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roland tb3

Nectarios
Martian Arts

Started Topics :  187
Posts :  5292
Posted : Apr 28, 2014 16:31
Quote:

On 2014-04-27 23:53, sento wrote:
fuck roland! not caring for their old great legacy.. turning on making toys...


Roland is making a fortune from stage pianos to praise the lord jesus in the USA. MUCH more than what they would make from analog re-issues that people actually want.

As a company, they are doing the right thing.
As a synth aficionado that does not work for Roland, there has never been another company that pissed such a fantastic legacy, right up the wall.           
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts
klippel
Stereofeld

Started Topics :  91
Posts :  1153
Posted : Apr 28, 2014 16:36
Quote:

On 2014-04-28 16:31, Nectarios wrote:
there has never been another company that pissed such a fantastic legacy, right up the wall.


except for the roman catholic church that is           http://www.ektoplazm.com/free-music/stereofeld-frequenzwechsel
"I've always been a believer in musical repetition to draw in the listener and make the music hypnotic. Another thing I believe in is repetition." Alan Parsons
frisbeehead
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :  10
Posts :  1352
Posted : Apr 28, 2014 17:08
It's not that analogue is all that matters. Digital technology is great and can be credited for vastly expanding the realm of possibilities for sound designers. What happens is that while some developers fully embrace this technology and offer a wider palette of sound design possibilities and flexibility, there's the opposite direction where digital is praised for its ability to perfectly emulate analogue behavior - and for the later we have many names: virtual analogue, analogue modeling and the now hyped and acclaimed AIRA technology by Roland. Their claims are always the same: that they've perfectly emulated the non linear, often unpredictable character of the circuitry and interactions between components that contribute to the liveliness of the analogue sound.

Hands on control is also a major factor, like Nectarios's pointed out. That's the point where I think this new products by Roland can be good: specially considering how well they can be synced together.

But the point remains that when you're praising something like the old TB 303, you're talking about a simple analogue device whose sound has a lot to do with this little nuances inherent to the kind of circuitry used - that's where the juice is; that's the reason some people pay the extra money for the real thing (or the xoxbox) instead of a plug-in... This makes perfect sense to me, as I also think that if you're really into the acid sound, this little difference, plus hand-on access to the sequencer and knobs can make a difference. Otherwise, how well does this new TB-3 compare to something like D16's or ABL2? They're all claiming to have carefully replicated the circuitry of the original, it's all DSP technology made by experts and - to some extend - it does deliver...

the Nords and Virus also make such claims. but they've been around since the late 90's and they have some extra arguments in terms of flexibility, they're not built as emulations of one device, let alone one a very simplistic architecture. You get a much wider palette of sounds, so even to this day, it's more bang for buck. So the problem with this AIRA thing is that it's using DSP technology, albeit with a new name - but that's more to do with marketing then anything else, really - and they're presenting us with stripped down (in terms of specs) VA machines that are just as flexible as their CLASSIC analogue older cousins. What digital meant for the Virus and Nord isn't true here: more polyphony, more modulation options, multi-mode filters, etc.

Analogue is not all that matters, but if you're talking TB 303, then yes, it's all that matters because the TB 303 was, indeed, an analogue device and so is the XOXBOX - much closer to the original then any digital emulation will ever be.

The system-1 is different. It depends a lot on how many plug-ins they'll actually make for it. As it is, I don't think it can hold against the NL4 at all. And the SH-101 is a great sounding machine, but with a very simplistic structure to. SH-101 is great precisely because it's also got a very distinct sound and it's a very cool interface to fiddle with, plus a lovely arp section and a nice screaming (analogue) filter. So this are all analogue classics, this is "vintage gear" kind of stuff. So yeah, analogue is better at being analogue then digital, in case you're wondering. Digital also excels at being digital rather then attempting to sound exactly like analogue. And AIRA is nothing more then the refurbishing of old analogue classics under the pretense that some major new techonology was used that can take you as far, spec wise, as the cheapest possible analogue devices from the 80's and 90's would take you. So what are we talking about here? Digital claiming to be just like Analogue. New Digital recreations of old, fairly simple machines. It's neither analogue nor digital, it's marketing. But the fact remains that this devices actually do sound good, the interfaces are also good and they can, indeed, be used in both studio and live situations. Who cares anyway?

Silly people who thing analogue is all that matters... Well, stupid Roland who thinks using digital to recreate analogue is a good move. It's not the analogue spring, it's not fully embracing digital. It's not a new synthesizer structure either, it's just lazy ass marketing hype to appeal to the millions of people who've always heard about this devices without having the money to grab them... Nothing short of an Epic Fail.

