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shamanism in trance
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Psycosmo
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
42
Posts :
787
Posted : Jan 24, 2006 18:50
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Quote:
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On 2006-01-24 18:02, slyman604 wrote:
thinking your going to meet a real shaman as a westerner is absurd.
it would be like someone from mongolia coming over to the united states and saying to a preist or rabbi "im here on vacation for a week, teach me to a be a preist/rabbi".
it doesnt even make sense.
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Not really, and i dont see what doesnt make sense about it either. First MEETING a shaman is a lot different than BECOMING a shaman, and what would stop someone from Mongolia, if they made it over here, from taling to a prieist or a rabbi and learning about christianity or judaism?
Its really abusrd to claim that it isnt possible to meet a shaman because plenty of people have done it before. Visit the anthropology department at your local university and I doubt you will have a very hard time finding someone who has met with and interviewed a real, live shaman.
Whether someone raised in a western culture could ever undestand the true meaning of a shamans actions as deeply as somone from the shamans own culture could is a different story. Im not so sure that is possible for us westerners.
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JaLi
Started Topics :
6
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173
Posted : Jan 24, 2006 19:26
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I believe that shamanism and tripping on trance are two different things. Yes the two can have MANY things in common but still in mypersonal experience and view I cannot practice shamanism through trance nomatter how manny commons there are. From my eyes its like trying to get better at sex while only masturbating. 
However it is true that many people from our scene see these commons and want to get further into shamanism. But this wont happen by just going to club parties and one o.d. festival per year and then back to work.It takes real determination to seek & find and outside the "trance scene" limits.
But one thing doesnt always lead to another..Other people other minds.
Thats just what i think..
After a disscussion with a friend just a moment ago we ask :
Please whoever out there has met a real shaman please pm us to let us know how to practically heal the world... Thanx in advance
 Reasons to be cheerful are 3..! |
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Gopendragon
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
55
Posts :
2394
Posted : Jan 24, 2006 19:42
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ok the word shaman is very heavy expression,so better use the word shamanist for us who see the shamanic relation with trance,or even neoshaman because for sure I dont have the the sacred knowledge to heal someone who is dying,but I have the energy and love to share with nature and dancers around me to keep a harmonious ballance between us and heal the psychological traumas and problems of a miserable dancer next to me on stage or even help a posessed dancer to follow the right path,everyone can give a kind of shamanic guidance if he/she is really much awakened pure,clean, and concious full of light and sweet love emotions.
lets heal some misery...
~~~~~~~namaskar~~~~~~~~~
After the End,a new Begining startS.. |
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JaLi
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
173
Posted : Jan 24, 2006 19:48
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Being a good person doesnt make you a shamanist or neo-shaman ..
Keep up the good work though.
Reasons to be cheerful are 3..! |
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JaLi
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
173
Posted : Jan 24, 2006 19:51
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Btw, who is the posessed dancer?
Reasons to be cheerful are 3..! |
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Gopendragon
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
55
Posts :
2394
Posted : Jan 24, 2006 19:55
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Quote:
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On 2006-01-24 19:48, JaLi wrote:
Being a good person doesnt make you a shamanist or neo-shaman ..
Keep up the good work though.
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being a good person dont make someone shamanist or neoshaman,but a good person who have the basic shamanic philoshophy in his mind,and he is a trancer who dances in the stage ,and who knows well how to use his energy direct as a trance master from his own experience and a lot of other things that have been discussed in the topic on previous posts,sure maken him a neoshaman or a shamanist.
~~~~~~~namaskar~~~~~~~~~
After the End,a new Begining startS.. |
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Gopendragon
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
55
Posts :
2394
Posted : Jan 24, 2006 20:01
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Quote:
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On 2006-01-24 19:51, JaLi wrote:
Btw, who is the posessed dancer?
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the one who have left his physical body while he dances or even stop dance completely lost out of space and time,with his astral one,and be sooo away left who knows the hell where,possesed from a spirit wich have taken control upon his body,and needs the energy of someone else who is more landed and able with his energy to fight against that evil spirit around the astral field and take him back in his body again.
~~~~~~~namaskar~~~~~~~~~
After the End,a new Begining startS.. |
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JaLi
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
173
Posted : Jan 24, 2006 20:54
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i will not discuss the "posessed dancer" healed by the trancemaster anymore.
Someone who has mastered (" knows well how to use his energy direct as a trance master from his own experience ")these kinds of powers should not spend his time at helping bad-tripped people at psytrance parties..There is plenty of work to do in the outside world.
good luck
Reasons to be cheerful are 3..! |
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Psycosmo
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
42
Posts :
787
Posted : Jan 24, 2006 20:58
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@Goapendra
Hmm... unless the possessed dancer in question is lashing out and harming people I dont know that they need to be brought back to earth, most of the time they come back on their own, sooner or later 
Im glad you brought up the concept of possession in trance dancing tho. Many cultures use drums and dancing to induce a "possession trance" and this is quite distinct from shamanism. In shamanism the shaman is a 'master of the spirits', he (or she) controls them for the benefit of the community. In possession, however, the dancer comes under the control of a deity or spirit, and assumes their identity for the time they are in the trance. Read up on Voodoo traditions from west Africa and possession cults of Bali if you want to know more about this phemonena.
As I said much earlier in this thread, I think that trance parties have more in common with the loud, raucous, ecstatic quality of a Voodoo ceremony than with shamanism. Again, I reccommend the book Posession, Ecstacy and Law in Ewe Voodoo by Judy Rosenthal, as this book was a major influence in my formation of the above stated view...
