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stop calling psy dark
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rainnice
Started Topics :
2
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22
Posted : Jan 25, 2007 09:41
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On 2007-01-25 09:34, soulfood wrote:
Are you people metronomes or something?
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hahah  |
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Jester Records
Jester Records
Started Topics :
24
Posts :
254
Posted : Jan 25, 2007 20:56
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On 2007-01-25 01:25, tsabeat wrote:
ahh you dont want to understand ...
i call all this style 150 bpm killerz "puki"
so what ?
and same apply to all genres , cause perfect stranger is not progressive , penta is not dark , suomi never existed from the first place , and defintly i cant find anything psychadelic in 50% of psy-trance realeses today.
well.. im out of here , if you wanna keep argue about how evryone see this , enjoy 
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Yeah, good point, we should all just say "I like music" and end it there..
ohh, but what kind of music do you like?? well, i dunno, im too stupid to hear the difference in sounds to acctually call it anything besides music.........
and bpm's have nothing to do with anything.. there is DARK techtrance music too.
but we should just call that psychedelik now shouldn't we?? or maybe call it psytrance ?? then when someone says " i love psytrance", who is reffering to Infected Mushroom, i can say, "YEAH, mee too, i love midi miliz" ..
funny how the odds of those two people acctually liking both artists (midi and infected) are close to none...
maybe because its not the same and should not be labeled as anything close to the same style.. i dunno, to avoid confusion.
If you make music and don't want to label it as anything, then call it "experimental" and get bashed by all the IDM people or something..
 www.jesterrecords.ca |
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ocelot
ocelot
Started Topics :
94
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783
Posted : Jan 26, 2007 12:04
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i just remember waking up about the year 2000 at a trance party and suddenly there were little housey Ooohs and Ahhs and the serious mystical tone had left the building in favor of BOOTY CALL 101...
if someone is trying to tell me this is PSY then I want to know
1)where did the real psy go? its my religion. i want it back...
2)why did the bootycall people suddenly get interested in the word psy? its not like it helps them sell music or anything...
i have more respect for Ibiza Cream than the sell-out of commercial sounding psy because at least it doesnt pretend to be offering the key to heaven... just a phat ride in a limo... you know?
i just feel like there are two points i've been trying to make here--
1) there is a wide range of music besides the proven formulas... calling every new artist DARK is not true, and not ok IMO. ok if they self-identify as DARK thats one thing- but dont make the jump without checking it out....
2) most of what people call psytrance today is NOT psychedelic trance--> and i point to precedent-
psychedelic trance is NOT some amorphous totally subjective term that can be used any way you wish-
it has to do with music that was the first to be called psychedelic trance- and WHAT is the legitimate artistic heir to this music? |
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Pt.
IsraTrance Senior Member
Started Topics :
236
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6106
Posted : Jan 26, 2007 12:17
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Year 2000 - "psy" became cool. Especially among the Israeli kiddies. You just weren't cool if you didn't dig "psy".
And the snowball began rolling. 
psy is my religion as well 
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ocelot
ocelot
Started Topics :
94
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783
Posted : Jan 26, 2007 13:58
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i agree that there is a lot of apocalyptic posturing and a lot of influence coming now from industrial and heavy metal...
i hope this does not make people close off to the possibility of new music in general and instead causes them to search deeper and look for quality trip...
for the record- i would say that most of the people i talk to who are INTO cocaine- prefer a softer vibe to their music- this may be cultural and reflect the price and "upper class" connotations of coke.
speed, unfortunately, is rampant in all the dance scenes and keeps coming back and rearing its ugly head to a new generation...
psychedelic substances are basically plant spirits (even lsd comes from a fungus in its original form- claviceps purpurea) and i would say they inform us about things ought to be... where there are 10,000 people on clear white blotter there is total agreement in the moment- i promise you 
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On 2007-01-23 20:03, astralseeker wrote:
simply the % of "dark " vibes in the psychedelic productions nowadays is so high that calling dark any psytrance tracks is logical in lots of people mind and sensitivity.
lots of people think that psychedelic trance as to be dark or acid or agressive to stay psyche...unfortunately....
psukos delos, soul travel
sounds can be completly full of harmony and hope and still induce soul travelling
maybe the more coke and other worst substances influence composers & listeners, the more this style of music will stay dark, speed, with this "end of the world" touch
...personnally i have always collect "morning" tracks, and still I found them as "psyche" as all your dark stuff
people need to describe what they feel about music, and words are powerfull ( like ohm and creater
if lots of people use "dark" to qualify what is not progressive, or morning etc.... it is probably cause it is
dark can be with or without melody
most of melody that are going down are "dark"
every single track influence one's chakras in a specific way
wether it "hits" uppper ones or not is significative
whether people smile or not during a track is significative
whether people look down the ground or rised up their arms to space is significative
I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT IS PSYTRANCE, FULLON , DARK, PROG, CORE ETC..
