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Son Kite on playing live in trance
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drooid
Sun Control Species
Started Topics :
13
Posts :
158
Posted : Jul 14, 2006 16:28
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I'm glad people see that using a laptop and a midi controller live doesnt *always* constitute a 'faker'. Simply amazing intuitive programs are on hand in the new day, and you get back what you invest in them.
I agree with FREGLE here, talented people will use what they can, and by rights, alot of people do it WELL! [we can draw a simile here to young football players in the slums of Rio or Nigeria, starting out with only dreams and kicking a tin can, to one day reach the world stage - beautiful stuff ]
as for my own live set, i only this year have started requesting gear beforehand from the promotors [so far no problems], as like my own personality and life, my live set is growing all the time in complexity and density. I WAS restricted for many years due to ONE reason.... $$$.... but the overwhelming desire to manifest your ideas was strong enough to make me tuff it out with some of the shittiest computers/gear ever!
@ seb, you ask why people limit themselves to perfoming solo? its often not a limitation, its a choice... a dramatic simile would be why Van Gogh didnt want to take turns with DaVinci
nuff bout that
Now, one thing i find sad and perplexing, is that *alot* of pepes find it hard to say "Live" when they dont see someone realtime 'playing notes, chords, scales, beethoven's 5th and hoola-hooping". It really is a hangover from the reality of yesteryear. There is alot to be said for someone approaching it from a different angle... The mere fact we are writing digital music on computers is oft forgot when people PERFORM on them hehe. weird, no? welcome to the future! If i get nostalgic for some 'human' musicality i rarely go to a trance event. i'll go to a jazz club... i'm an experienced 'traditional' muso, so please believe i'm saying this not as any disrespect to those who combine instrumentality and trance [its great!!], only that its not the way i'm personally seeking to take it.
to be a little kitsche [?}, there are really, theoretically, no boundaries given the time, means and aptitude of one or more induviduals! But you have to balance that against the pull of the scene to play out ur fledgling tunes, the reality of gigging week in week out for rarely anything other than peanuts [yes, not all of us are sponsored by pepsi [[or wanna be lol]] or can charge what we would like!!], which is in turn is managed by the size of the scene as a whole.
blessings cats
  the FATLINE is ending www.myspace.com/suncontrolspecies |
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fregle
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
11
Posts :
982
Posted : Jul 14, 2006 16:32
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tnx for ur posts rumble pack and drooid, this thread needed ur point of view and it is very usefull...
drooid: seb never said that he thinks that a live-act with a computer is not a live-act... he has a problem with people who don't use the live possibilities of they're computers... if an artist does use the computer to play live in a real way, then seb won't complain.. He also didn't say that u need to play chords or notes... He said u have to play ur instrument, and a pc in musical environment is an instrument...
it is true that there are people who have a hangover from the past, but I don't think that someone who is busy with electronic music will have this problem... Only listeners who think they know something about electronic music would make this mistake (there are even still people who think that a synthesizer is not an instrument, can u believe that?), and they should be ignored...
The thing that IS a problem is the fact that there is hardly any motion in someone behind a computer, so u easily get the impression that he doesn't do anything... There are solutions to this... the easiest is to project the content of his display on a big screen, and using midi-controllers, that way the crowd at least sees some motion, which is more important then a lot of musicians think... |
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drooid
Sun Control Species
Started Topics :
13
Posts :
158
Posted : Jul 14, 2006 17:14
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Quote:
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On 2006-07-14 16:32, FREGLE wrote:
drooid: seb never said that he thinks that a live-act with a computer is not a live-act... |
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yeh i know  My point is more to the public in general, trying to circumvent a preconceived idea that alot of people already believe
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the easiest is to project the content of his display on a big screen, and using midi-controllers, that way the crowd at least sees some motion, which is more important then a lot of musicians think...
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hehe i LIKE this idea! it will keep everyone honest THATS FOR SURE! the only drawback i guess is giving away little [ahem] "trade secrets" hehe
the FATLINE is ending www.myspace.com/suncontrolspecies |
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clown
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
97
Posts :
1777
Posted : Jul 14, 2006 17:17
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@ Seb : I think you are taking this personally, and you should not, because in my posts, we have went further than the text you wrote before and are no longer discussion your live act in particular.
Basically, about 2 years ago, it was me complaining about how lame it was to see artists press simply play on there laptops. Now im just telling myself to shup up about it and to stop being so egotistical about things. I didn't even appreciate the lovley music that was playing in front of me. and that was the sad part.
