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PSY Trance and SAE Institute?
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Shilayeh
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
436
Posted : Jan 27, 2006 03:26
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i totally agree with you spindrift,on those 2 points
-that audio engineers that have shit loads of different job´s,in different areas,are at the end better engineers than the one that got stuck on the chair in the studio,and never did a live mix for example
-also that no1 learns the stuff just to become a teacher at the end is quite obviously 
but i dont agree with you_that an engineer is not specialised on his favorite area within this whole bucket of audio engineering! (and i assume you wanted to express that with your language professor example..right?)
so during his career he opens his mind more for the interesting areas that he prefers_like microphone techniques or mixing
and thats one of the advantages of such an institute imo : that you have specialised lecture´s that teach you in their favorite areas_and you get full up to date knowledge of what is going on out there (because most of them have full time job´s beside their minimal activity @SAE /note:im referring to the 1 in munich but im quite sure @the other institute´s it´s pretty much the same + almost every1 did at least the degree level at SAE)
i think you got my last post wrong
i just wanted to ask OTT what his definition of a teacher is_because on one hand he says that everyone he met with a SAE degree "had no clou what he is talking about" and on the other hand he agrees with you,that such a degree could be good to start teaching at such an institute_so what? for becoming a teacher the
"no clou" you get is enough?
no offence! i just wanted to know if he cares about explaining better what he means by that
alright im out for a cheese and bread snack ahaha 
sorry for the offtopic sensay   
one constant in life is change *_~ |
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Ott^
OTT
Started Topics :
0
Posts :
488
Posted : Jan 27, 2006 05:24
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Quote:
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On 2006-01-27 03:26, Shilayeh wrote:
i just wanted to ask OTT what his definition of a teacher is..
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As far as sound engineering goes, I think you can learn much more from listening to the recorded work of a great engineer than you can listening to him lecturing or reading his words from a book.
I like to think I'm entirely self-taught but really I was a student for many years, listening to the work of amazing engineers like Mack, Geoff Emerick, Conny Plank, Scientist, Joe Meek and Eddie Kramer and all the others who made the records I love.
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Alienstaff
Started Topics :
1
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3
Posted : Feb 16, 2006 11:16
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I did and I´m glad for it.
Lots of theory.. might mess around with sensibility of practice but not that bad..
The knowledge overcome lots of other dificulties.. so..
and there were other trance producers there as well..
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DJ Buju
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
70
Posts :
1334
Posted : Feb 16, 2006 13:55
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On 2006-01-26 18:20, Ott^ wrote:
Every studio I ever worked at, when recieving a job application from an SAE "graduate" would put the letter straight in the garbage. In professional studios SAE have an absolutely terrible reputation.
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Thats very true.
Our studio manager as always used to stick the SAE cv's back @ the bottom of the pile when recieving them...
In three years I'v been there we have had one SAE graduate from Glasgow and even he didn't last for long...
BUju |
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Fingax
Cosmic Station
Started Topics :
82
Posts :
1235
Posted : Feb 16, 2006 23:19
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OTT said:
In professional studios SAE have an absolutely terrible reputation.
I would advise anyone to stay well clear of them.
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sorry but this is absurd.
there are currently ex students engineering stuff like mel B and other very well known in the pop scene where the money rolls.i dont know whats your post all about. im not saying if SaE is good or not but what you said was absurd to me. just makes no sence and about your comment about psy artists there are many of them that acctually went through sae in their academic lifes.
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Fingax
Cosmic Station
Started Topics :
82
Posts :
1235
Posted : Feb 16, 2006 23:41
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On 2006-01-26 19:57, Spindrift wrote:
If you want to work in the mainstream music industry and learn how to handle a Neve or SSL I would say it's better to become tea boy in a studio.
It's for sure cheaper and you probably learn a lot more.
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i also share this opinion specialy about the skills you mentioned like sequencing, etc.
