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Son Kite on playing live in trance

Bom*shankar
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  19
Posts :  512
Posted : Jul 12, 2006 11:51
Just got the Son Kite newsletter.

Here's a quote:

"We mostly try to talk about the good side of things, especially in the newsletters, but this spring have been packed with negative tour experiences and we feel that we have to share some of that with you. If you get bored just skip reading!

When we get a booking we always send a technical rider/contract to the organizer that he/she have to confirm/sign. In the technical rider you get all the information about what we need to be able to make our performance and since we bring around 100 kilo equipment ourselves the organizer don't need to arrange much. Just to make sure that we will get everything we need our manager always calls three times to the organizer to make sure that they have arranged everything we need. Important to add is that we don't ask for things just for fun: EVERY thing we ask for is used in our live set and if we don't get it we can't perform. To us this sounds very easy and logic, doesn't it?

Here comes a short story/example of how it can be when you're touring and end up with an unprofessional organizer. This story is from the Souleclipse festival in Turkey, they made all the mistakes an organizer can do! Please note that they are not the only ones doing mistakes but this was just hilarious!!!

We took the flight from Sweden to Turkey 6.30 in the morning (just to make sure that we got to the festival in good time) and arrived at the festival in turkey late afternoon and there where nobody to pick us up at the airport. got picked up a few hours later (because some juicy champignons were going to get picked up), arrived at the festival area around 01.00. We where supposed to play around 8.00 in the morning so there was a lot of time to prepare the liveset. We thought!! Went to the stage and tried to find someone in charge. We couldn't find anyone so we had to do all the stage management by our self, until our dear friend and angel Sally Dollally came and saved us. (Without her help there wouldn't have been a live set from us). From 01.00 to 08.00 the three of us were working our asses of just to get hold of the equipment we need to be able to play, but after scanning the festival site for hours we couldn't get the stuff we needed and had to find out new ways with the things they had (12 hours before that the organizer made a personal promise that he had ALL the equipment in front of him and that he personally would show it to us when we arrived (we never saw him!!!))
So finally we have enough equipment to play with, but where? Before our gig was four "live acts" in a row, all just using a laptop playing a stereofile! When someone is playing you can't connect four meters of equipment (on a two meter table) since you then would have to disconnect the stuff he's playing with (even thou it's just a computer thru a 48 channel mixer and even thou it would sound exactly the same if he just pressed play on the cd player). This is the reason why you ALWAYS should have one dj in between two liveacts. To be able to play we had to build a new table behind the other one and do you think we got any help (except from Sally of course)? Anyway we managed to get everything ready 3 minutes before our timeslot, this means 7 hours of non stop stage-managing, stage building and equipment hunting, all well wrapped in frustration and irritation! How much motivation do you think we had to play? How much energy to do you think we had for smiling, improvising and to get into the music?
Different people are responsible for different things, also when you're making a party. The only thing an artist should be responsible for is performing, at his/her absolute best, the party organization should work at its best to create the best circumstance for the artists to perform and for the audience to enjoy the performance that is the point with having a concert or a music festival. People that love our music paid a lot of money to see us in Turkey and because of a shit organization we couldnˇ¦t do a good job, we are very sorry for this but we hope that people understand the reason. As I said before this organization is absolutely not the only one that don't know what a technical rider is, at least half the time we play we have to make weird solution to be able to play. If you're an organizer you should know your work and take it serious since you have a responsibility towards artists and most of all; your customers.

BUT we believe that the problem is much more complex than this and there is an explanation why organizers don't pay so much attention to our technical rider. There are hundreds of live acts in the trance scene, playing all around the world and earning good money and you could probably count the ones actually playing live on one hand! Playback live set in the trance scene is as accepted as djs playing with cd players, people even get surprised when you actually play live! how sick isn't that??? If you get booked and paid for playing live you should play live, if you don't have the equipment or the knowledge to be able to play you shouldn't accept the booking! If you're interested to play live, develop your way to play and let the world know when you're ready. We totally disrespect all the fake artists playing around the world (almost every trance artist) and we hope that YOU, the customers that in the end pay the money to the artists, claim your obvious right to enjoy live performances when this is what they write on the flyer! You should print t-shirts with the slogan "FFLA" fu** fake live artists! and if you come to a party and find an artist not playing live, go to the door and claim back your money!!! In this way the organizers will start to claim a non playback live set when they book an artist and hopefully this would force the lazy m****fu**** to work for their money. "

The bold is my addition.

What do you say? I totally agree!!!
Acidhive
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  76
Posts :  2014
Posted : Jul 12, 2006 12:06
I'd rather have an artist playback good music for me then him playing a liveset I will remember for a long time because it was so bad. I don't see the problem really. Everyone know that playing trance music live is very hard. There are only few artists who manage that. I say deal with it and don't get worked up about something that is bluntly obvious to begin with. Trance is effectmusic all around so playing live is hard. End of story. It doesn't mean artists are trying to diss you as public.           "Subconscious unravels at the point of death, and all time it has known erupts into a moment. As death extinguishes us, so we become it."