Now, you (no, not you, just in general) as an artist, if you feel the need to be more creative in your sets, FUCK YEAH definatly go for it and im sure the people will appreciate more. Just keep your intent clean and the positive vibes will follow and don't get caught up in the system.
and no, i did not say djs should pre-record there dj sets and just press play, because as a dj all we do is practice. we save alot of studio time because most of us do not produce music, therefor there was no previous time invested, nor any creative input. Dj's are live because we don't make the music, we share it !
"VA - REWIRED" OUT NOW !! (techtrance invasion) ---> http://forum.isratrance.com/viewtopic.php/topic/86303/forum/9
http://psy.techno.fm <------- Jester Records's Internet Radio channel
www.jesterrecords.ca |
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Seb
Son Kite
Started Topics :
47
Posts :
207
Posted : Jul 14, 2006 17:29
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Quote:
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On 2006-07-14 17:17, clown wrote:
@ Seb : I think you are taking this personally, and you should not, because in my posts, we have went further than the text you wrote before and are no longer discussion your live act in particular.
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Nope!
Smile! |
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Colin OOOD
OOOD/Voice of Cod
Started Topics :
95
Posts :
5380
Posted : Jul 14, 2006 17:48
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On 2006-07-14 16:09, Rumble Pack / Natural Flow wrote:
I want to hear 2 hours music from the same artist. I want to hear the latest stuff, stuff i never heard, and at the end maybe some of the biggest hits. For me thats what you really can expect, and thats completle enough for me. for me, thats the main purpose of a live act. |
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No. That's the main purpose of a DJ/Producer set. There is absolutely no shame in DJing a set consisting of your own music - and it's a much more honest way of going about things than making an arrangement in Live and dancing behind the laptop for 2 hours.
Mastering - http://mastering.OOOD.net :: www.is.gd/mastering
OOOD 5th album 'You Think You Are' - www.is.gd/tobuyoood :: www.OOOD.net
www.facebook.com/OOOD.music :: www.soundcloud.com/oood
Contact for bookings/mastering - colin@oood.net |
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Yuli
Retired
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
1660
Posted : Jul 14, 2006 19:07
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Quote:
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On 2006-07-14 17:48, Colin OOOD wrote:
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On 2006-07-14 16:09, Rumble Pack / Natural Flow wrote:
I want to hear 2 hours music from the same artist. I want to hear the latest stuff, stuff i never heard, and at the end maybe some of the biggest hits. For me thats what you really can expect, and thats completle enough for me. for me, thats the main purpose of a live act. |
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No. That's the main purpose of a DJ/Producer set. There is absolutely no shame in DJing a set consisting of your own music - and it's a much more honest way of going about things than making an arrangement in Live and dancing behind the laptop for 2 hours.
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Colin altho I agree with what u say, you have to agree that in a pre-made set with tracks specially fit to the occasion, with wise usage of sequencer programs sucha as Ableton Live and artist can present a showcase of his work much better then by DJing it. Altho I would call it PA set, still it is much more invested and interesting for the audience then DJ set.
I wouldnt completely disregard the hours that are spent in the studio to fit and create live versions of already existing tracks, and I do believe that many ppl in the crowd spot the differences.
Again, as much as I agree that it is not "LIVE" live we are talking about, it can be truly different experience that most of it was pre-made at home. There is nothing shameful about it imo.
A man with a "master plan" is often a woman |
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Colin OOOD
OOOD/Voice of Cod
Started Topics :
95
Posts :
5380
Posted : Jul 14, 2006 19:15
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Personally I'd still call it DJing, whether it's using a laptop or CD decks... for instance I know that this is how Darshan will be playing his DJ set at Tetris Safari in August. I agree absolutely that the hours of time spent in the studio preparing tracks (and even an arrangement if you can't click the tit in time) for a certain gig should be rewarded, and that there is nothing shameful at all in doing it this way if you're honest about it on the flyer... but what's shameful is calling it a Live performance when blatantly it's not.
Mastering - http://mastering.OOOD.net :: www.is.gd/mastering
OOOD 5th album 'You Think You Are' - www.is.gd/tobuyoood :: www.OOOD.net
www.facebook.com/OOOD.music :: www.soundcloud.com/oood
Contact for bookings/mastering - colin@oood.net |
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Watter
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
184
Posted : Jul 14, 2006 19:22
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@clown: I partialy agree with u on the djing part.... yes we do not crate, we share... but thats all of what I agree with u, because there is a lot of creativety that can go on in a DJset (and because some of us do produce...)
Explaining the creative process of Djing that I am talking about:
Some Djs just select tracks.. go there and play'em.. one afteer the other.. beat match 'em key match'em... and thats cool.. job done... but some of us just like to think that we can do much more than that.... u can sample things into the music... u can use efects... mix more than just enough to sikip to the next track and that requieres technics and creativity.... so in a way the process is similar to the one of a producer (similar not equal).... I guess in the end it all comes down to breaking the bouderies... doing more than just the basics.. and on doing that u risk making a mistake...