Also like OTT said the amount of money is too much.
but i think it becomes cheap in terms of equipment you get to know(very expensive ones sometimes) that you would never be able to now them and learn them. besides the free studio time as much as you want in better conditions that home studio with bad acoustics. and its not 10000pounds. thats the degree were the second year is completly unrelated with sound engineering; its music business and thats a hell of expensive year although as much as the first year wich makes the total of 10000pounds for 2years=degree.
but yes its better to start as tea boy in studio and get to know all of it in a non expensive way and maby non academic ..
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rumble pack / motion drive
Rumble Pack
Started Topics :
23
Posts :
270
Posted : Feb 17, 2006 10:56
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well...as one who did the short course sound assistant, i can give my oppion about SAE and about its nessesary..
btw. ott...i payed the course myself, im not a rich wannabee, neither my parents are so super rich that they pay me a useless scool..
anyway...i think SAE is good to get the basics of soundengineering, like what does a compressor, diferent kind of EQs etc...really the basics...
I learnd this stuff in a 1/2 a year, and it helpt me. For shure its damn expensiv, asnd i think to do the long scool, for the sound engineer is not nessesary, especaly as its incredible expensiv.
But all in all i think it helpet me at that point...
but what lot ppl said is true...from a sertain point, its much more helpfull to devlop your ears in your own studio...coz IMO thats what sound engineering is about. So, no need to pay 10000 pounds for that.
But for starters, who know nothing about all the technical stuff, its a good to get the basics. Coz if you have no cool proffesional sound engineers as friends..who will show this stuff??
www.myspace.com/motiondrive
http://www.myspace.com/rumblepacknaturalflowmotiondrive |
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Trold
Trold
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
123
Posted : Feb 18, 2006 06:24
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Ott^
OTT
Started Topics :
0
Posts :
488
Posted : Feb 18, 2006 13:42
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On 2006-02-16 23:19, Fingax wrote:
there are currently ex students engineering stuff like mel B and other very well known in the pop scene where the money rolls.
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I've no doubt. I didn't say that every engineer that went through SAE was an idiot [although all the ones i met were]. I'm sure there have been some talented people that have studied at SAE, but I suspect that they were probably quite talented before they went there.
SAE doesn't make you a bad engineer.
SAE doesn't make you a good engineer.
SAE makes some bad engineers think they are good because they have a piece of paper with "Diploma" written on it.
A piece of paper with "Diploma" will not get you work as a sound engineer. What gets you work as a sound engineer is a CD of the last recording or mix that you did.
When the guy that Fingax mentions went for the gig with Mel B, you can bet he didn't just turn up to the studio, show his diploma and get hired. I guarantee he was hired because somebody heard and liked the last recording he did.
And that is all that matters. You are only as good as the last recording/mix you did.
Learning how the equipment works is about 10% of being a professional engineer. 40% is inter-personal skills and getting on with people and the the remaining 50% is all about using your imagination.
SAE will teach you how to plug in a compressor and format a disk on a Neve VR. They'll teach you the difference between a dynamic mic and a condenser mic and how a high-pass filter works.
What they won't teach you is the other 90% - and it is this 90% that makes the difference between a professional engineer and a wannabe. |
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djsid
Aghori Tantrik
Started Topics :
85
Posts :
651
Posted : Feb 18, 2006 14:23
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yea trash the sae
i know i did
didnt need no pimpin my recording coz no1 wud understand the sound design of psytrance anyways..
the "paper" worked for me also..probably bcoz of the image they have in the industry for imparting quality knowledge by using industry standard gear..
for the loosers who went there n still didnt learn anything..includin inter personal skills and the rest of 50-60-70-80-90-100%, its bcoz they wud fail anyways no matter wat they did with their life
b0mmm
aGh0Ri TanTriK
Sonic Tantra Records
http://www.sonictantra.com
http://agh0ritantrik.weebly.com
http://www.soundclick.com/aghoritantrik |
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Pavel
Troll
Started Topics :
312
Posts :
8646
Posted : Feb 18, 2006 14:33
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Quote:
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On 2006-02-18 13:42, Ott^ wrote:
Learning how the equipment works is about 10% of being a professional engineer. 40% is inter-personal skills and getting on with people and the the remaining 50% is all about using your imagination.
