faxinadu
Faxi Nadu / Elmooht
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Posted : Aug 23, 2013 16:38
well i have seen both merv from eat static and oood and was not blown away. merv djed from cds and oood played from ableton.
there is no such thing as real live in trance, only fake by degrees. if you trigger some loops and fx now and then that is almost as fake as fake live. also those that play the track and bring a guitar and play some silly riffs over the kickbass is totally silly imo, cut the crap play music
just make good music imo for the winner.
you simply can not replicate modern production psy techniques from the studio to live, it just always translates fake. you have so many things going on in sound design, mangling, fx, eq, compression, mixing, mastering etc etc etc etc that go into proper story and sound of a track that is work for the studio and can not be replicated, so just to call it "live", do i really need to see you turn a cutoff or hit some pad to trigger the beat? The Way Back
https://faxinadu.bandcamp.com/album/the-way-back
PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Aug 23, 2013 17:51
true ^
not sure how you would call it, psytrance or not but hilight tribe play real live though
pete
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Aug 23, 2013 18:17
Quote:
On 2013-08-23 05:41, OzMike wrote:
The problem as I see it is that 98% of the population want a job they enjoy and that's easy. So playing "live" with a laptop became so easy with Ableton to fake 98% of our scene does that.
2% of the population actually likes a challenge and I think that translates in to our scene, so you get about 2% of acts who go the hard yards and do a real live show.
I also think there's a very prominent attitude that if you do the hard yards in the studio why do it again live?
Again for the challenge IMO but most ppl want it easy. Modern human nature.
Eat Static for sure are in the 2%. Only saw them once in the late 90's and was amazing.
But this assumes the point of a live set in a party context is the same as any other musical concert. Id prefer a flawless not-so-live set to a flawed really-live set. Id go further and say that a truly live performance is distracting and shifts the focus too much to the performance rather than the dance experience-which, ironically, is why I dont care for psykovskys theatrics.
To be clear, I dont think your position is unreasonable, except for attributing other peoples way of doing things to sheer laziness.
http://soundcloud.com/herbert-quain
demoniac
Demoniac Insomniac
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Posted : Aug 23, 2013 18:27
Faking the knobs or not, if someone thinks he is playing live psy trance he is in big illusion imho.
Reasons why psy trance cannot be played live:
1. The bpm, on music over 140 bpm our minds just dont sync properly with our body movement so playing melodies always sounds weird, changing the loops and playing fx sounds is not playing live at all.
2.The paying fee for playing live is really low this days, artists would rather bring their hardware synths, fx, mixers & other gear to play their music live, rather than using Ableton which has the worst sound engine ever used on a daw + is super unstable. But since the fee is so low, artists dont have the money to invest in proper hardware or even if they have one, they not gonna fly their equipment worth 5000 euros for a stupid 300 eu fee.
3.There is no point to play one channel live, while the other 10 channels are playing on the computer, live cannot be done by one man, if it can it looks & sound retarded. Don't ruin peoples trance just so you can take 30% extra cash and play crap
4. The shame of the psy trance artists after seeing Ozric Tentacles playing live and comparing to their live set:
I play in Traktor, quit using ableton after it crashed on a party in front of 2000 people.
I mix the tracks, add some effects to spice things up here and there (traktor effects are great imho)
play a synth sometimes if there is a space in the mix. But most importantly the music is always there, people have the chance to listen my unreleased stuff and i am not faking anything.
When the party organisers are ready to pay 3000+ fee i will bring a band & bring our gear, reconstruct our tracks in to sections, and everyone will play part of the track.
Till that happens i would rather spend my time in to composing tracks which brings diffrent ideas & perfect my mix on the tracks.
That have more sense to me than going crazy on the cuttoff knob & pretend you are doing something to the sound and you are not doing anything, or think you are rockstar & move like a drunk monkey....
VA - Spiritual Science out now!
http://www.activemeditationmusic.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=703&category_id=6&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=7
Beat Agency
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Aug 23, 2013 19:05
Quote:
On 2013-08-23 03:52, Upavas wrote:
OOOD apparently plays live. Real live!
I am usually playing fx and leads over my tunes, and trigger them via midi keyboard and also effect them with some plugins via potentiometers. I am working on a more live set version, basically consisting of loops that can be played and combined in all kinds of ways over the course of several hours. Sort of something that cannot be repeated! Would that qualify as live to any of you?
OOOD does not play real live. They too have computers running prerecorded music and then they add stuff on top of it. That is not real live in my book.