[Esoteric: Subconscious Dissolution Into The Continuum]
Zimon Post Forced


Started Topics :  2
Posts :  157
Posted : Jul 12, 2006 16:48
Quote:

Son Kite newsletter.

BUT we believe that the problem is much more complex than this and there is an explanation why organizers don't pay so much attention to our technical rider. There are hundreds of live acts in the trance scene, playing all around the world and earning good money and you could probably count the ones actually playing live on one hand!"



Quote:

As I said before this organization is absolutely not the only one that don't know what a technical rider is, at least half the time we play we have to make weird solution to be able to play.



Well 1st they bitch about fake lives, then they say that when they come to a party half the time they have trouble cause they can't hook up there gear, because the organizors havn't got what he was suppose to get.

SO HERE IS MY POINT, why bashing the fake lives (WICH IS PRATICLY EVERYONE) when they know the reason why they make fake lives (cause basicly half the time you have to hook up on a DJ table)
It's pretty de-motivating to come to a party with all your gear then not be able to do your performance. You do it once, 2nd time, then on the 3rd time you get enough, and for the fowlloing gigs you take only your laptop...

I belive most artists want to do real live, but under the current conditions in this scene it's just impossible.

Blame the shitty party organizors... not the artists...
Basilisk
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  168
Posts :  2984
Posted : Jul 12, 2006 21:33
I am in total agreement with Son Kite on this one... fake live artists are the bane of the psytrance scene in 2006. Anyone who says paying trance live is hard is right, but using that as an excuse is just lazy. The problem is simple: party people don't care, therefore organizers don't care, therefore artists never have to provide a real live show when they come to play. That's sad. The excuses that are made are even worse - from the Bushism "it's hard work" to classic "I'd rather have X than Y" where X and Y are both substandard performances where the ideal Z should be the expectation. Years ago it was "I'd rather have good track selection and bad mixing rather than bad track selection with good mixing" - never once considering "good track selection with good mixing" and the pattern continues with this issue.

The fact is, when an artist is described as playing live, they should be playing live. Anything else is pure deception. Think about it - the acts are being paid big bucks to come and hit play and dance around like a monkey (think Eskimo). They only get away with this because the people that go to parties are not informed enough to give a shit. Unfortunatly, the sad fact is that becoming informed usually leads to discontent and estrangement... when people wise up to how things really are, often it is just before they're on the way out. Think of this as psytrance's own "brain drain"...

How do we fix this? It starts with you. Organize some events in your area, and stick with artists which you know to be live. Become an artist yourself and explore the new possiblities offered by software such as Ableton Live (which is, in itself, a complete counterargument to the "it's hard" excuse). Do as I do and skip out on parties where you know the act is just going to play the same tunes from their latest album, in a different order! (thank you Antix for that stellar performance btw)... Without even putting much effort in you can write to your local promoter and suggest they bring true live acts or stop calling their headliners "live"... I think there are a lot of actions people can take to help cure the scene of this deplorable habit of dishonesty and deceit... all we have to do is reject complacency!
Pip
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  13
Posts :  149
Posted : Jul 12, 2006 23:47
Sonkite is the only group i've seen play live... and i mean LIVE! I mean where can u see live violin performances else?? I bow my head to Seb & Marcus.. FU***NG AWESOME GROUP!!           "The Only Good System.. IS A GOOD SOUNDSYSTEM!"
*Karma Cola*
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  113
Posts :  2314
Posted : Jul 13, 2006 02:18
Quote:

On 2006-07-12 23:47, Pip wrote:
Sonkite is the only group i've seen play live... and i mean LIVE! I mean where can u see live violin performances else?? I bow my head to Seb & Marcus.. FU***NG AWESOME GROUP!!




Ditto!           ~*** You can tell By the way i use my walk, Im a woman's man, No time to Talk***~
clown
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  97
Posts :  1777
Posted : Jul 13, 2006 03:02
Hum, i dunno.. People seem to care a little too much to details that don't really chance anything.. I think we often forget that the style we like and enjoy is ELECTRONIC music. not hardrock, not acustic guitar, not the fucken violin nor that stupid flute. What more is there to do LIVE ?? okay, so i must admit i use to preach about how its gay to have fake live acts, but common guys, GET OVER IT !!! You pay for a ticket to SEE your favorite artist LIVE in front of you, smiling and dancing and twisting a few knobs, not dance with his hot chixs in bikini's doing the fucken macarena. (although the chix in bikini's would be a good idea)

Damn, i sound like an asshole right now, but it just gets me ticked to see the people forget about the hard STUDIO TIME invested to make a track perfectly, to mix it to perfection and then to prepair a LIVE SET, pre-recorded or not. all this takes time and precision and honestly, i can't begin to imagine a REAL LIVE ARTIST WITH HIS DAMN GUITAR fuck up on a note durring his super officiel live act with jumping dogs through hoops of fire, while im on the dancefloor laced on lsd trying to understand what im listening too.. People pay for 100% quality, not to hear duvdev sing live..

what im trying to say is that let the artist share his music with the people and lets not get caught up in what he's doing on stage.

and what's wrong with dj's spinning with cd players???           "VA - REWIRED" OUT NOW !! (techtrance invasion) ---> http://forum.isratrance.com/viewtopic.php/topic/86303/forum/9
http://psy.techno.fm <------- Jester Records's Internet Radio channel
www.jesterrecords.ca
uri.ya


Started Topics :  6
Posts :  606
Posted : Jul 13, 2006 04:53
uri.ya


Started Topics :  6
Posts :  606
Posted : Jul 13, 2006 04:54
damm i love those son kite dudes

But wtf is wrong with dj's spinning with cd players?