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Very true
Everyone in the world is doing something without me |
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Trold
Trold
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
123
Posted : Feb 18, 2006 18:10
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[quote]
On 2006-02-18 13:42, Ott^ wrote:
Quote:
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A piece of paper with "Diploma" will not get you work as a sound engineer. What gets you work as a sound engineer is a CD of the last recording or mix that you did.
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I totaly see your point that it is the reputation as a good sound wizzard, is what will get u the job in the end....but,
Im from Norway and in this country u will even get a big problem getting the teaboy jobb without a paper to confirm u can handle the teapot!
So, Im 33 years old, been playing, recording, "producing" different stuff since i was 18..., but never worked in a pro studio (becase they are not easy to get work in, even as a teaboy.)
so..., what to do??
I was thinking maby go to London to get my "10% eqipment learning skills" on a paper....also meet up with other producers to learn from them...get contacts etc,....but im not interestet in waisting a lot of money on a school that dont have a good reputation.
So im still in this twilight zone.....
If someone knows of a studio that needs a "tea boy"....pleace let me know....he he.
Time of illusion.
Http://trold.trance.net
http://www.myspace.com/troldmagic |
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IndiAlien
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
28
Posts :
1224
Posted : Feb 18, 2006 18:28
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Its a good school for audio engineering (in spite of the suspicion that goes along with an audio engineering.. 'Degree').
For sure it’s a very expensive avenue in.
What u have to consider is for many, incl. myself it’s the only, relatively sure shot, focused path to procuring the tools of the trade… and the opportunity to gain experience on them.
Once done, I don't plan on marketing myself based on any piece of paper I hold, rather by virtue of the work I produce with the skills- or better yet, apparatus I have learnt.
I endeavor to be a good audio engineer... live, recording, mastering whatever... I have yet to decide the specificity of my occupation. What I can see from this forum discussion is that once I get my ‘Degree’ I should promptly dig a hole in my backyard n bury it deep!
What people must understand about SAE before anything else is that it DOES NOT offer a course in psytrance production. It does offer an expensive but arguably concise course in audio engineering.
I’m currently only at the diploma level, come summer I hope to land in Byron to finish the Degree.
Wish me Luck
q(@ _ @)p
there is a light that
flashes |
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Spindrift
Spindrift
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1560
Posted : Feb 18, 2006 20:07
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Quote:
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On 2006-02-18 18:10, Trold wrote:
Im from Norway and in this country u will even get a big problem getting the teaboy jobb without a paper to confirm u can handle the teapot!
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UK is very different than at least Sweden in that respect.
I know from working as a programmer for many years in the UK and comparing the to Sweden and I presume Norway is very similar.
Here official educations is valued much higher and for example 2 years of studies and 3 years of work experience is usually considered better than 5 years of work experience.
That is for sure not often the case in the UK and I had bosses tell me that thay from experience distrust developers with a background of formal education.
So if you want to work in the commercial music industry and have a go at getting a job in a studio in Norway it can be useful to have the paper from SAE.
But having said that it seems to me like it's nowadays very hard to get that kind of job without lots of workexperience as well.
The number of professional engineers is constantly decreasing and the need for fresh abilities is pretty much non-existant.
PA hire companies or theaters can be possible to get a job with on the basis of an SAE dimploma though.
(``·.¸(``·.¸(``·.¸¸.·`´)¸.·`´)¸.·`´)
« .....www.ResonantEarth.com..... »
(¸.·`´(¸.·`´(¸.·`´``·.¸)``·.¸)``·.¸)
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--==Bad Sector==--
Triamera
Started Topics :
69
Posts :
1812
Posted : Feb 19, 2006 07:13
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i dont think its a complete waste at all
and sae isnt only about producing music
it covers most of the streams in sound also u get to learn and get ur hands on decent equipment which isnt easy to get ur hands on if u arnt a loaded guy ...
helps some doesnt help some ... thats how its everywhere
anyways back on topic
arjuna and inner action also sae grads according to me
Nocturnal Wizardz Recs
Bhooteshwara Records
Cubasing is like Freebasing, just with audio.
Both cost more than you can afford, and leaves you sitting in a dark room with no life,craving for more. |
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