Roland Sound? Check Euro Rack
woodster77
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  119
Posts :  1733
Posted : Apr 28, 2014 17:27
Yep modular is the only wasy these days to get close for a descent price I rekon,
Some good copies out there but no one really get it closer
Than some nerd in a shed,

Heard some acidlabs euro the other day and was impresssed wih he 808 kick they do,

In my opinion the tb3 is cheep enough to get into it but wont have any real long time impact so its a bit of a toy
Shame they get it wrong all the time,
Crazy why they missed the origional layout of the pots as well ????
          Â°Â°Â°ACTS 4:12°°°°
frisbeehead
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :  10
Posts :  1352
Posted : Apr 28, 2014 21:28
Quote:

On 2014-04-28 16:31, Nectarios wrote:

As a synth aficionado that does not work for Roland, there has never been another company that pissed such a fantastic legacy, right up the wall.




this!
OzMike
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  148
Posts :  1681
Posted : May 1, 2014 07:38
but they were never meant to be legacy products. When I was in Japan for 2 years I knew a dude who had worked for Roland, he said the corporation did not consider much of their products like 303 or drum machines to be anything great even though most formed the foundation of the house/techno scene.

They were always more interested in the profit side of instruments, so they will always go for what sells over what a few want. They make much more out of their piano's etc. than they ever would with synth reissues. Especially as their are so many replica's in software & cheap analog hardware.

It makes more business sense to make cheap digital version that offer a unique idea & can be purchased by most. From a pure profit point of view I think they are doing fine.

Leave it to Korg to fight the retro reissue battle.           Cuntus Maximus.
frisbeehead
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :  10
Posts :  1352
Posted : May 2, 2014 14:29
yeah, financial wise they're doing great!

don't think they're heading for a big shinny future though. synthesizer enthusiasts may seem like a small market that's filled with competition, and to some extent that's what it is; but there's still some companies functioning in a very "classic" manner that are doing well and continue to innovate and develop upon the research they've done in the past. obvious examples of this are: Moog Music and Dave Smith, to name just a couple of them. Moog has (arguably) a bigger legacy then Roland, but while a new Moog may sound and fell like an old one, there's a lot of under-the-hood innovation that made things better, such as incorporating digital chips into VCO circuits so that they keep in tune, cover a wider range, even allow phase lock (like the Minitaur) on some implementations. there's a lot of hybrid technology that's very recent and most people don't even notice that because the debate is usually around analogue vs digital, and that's kind of misleading. when things are done properly, and the focus is on innovation that's usable for users, current technology delivers more options and even new ones then ever before - and this is true for both analogue, digital and combinations of the two, like the DSI Evolver, for example.

Then if you look to the digital side of things and pick something like Massive, that I think has earned a place in history that's similar - in a way - to the TB 303, in that it's name is completely fused with new genres of music; you can see that Native Instruments doesn't shy away from showing their pride in this. This is the difference! They got there through innovation, thinking about what musicians might want for their music making adventures, rather then blatantly copying older technology, albeit using current or (misleadingly) new one - like is the case with the AIRA line and the likes of Arturia. TR-8 is nothing more then VA technology and a physical interface, not to different from Spark if you think about it.

The point is: presenting something old as being new doesn't exactly qualify as innovation. They only seem to care for their legacy as a marketing scheme to attract new costumers and that's it. What was the last time you've scratched your head over some Roland instrument? They've clearly lost their focus and they're no longer even relevant to serious music making people any more.
Yidam
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  144
Posts :  3171
Posted : May 3, 2014 08:21
The TB3 might be weak but the TR-8 looks like a pretty powerful piece of kit, too bad you cant load in your own samples, they would have destroyed all competition with a simple feature like that. Love the layout and the drum mixer, it's a live performance dream.
DJ Shpondra
Ruberoid

Started Topics :  8
Posts :  62
Posted : May 4, 2014 10:35
I got Future Retro Revolution R2 clone and it's 1:1 TB 303. Best clone. Period           _________
Nu Dovay!
frisbeehead
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :  10
Posts :  1352
Posted : May 4, 2014 13:41
Quote:

On 2014-05-03 08:21, Yidam wrote:
The TB3 might be weak but the TR-8 looks like a pretty powerful piece of kit, too bad you cant load in your own samples, they would have destroyed all competition with a simple feature like that. Love the layout and the drum mixer, it's a live performance dream.




to my mind it's not as simple as that. sampling has been around for quite some time now, and it's part of all the competition: Maschine and Spark comes to mind. Spark has recently been updated to version 2, now packs a fully modular system that's vastly enlarged the sound design scope of it; and Maschine is the deepest of all sound machines because it can do that and plenty more stuff to, its software is very similar to a DAW nowadays.

shame that this new stuff (both software versions) are only available for latest mac OS versions and that snow leopard continues to be the most stable and bug free version available, but that's another subject eheh.