But my point is. I don't really care about this live versus not live debate. I care about the result that comes out of the speakers. "Real" live can also be pretty damn horrible www.beatagency.dk
Nectarios
Martian Arts
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Posted : Aug 23, 2013 19:57
Quote:
On 2013-08-23 16:38, faxinadu wrote:
well i have seen both merv from eat static and oood and was not blown away. merv djed from cds
I have seen Eat Static play live as well. He was running a 24 channel analog desk, using all channel faders. I was blown away, it was the biggest set in Sol Fedt that year. Veteran producers where dancing and having a blast.
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts
PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Aug 23, 2013 20:08
what about juno reactor, maybe not totally psy though..
also sun project seen them once in the goa trance days
PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Aug 23, 2013 20:13
Quote:
On 2013-08-23 19:05, Beat Agency wrote:
But my point is. I don't really care about this live versus not live debate. I care about the result that comes out of the speakers. "Real" live can also be pretty damn horrible
+1
just faking is really a shame lol
pete
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Aug 23, 2013 20:39
Quote:
On 2013-08-23 10:07, ocelot wrote:
I think the problem is Psykovsky and his sycophantic defenders. I'm willing to take anyone on and argue that he is a total fraud... and not just about playing live... his "art" is a fraud, musically speaking...
Re his "art" I assume you are referring to standard criticisms regarding use of presets, lack of traditional musical compositional sophistication, and influence/stealing from other artists. How does your analysis take into account Psykovsky's development of a then-unique sound based on combinations of elements that nobody else was doing (at least to my knowledge)? Even when discussing favorite artists of mine with traditional criteria, for example, Zolod and Ghreg On Earth, it would be silly to not mention their overall sound independent of other aspects of their tracks. Likewise, if I were to describe why I like "Pitcher," my favorite from your new album, I would say it's combination of bass and percussion is a great overall style rarely heard in psytrance, but I don't think anything about the bass or percussion is particularly brilliant in and of itself.
In other words, imo a huge skill in any musical genre, but perhaps especially electronic dance music, is the ability to create an interesting overall sound, independent of any other criteria. And regardless of how one feels about Psykovsky's overall sound for the last few years, I don't think it can fairly be called fraudulent in that sense. It's strongest precursor was probably some of Alien Mental's work, but I haven't heard anything like Da Budet prior to its release.
pete
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Aug 23, 2013 20:40
Quote:
On 2013-08-23 20:13, PoM wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-08-23 19:05, Beat Agency wrote:
But my point is. I don't really care about this live versus not live debate. I care about the result that comes out of the speakers. "Real" live can also be pretty damn horrible
Djones
IsraTrance Senior Member
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267
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Posted : Aug 23, 2013 20:42
I prefer dj sets over livesets.
Most so called 'livesets' get boring real fast as usually they don't contain much more than just a randomized selection of their latest album tracks.
willsanquil
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Aug 23, 2013 21:07
Used to be hyper aware of the 'liveness' of acts. Now I do not care - I'm not there to scrutinize which knobs you're turning, I'm there to dance and be happy.
Having attempted 'live' myself a couple times, IMO its completely not worth it for psytrance music. The magic is in the studio.
Also, can't resist. @Demoniac....Ableton has worst sound engine of any daw and is unstable? Sorry, but that's absolutely ridiculous. Ableton's sound engine is fine, no different than the other top tier DAWs and as for stability...I have never had it crash at a gig ever. Especially with Live 9...no problems at all in a gig situation.
Plus...thousands and thousands of musicians use Ableton constantly and the only people who I've ever heard say things like 'bad sound engine/unstable' are the people who don't know what they're talking about or who don't know how to use it properly.
Beat Agency
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Aug 23, 2013 21:12
Fun thing is I think Ableton Live 9 is utterly crap. It totally mess up my set with multiple Harddisk Overloads even though I have a very reliable fast and workhorse of a computer (new generation i7 with 16 gb ram and Flash storage). I went back to good old stable 8.1.
www.beatagency.dk
willsanquil
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Aug 23, 2013 21:48
I have installed live 9 on....around 5 different computers since it came out. No problems of any kind on any system relating to hard disk overloads (or anything else)
8.1 was much more unstable for me in the studio, but never had a crash at a gig.
You two are literally the only people on the entire internet that I've seen who say that Live 9 isn't amazing. Not saying that you are lying..just that its very strange.
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch...you must first invent the universe
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