envelopes. choosing the right note to begin with is important, and so is the Kick in terms of it's shape, length and overall frequency content. the faster you go, the shorter the kick. I think many high tech is made on particular high notes, like on full on, like F or G and the Kick's loudest frequencies are somewhere round 100Hz imo. |
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frisbeehead
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
10
Posts :
1352
Posted : Aug 30, 2013 22:44
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On 2013-08-30 16:53, Nectarios wrote:
Yup, its as if you sampled it. I am also waiting to test the new Minitaur firmware where I dropped the idea of adding a delay parameter to allow the end user to select at which point of the phase cycle, the waveform will re-trigger.
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did they implement the "phase init" option with the new firware then? picturing that level of precision with Moog's oscillators and filters... feeling the levels of GAS rising here! |
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
Started Topics :
187
Posts :
5292
Posted : Aug 31, 2013 13:57
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On 2013-08-30 22:44, frisbeehead wrote:
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On 2013-08-30 16:53, Nectarios wrote:
Yup, its as if you sampled it. I am also waiting to test the new Minitaur firmware where I dropped the idea of adding a delay parameter to allow the end user to select at which point of the phase cycle, the waveform will re-trigger.
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did they implement the "phase init" option with the new firware then? picturing that level of precision with Moog's oscillators and filters... feeling the levels of GAS rising here!
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It is like the "phase init".
The update is only software and this had to be done with the available hardware on the Minitaur. So I suggested to Amos Gaynes (he is the main developer at Moog Music now that Bob Moog is no longer with us) that he added a delay parameter between the note trigger and the Note Sync, allowing the VCO to be "caught" at a different phase cycle. This adds delay in the actual trigger process, but this can be amended in the studio by a negative delay off set in the MIDI channel.
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts |
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frisbeehead
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
10
Posts :
1352
Posted : Aug 31, 2013 14:32
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On 2013-08-31 13:57, Nectarios wrote:
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On 2013-08-30 22:44, frisbeehead wrote:
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On 2013-08-30 16:53, Nectarios wrote:
Yup, its as if you sampled it. I am also waiting to test the new Minitaur firmware where I dropped the idea of adding a delay parameter to allow the end user to select at which point of the phase cycle, the waveform will re-trigger.
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did they implement the "phase init" option with the new firware then? picturing that level of precision with Moog's oscillators and filters... feeling the levels of GAS rising here!
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It is like the "phase init".
The update is only software and this had to be done with the available hardware on the Minitaur. So I suggested to Amos Gaynes (he is the main developer at Moog Music now that Bob Moog is no longer with us) that he added a delay parameter between the note trigger and the Note Sync, allowing the VCO to be "caught" at a different phase cycle. This adds delay in the actual trigger process, but this can be amended in the studio by a negative delay off set in the MIDI channel.
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It's also very cool that they listen to requests so promptly! Speaking for myself, I think you're making very good pub for Moog! Just one more thing: I noticed you don't have a ADSR kind of envelope on the Minitaur, but I know some new products allow you to access this parameters somehow (like the new Rocket from Waldorf for example), so, is it the case? otherwise, how do you feel about the envelopes on it? |
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
Started Topics :
187
Posts :
5292
Posted : Aug 31, 2013 14:47
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It was by chance that I started talking with Amos, he just happens to like some of my tunes and was looking for someone who was using his products for something other than '70s prog rock solos to test new firmwares in the Minitaur.
The envelopes on the Minitaur and the Sub Phatty are digital. They do the job just fine, yet they are not as punchy as a CEM3310 envelope (Roland SH-101, Doepfer ADSRs...etc...etc).
The Little/Slim Phatty envelopes are analog and sound punchier for sure.
But if you want to write steady 16th basslines with the Slim Phatty, you are entering a world of sampling, as the Little/Slim Phatty does not have VCO phase re-trigger.
There are only 3 knobs on the envelope section on the Minitaur but there is a Release button that you hold down and the Decay knob switches into the Release parameter. Does the job well.
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts |
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