BUT MY HEART AND SOUL KNOW HOW HOPEFULL & GOOD I FEEL WHEN I LISTEN TO GOA TRANCE : -)
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ocelot
ocelot
Started Topics :
94
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783
Posted : Jan 26, 2007 14:05
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On 2007-01-23 20:01, LoveLikeRain wrote:
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On 2007-01-23 14:28, ocelot wrote:
LoveLikeRain -
so let me get this straight.
if i want to call engelbert humperdinck psychedelic trance then thats my right? |
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No,You are creating a a logical fallacy by misrepresenting my position. Reread what I posted. If you think engelbert humperdinck is psychedelic then so be it. Psychedelic is defined as
"Of, characterized by, or generating hallucinations, distortions of perception, altered states of awareness, and occasionally states resembling psychosis"
That my friend is highly interpretable. Meaning this can be many things to many people.
Trance on the other hand is defined by its 4/4 beat. Its not interpretable. Its defined by its beat. So while you can think engelbert humperdinck is psychedelic and be correct in your own mind, to say he is trance would be incorrect.
Therefor when you say Full-On or progressive is not psychedcelic what you are really saying is they are not psychedelic to YOU. No one own the idea of psychedelic. Some of our parents thought The Moody Blues where psychedelic. For me they are not, but who am I to say to them "no you are wrong this music is not psychedelic".
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On 2007-01-23 14:28, ocelot wrote:
ok. then what if i get a bunch of newbie trancers to follow my logic and we all adopt this as psychedelic trance? shall the actual psy trance music be forced to call itself a new name? perhaps a new name that the engelbert humperdinck fans came up with?
like maybe crap-trance. oh yeah. thats great.
so now when i look on wikipedia and find that some Engelbert fans have defined what is crap-trance and made me one of the main artists, then i should NOT object, i should simply just shut up and make music and not care is that what you are saying???
i object.
i object to you using the word "IT" to refer to a diverse range of music as IF it were something that could be summed up with a singular title- "IT" aka dark.
dont you realize that you cannot categorically refer to a category that we dont agree upon the existence of!
thank you. i REST MY CASE
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You have rested your case on a strawman argument. Your argument could be successful as it may succeed in persuading some people but it is in fact misleading, because my actual argument has not been refuted or even addressed at all.
The more I read your posts the more I see that you wish to have the term "Psychedelic Trance" reserved for your own personal definition of psychedelic. In this you can never succeed. As I have pointed out “Psychedelic” means different things to different people so people can and will call it whatever they like.
Like I said
Don’t worry about what others are calling the music. Just make music your heart tells you to and have fun!
In the end thats what really counts right? The rest is just attempts of the ego to control.
Lets go of that
Dance your dreams
Namaste
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lovelikerain,
i like your posts- i appreciate your subtle nuanced intelligent way. you get points in my book just for knowing what a logical fallacy is-
having said that let me proceed with the surgery-
While Engelbert may be a strawman (he is actually a lounge singer but i digress)
the real examples you gave are not.
psychedelic trance is a technical term to me.
it may not be applied willy-nilly to any sort of trance anyones heart desires.
here is the lay of the land as i see it:
there is trance- anything with a general tendency towards trance can be called trance.
the word psychedelic trance first came into existence to describe a style of trance that was filled with "strange noises" and "alien melodies" etc... this music derives more from the acid trip and less from mdma.
this music derives from NewWave and the BelgianBeat sounds- the strains of psychedelic rock are heard sometimes- the sounds of ethnic musics from all over the world are rolled into it... there is a distinct subtlety and nuanced respect for the trippers mind- this was the first music called psychedelic trance...
music that follows in this spiritual lineage is psychedelic trance.
the rest is trance.
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offthenutboom
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
55
Posts :
928
Posted : Jan 26, 2007 21:10
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This question keeps coming back all the time: What is Psychedelic Trance?
IMHO it is this quest to define it all, to create a set of standards, which apply to all, misses the point. Rules by which suddenly we must obey to fit in the psy trance mold... parties must sound like this, deco should look like this... no fluoro no psy trancer.
In then end what do we end up with. A constitution of laws that govern our art, music, dances... the experience itself. It creates a set of expectations that sets already a mood of boredom in many times.
For me it has come to a point, that although I love the ppl I met through trance, now I am searching elsewhere... for trance music and a psycedelic experience. Permiate oneself with all kinds of experiences and then bring all that inspiration, break the stablishment, the rules and introduce chance and change. Make it undefinable and creative. because in the end that is what this experience is about, transcending our perceptions, our reality and peaking @ a different understanding of who we are. Hopefully a greater one.