Colin OOOD
OOOD/Voice of Cod

Started Topics :  95
Posts :  5379
Posted : Jul 13, 2006 05:37
Seems to me that many (most? don't know) people making trance music these days are just technicians. It's so easy these days to make something that sounds acceptable - you don't need any musical skill. The good stuff happens though when you inject some proper musical talent into the mix - and I'm not countint a talent in choosing samples or programming an especially interesting sound here, I'm talking about playing a musical instrument. Think about the artists and acts who are universally respected or who are major names in the scene - you'll find that as well as being able to choose/program just the right sound for their tracks, most of them can actually play and use their musical skills on stage. Compare that with (what seems to be) the great mass of the scene which, by the sounds of it, is made up of artists who know how to program their synths but not to play them - but can make a wild gated lead sound in step-time.

And of course where you have an artist who uses instrumental training to make their music, they'll use it on stage, too.

And Clown, just for you I'm going to play my next live set by pressing play on a CD player whilst me and the guys in the band sit round a chillum getting stoned - because other than the fact that they dance behind their laptops and pretend to do stuff rather than sit round a chillum getting stoned , that's what it seems that the majority of live acts do. Do you pay to see someone earn $1000 for danceing for an hour, or do you pay to see someone earn $1000 for PLAYING from their fucking HEART (to quote Bill Hicks)?           Mastering - http://mastering.OOOD.net :: www.is.gd/mastering
OOOD 5th album 'You Think You Are' - www.is.gd/tobuyoood :: www.OOOD.net
www.facebook.com/OOOD.music :: www.soundcloud.com/oood
Contact for bookings/mastering - colin@oood.net
Sonikyronic


Started Topics :  2
Posts :  32
Posted : Jul 13, 2006 05:44
can't you see'???? the problem is... well... i think that the problem is... hey, what's the problem about dj's spinning cd's????
by the way, he said nothing against dj's spinning with cd playets... he said that it is accepted fake prerecorded live acts as dj's spinnig cd's... why do you have to flame on each others??? oh my god!!!!! wheres the PLURality???

BOOM            TOXIC SHAKE - PORTUGAL
"FANTASY IS A PART OF REALITY!"
TrippyJohnny
Inactive User

Started Topics :  2
Posts :  445
Posted : Jul 13, 2006 09:42
Almost no one play live. There are a few reasons to why they don't. The main reason is as Colin OOOD said. Not many know how to play live or simply do not care. I doubt they even know where to find the "C" key on the keyboard.

The ones that do know how to play live many times have to see the organizers not being able to understand the concept behind a liveset. They can not afford more than 2 people on stage and to rent the right equipment. "Oh dont the artists bring their own gear and pay the container to ship it themself?"

I prefer a party with DJ's over a "liveact" that push 2 buttons and a audience that stand and look at the "stars" like a rockconcert. I might be off but I thought the parties was about dancing and getting into the music without the "stars" on stage and groupies looking up to them?

Let the liveacts play on Festivals where they belong and let the parties be about a journey without the Rockconcert theme. This will also solve the problem many organizers face today. That they can not afford to pay the not so known DJ's or pay them a very little price because the whole budget goes to the many times way to expensive "Stars".

my 2 cents.
TranceVisuals
TranceVisuals

Started Topics :  23
Posts :  743
Posted : Jul 13, 2006 12:16
One of the best "live acts" I last saw, was
Distortion Orchestra, the only person I have met
who also uses his feet to play (on the synths).
And claims to have German Implanted Titanium
Elbows (tm) to make extra tweaks and
turns of the knobs and keys per second.
aje
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  99
Posts :  1145
Posted : Jul 13, 2006 12:27
I once read an interview with Human Blue where he said that he thinks of his "lives" like a art vernissage, where the artist comes to show the work he has done.

Whenever I see someone totally faking it, thats what I think of to ease my mind.


          Check out my album: http://www.ektoplazm.com/free-music/gay-satanic-hippie-tiefenrausch
Yuli
Retired

Started Topics :  40
Posts :  1660
Posted : Jul 13, 2006 13:07
Well it is pretty simple actually.

90% of the organizers prefer to bring 1 dude with laptop, then 2 dudes with technical riders, special place on stage, drum sets etc..

That is the sad truth, and all those organizers spit in the well that our scene drinks from, cuz this is one of the reasons why the trance scene is so unpro and stuck in itself. It is the ONLY music scene I know where the real MUSIC makers are less appreciated then the computer / audio freaks.           A man with a "master plan" is often a woman
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