I know that I am far from beeing a great DJ and doing all the things I think makes one, and so I spend as much time as I can perfecting my technics and imagining new ways to do stuff.... belive me that takes hell of a lot of time.... so thats why I told u that what u where saing was that the dj should bring a pre mixed set .....
Not sure if I was clear.... sometime my line of tought is kind of errant...
Cheers
Ps: Yuli, I agree with u .. only thing is.. don't call it Live.. call PA set as u have briliantly put "open your mind....you might just see that there isn't anything to be seen" |
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Kitnam
Mantik
Started Topics :
110
Posts :
1151
Posted : Jul 14, 2006 19:35
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@seb
your answer is powerfull and inspiring. once again some artist words are leaving no doubts that his vision and mental focus are the more important components of his musical character compared to his technial-skills or classic musical-skills.
you are picking out the point of smelting together with the studio. man and maschine: the old question of human beeings and techno-music as a way to create an artistic fusion of bio and hardware. i have never thought about getting beyond the live-possibilities of a true rockband for example. you are absolutly right. havent i told that your experience with this organizer had a meaning? now, this counts for me too.
i have done a sum of "faked" and live-acts in the past. since an half year i prepare a live-set gaining for this higher possibilities, so far i need round about an half year more minimum. i decided that after tons of perfomences where was nott able to interact in the way as i wish. your thoughts give me more motivation to finish this project even stronger. Thank you!!! The second time you tell something hitting my head, guess what was the first time.
Thinking more about that I think the reason for this situation with this kind of problems in our scene is the ghost of ignorance. I mean that not in a offensive way, ignorance is not an active handling, its a kind of fear, many people think they wont get enough, but if we we would act more self-confident and waiving, we all would get far far more at the end. a scene is always a connection of all parts.
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Hg
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
73
Posts :
1076
Posted : Jul 14, 2006 21:30
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Considering Art,
in Hegel, as product of the spirit, which is superior to nature, for being a reflexion of the Truth, manifestation of men's conscience with respect to what he is inside (his soul) and his will to transform the outside world, this discussion is very very poor.
However, if we go back to Plato, the Ideal is divided in 3 categories:
1- The ideal music, which exists only inside our minds/ideal world.
2- The artisan or instrument/equipment maker, who can actually do something. Able to "copy" the ideal into a practical tool.
3- The artist, which is the worst of them, who makes a copy from a copy (instrument).
In our scene, the situation is a lot worse, there rules a fourth category:
4- The faker - who copies the Artist to make true hiw wish of being an artist.
This can be discussed ad nauseum and is a lot more elaborated, if you are interested please read the Book X of The Republic.
Hegel, on the other hand, thinks the artists are superior to nature and I agree, though I think we are far from being able to manifest the Ideal within our scene with harmony and not only power.
I do share with Seb the faith on this genre.
cna't find it |
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PRAECOX
Bigwigs
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
346
Posted : Jul 15, 2006 00:48
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Psycosmo
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
42
Posts :
787
Posted : Jul 15, 2006 03:58
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Maybe there need to be new categories of performance. I suggest:
DJ Set- Artist DJs Music which may or may not be their own, or a mix of theirs and other peoples
Producer Set: Artist DJs with only tracks they have worked on (released and/or unreleased).
In Person Music Presentation- Artist spends time between gigs remixing tracks and making special versions of their music SPECIAL for their next gig. They come and press play, but what they are playing is never the same at any two gigs.
LIVE Set- Fully Live, all the Bells and Whitsles
Personally, I just want it to sound good and be special. I dont want to be lied to. If I like the sound and dont feel tricked, I wont complain.
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shahar
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
155
Posts :
2035
Posted : Jul 15, 2006 09:15
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After reading all the interesting posts here, I must say that I think that I can sum things into one very important point that should be considered by artists- innovate, work hard, respect your crowd- don't be lazy! Make an effort!
Because the problem is lazyness and not bothering to make the effort- it doesn't matter that much if you have or haven't got money/time/musical knowledge (of course these help)- what matters is how much you're willing to use what you have to make the best of it. It is the artists that do not even bother to try that stagnate this scene and make it boring.
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"Be the change you want to see in the world!"
M.K. Gandhi
"There is only one corner of the universe you can be certain of improving, and that's your own self."
Aldous Huxley
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minus
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
103
Posts :
1614
Posted : Jul 15, 2006 12:07
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i have to ditto shahar : dont be lazy be hazey
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