And I always say change is not easy. There is always a huge resistance to change. But, being open minded to a good time with great people always help
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thewatt
Started Topics :
0
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5
Posted : Jan 27, 2007 10:47
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On 2007-01-23 02:35, fire_dance wrote:
sic(k?) trance_it gloria inferni..
stop call it dark or psytrance, it's already psycore da swindle continues =))
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The only one psycore i heard was Infect Insect =)))) |
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thewatt
Started Topics :
0
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5
Posted : Jan 27, 2007 12:24
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its a very interesting topic i can say.
the problem of distinguishing trance music is very common now.
i agree with Ocelot but not in everything.
my position is: there is Psychedelic Trance as One General Style and it includes Gengres like goa sound, full on sound, psyprogressive sound and dark, experimental new tunes we see nowadays.
to me i see two main points here:
1. as far as so-called Dark Psy is a relatively new genre it has a lot of confusion within it.
there were no enough time for this genre to be formally shaped as a concept. though goa and full-on sound are practically shaped, imho.
thats why people call all the new strong, powerful, experimental and cutting-edge music - DARK.
and Dark, as i see in people's statements, includes many completely distinct sub-genres.
for example, Cosmo music is also dark, though i'd called it some "experemintal-idm trance"
some artists, as mentioned Penta or Yab-Yum, etc., are also called dark, though they don't have dark atmospehere in their tracks in most cases. i call it "funny dark" as we do not have better term.
what we truly can call dark is imho Baphomet Engine or Hishiryo.
sometimes people even call dark such projects as Derango with its forest music or Infect Insect with its psycore music or some English minimal trance like Deviant Species.
the MAIN problem, in my mind, is that we DO NOT HAVE CLEAR TERM for defining of advanced and highly energetic modern psytrance. that's why people keep calling it simply DARK.
this thing can be solved only in several years i think when the scene will put everything in its place.
and you'll have to wait for that, Ocelot, there's nothing you can do with people knowledge, and you can't stop them calling your music dark, even if it's not.
your music is highly energetic, fast and heavy and it comes closer to DARK concept than to any other. if you invent your own term for such kind of music, then it could be used once.
2. the other side of the problem is PERCEPTION.
the same music in the ears of different people will sound differently, it would be dark for one of them and wouldn't be for other.
thats why "dark", being less popular and commercial music within PsyTrance style, has to be defined by the representatives of more crowded and ruling full-on group within it, who tend to call it DARK because its obviously more powerful and darker than full-on.
and one more remark from me:
i mostly do not like full-on, though i listen to it sometimes, and there is a lot of good morning music and, for example, i like South-African music very much.
the problem with full-on is that i like getting in a STATE OF TRANCE, that's why this music is called trance?
and i dont think that full-on can get you in a trance state whereas goa and dark can do it with me.
full-on is too varied, too many melodies, all these crap vocal phrases just make it a music for listening and dancing but not a music for TRANCE STATE. it's more speed and E music than psychedelic music.
that's why it's hard for me to consider Suomi music as psychedelic trance. i think it's highly experimental, but it went away from psytrance the longest distance than any other genre.
the main thing for getting in a state of trance in my mind is that the music should be more monotonous, with recurring samples and sounds, in that case it creates a trance mood.
but still this is my PERCEPTION and i think there are people that are driven in a state of trance by full-on and not dark.
let the people choose what music drives them in a state of trance 8)))
so I think we should wait. the time will show us the right concept 8))) or just lets try to find this concept by ourselves. |
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Dennis the menace
DevilsDennis Sparris McHilton
Started Topics :
128
Posts :
2899
Posted : Jan 27, 2007 12:41
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Quote:
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On 2007-01-26 13:58, ocelot wrote:
psychedelic substances are basically plant spirits |
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And so is coke and heroin
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dE.Tonatik
Detonatik
Started Topics :
83
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2374
Posted : Jan 27, 2007 16:58
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c20h25n30
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Morbidelic
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
56
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3074
Posted : Jan 27, 2007 17:13
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kazuku
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
100
Posts :
1123
Posted : Jan 28, 2007 10:21
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I also agree with Ocelot on most points....the reason I fell in love with Psy was its otherworldly, mystical vibe....nowadays many people consider these aspects "dark".
I find very few releases actually dark, the rest is just pure psychedelic trance...dark stuff to me is mainly stuff like Catatonic dispair, Xenomorph(of cause), Baphomet Engine maybe.....
I dont understand how someone would say Quasar, Mubali, Ocelot are dark...even Highko...just how exactly is that dark... everything thats not crappy-happy-clappy doesnt have tobe the spawn of satan lolz
So..yeah pls stop calling real psy dark....
its fine...learn2hearkkthx
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Sound Surgeon
Crater / Mish-kah
Started Topics :
250
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2244
Posted : Jan 28, 2007 14:09
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yeah call it Fast-beatzzs
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Pavel
Troll
Started Topics :
313
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8649
Posted : Jan 28, 2007 20:53
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Also, i call dark psy everything that is psy trance but my ears can't stand. That term should also include Misted Muppet who's album literally made my ears bleed.
Everyone in the world is doing something without me |
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