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Aluxe
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
25
Posts :
725
Posted : Jan 24, 2006 21:51
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A girl told me once that while on mushrooms she watched a Coca-Cola commercial on TV, and that she could even find enlightenment on it.
Which makes you think that the truth is not really concerned about if you are riding on the bus, climbing the pyramid, in mount Kailash or watching TV in your couch. It seems the doors for truth are always open, wherever you are and in every corner of life.
And also, whether you are bobo dread, a policeman in lybia, or a whiteman in Finland I believe YOU can still be a Shaman and reach Nirvana. Shamanic insights talk about the unity of everything, so it seems you are actually missing the whole point by getting stuck on this. Just my opinion though.
And BTW, I actually heard that one of the top shamans among the Huichol Indians who use peyote is a white guy.
And come on here we are waiting for the shaman to bring us the wisdom to heal the world? As naive as it may sound, in some way I think it is correct when some people tell you: YOU ARE THE SHAMAN. Yeah, like turn on dude, or who did you think the world is waiting for??
A good quote:
"Only one revolution can succeed, and that is the revolution of the individual. You change yourself."
And here is another one:
"You cannot throw the responsibility on somebody else; you have to
accept the responsibility on your own shoulders. That is another way of
understanding the statement, "You are the world." We are continuously
shifting the responsibility.every individual, wherever he is, whatever
he is, should accept the responsibility of creating this world that
exists around us. Unless you understand that "I am also responsible for
this miserable and insane world," there is no possibility of change.
You cannot conceive that you can be responsible: "I may have contributed just a small piece..." But an ocean is nothing except millions and millions of dewdrops. A dewdrop cannot think that it is responsible for the ocean -- but the dewdrop is responsible. Without the dewdrop there is going to be no ocean at all. The ocean is only a name; the reality is in the dewdrop.
If revolution comes to you, it heralds the revolution for the whole
world. "
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"Human beings must learn to share the tears of every living thing,
To feel in his heart the pain of the wounded animal, each crushed blade of grass; Mother Earth is our flesh; the rocks, our bones;
The rivers are the blood of our veins."
-Huichol Shaman
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Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
60
Posts :
3709
Posted : Jan 25, 2006 06:32
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Aluxe - very interesting thoughts & quotes
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Gopendragon
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
55
Posts :
2394
Posted : Jan 29, 2006 08:07
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@psycosmo
as you know about shamanism the drum beat ,the ecstatic state,the trance,the trip,and spirits,and the possesion of dancer,the shaman sometimen find helpfull spirits and communicate with them just to give him protection,guidance or even check the land for him before he arrive at the place that is searching,sometimes needs to act like an animal to be able and pass a difficult state that an ordinary human dont have the ability or the stregth to act like that and get in the place he is looking for,so he could even became a tiger(that is why the sacred old shamans was wearing sometimes the clothe of an animal) to suck the energy of the animal and be stronger and have a kind of communication with it.
There comes a the danger that could make a weak shaman lost his own human identity completely and get possesed from the spirit of the animal,and then the animal start to take control up on the spirit and the body of the shaman.
That is why we see sometimes in the dancefloor person who dance wild completely lost who they could not even comunicate with other around,and that is one reason why I say be your conciousnes,even if you have to pass from such as those states for the needs of the trip dont forget your true human self and let an animal spirit be your conciousnes.
The shamanic trip have no any normal bondages ,you could be anything your like and you need with nature,you are nature and the how well and closer you feel related with nature and communicate with nature spirits ,WE are nature and nature is you,we could even fly as an eagle if you want and know how to do it...
so the more we understand how the cosmic system works,the energies of the cosmic web, and how much related are we with nature and energies around, we might get more closer and be one with the ground...as much we breath air feel that deeper relation and respect oxygene for the life wich gives,then if we believe with love, strong will,faith and use the fantasy of our imagination as a trully truth,magic is possible, and then we could even became the wind that blows and makes the shapes of the clouds like the best art draw painting as the most naturally easy think, like a dream that could became true...
~~~~~~~namaskar~~~~~~~~~
After the End,a new Begining startS.. |
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Aluxe
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
25
Posts :
725
Posted : Feb 12, 2006 20:16
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Has anybody seen that progam "going tribal" in the discovery channel? Well I saw this episode where the host went for one month to live as the Babongo people live in the rainforest of Gabon and he was innitiated into Bwiti and had to consume near leathal doses of the hallucinogenic Iboga root. Very serious ceremony, and it was very interesting because not only the shaman gets involved but the whole entire community and for about 3 days the innitiated is the center of the focus. So it ends up being and extremely powerful trip. The ceremony lasted 3 days and he couldn't reveal all the visions, but he said it was a profoundly humbling experience because he went back to lost memories of things he had done wrong in the past and saw how his counsciousness entered other people and caused them harm. And he was able to feel from the perspective of the person who is being harmed. The ceremony is supposed to be a rebirth.
Very serious stuff this ceremony, and you can die if you eat to much Iboga.
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Kitnam
Mantik
Started Topics :
110
Posts :
1151
Posted : Feb 12, 2006 20:24
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Which makes you think that the truth is not really concerned about if you are riding on the bus, climbing the pyramid, in mount Kailash or watching TV in your couch. It seems the doors for truth are always open, wherever you are and in every corner of life.
yes thats true.
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Psycosmo
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
42
Posts :
787
Posted : Feb 15, 2006 08:34
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Quote:
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On 2006-02-12 20:24, Kitnam wrote:
Which makes you think that the truth is not really concerned about if you are riding on the bus, climbing the pyramid, in mount Kailash or watching TV in your couch. It seems the doors for truth are always open, wherever you are and in every corner of life.
yes thats true.
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The universe in a grain of sand...
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