I think, for the most part, people don't really need drum machines these days. It's mostly about the interface and having more fun producing beats and where the interface and software might take you creatively, rather then a necessity. You can make perfect beats with just your daw, you can synthesize drum sounds with any cool VA synth, you can work your samples in audio tracks or samplers, or digital drum machines of all sorts... it's never been this easy... TR-8 seems like a good option for those still using those sounds (house, electro, acid stuff?) for live usage, mainly because of the fun factor and the additional bonus of having the audience seeing you perform something live, rather then mouse clicking, but that's it... studio wise, don't see where it's an advantage, I mean, you need perfect timming and all midi stuff usually means a bit more work to get to sample acurate territory...
klippel
Stereofeld

Started Topics :  91
Posts :  1153
Posted : May 4, 2014 18:57
Quote:

On 2014-05-04 10:35, DJ Shpondra wrote:
I got Future Retro Revolution R2 clone and it's 1:1 TB 303. Best clone. Period



I had one, and while it sounds nice indeed, it just not sounds like a TB303 at all..IMHO.
ITs much less liquid and smooth. Totally different, more modern and cutting timbre. Sweet for Psy Bass and such things..           http://www.ektoplazm.com/free-music/stereofeld-frequenzwechsel
"I've always been a believer in musical repetition to draw in the listener and make the music hypnotic. Another thing I believe in is repetition." Alan Parsons
Yidam
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  144
Posts :  3171
Posted : May 4, 2014 23:25
Quote:

On 2014-05-04 13:41, frisbeehead wrote:
Quote:

On 2014-05-03 08:21, Yidam wrote:
The TB3 might be weak but the TR-8 looks like a pretty powerful piece of kit, too bad you cant load in your own samples, they would have destroyed all competition with a simple feature like that. Love the layout and the drum mixer, it's a live performance dream.




to my mind it's not as simple as that. sampling has been around for quite some time now, and it's part of all the competition: Maschine and Spark comes to mind. Spark has recently been updated to version 2, now packs a fully modular system that's vastly enlarged the sound design scope of it; and Maschine is the deepest of all sound machines because it can do that and plenty more stuff to, its software is very similar to a DAW nowadays.

shame that this new stuff (both software versions) are only available for latest mac OS versions and that snow leopard continues to be the most stable and bug free version available, but that's another subject eheh.

I think, for the most part, people don't really need drum machines these days. It's mostly about the interface and having more fun producing beats and where the interface and software might take you creatively, rather then a necessity. You can make perfect beats with just your daw, you can synthesize drum sounds with any cool VA synth, you can work your samples in audio tracks or samplers, or digital drum machines of all sorts... it's never been this easy... TR-8 seems like a good option for those still using those sounds (house, electro, acid stuff?) for live usage, mainly because of the fun factor and the additional bonus of having the audience seeing you perform something live, rather then mouse clicking, but that's it... studio wise, don't see where it's an advantage, I mean, you need perfect timming and all midi stuff usually means a bit more work to get to sample acurate territory...



Being a Maschine mk1 owner can vouch for its usefulness in the studio.... but to jam and play, and really enjoy the free use of instruments outside the "project" headspace I feel the need to get rid of the computer. In that way stuff like the Maschine and Spark just doesn't cut it.

Compare to something like the Elektron or DSI tempest that really take the power of sampling into the space where it can be intuitive and fun. Too bad they cost ridiculous amounts.

Korg did it back when with the Electribes, I really don't know why Roland didn't look at that option especially given that their new synth is completely dependent on expansion.
DJ Shpondra
Ruberoid

Started Topics :  8
Posts :  62
Posted : May 5, 2014 13:15
Quote:

On 2014-05-04 18:57, klippel wrote:
Quote:

On 2014-05-04 10:35, DJ Shpondra wrote:
I got Future Retro Revolution R2 clone and it's 1:1 TB 303. Best clone. Period



I had one, and while it sounds nice indeed, it just not sounds like a TB303 at all..IMHO.
ITs much less liquid and smooth. Totally different, more modern and cutting timbre. Sweet for Psy Bass and such things..


Killer piece of gear           _________
Nu Dovay!
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