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Prejudice against Psychadelics
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___akira
Old Forum Member
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Posted : Oct 30, 2001 19:41:02
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[quote]if he did, all the movies he'd review would be great. :-)
[/quote]
I disagree, I had to sit through Citizen Kane when I was stoned and it still sucked. |
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___kaz
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Posted : Oct 30, 2001 20:38:24
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OK people, saying that taking LSD makes you have no more feelings means that you never tried LSD and probably don't know anyone who does.
LSD can be much more emotional than MDMA for instance, and I'm not talking about the more "real" psychedelics, like mescaline.
And saying LSD will cause car accidents so it should be illegal is dumb. People on LSD aren't stupid enough to drive (yet another reason why police shouldn't close parties - they force people who took acid a while ago to drive sometimes up to 3 hours back home while they're FUCKING high... it caused quite a few deaths in the UK during the 90s).
I'm saying that for practical reasons, psychedelics should be illegal (even though in a perfect world there'd be no need, and I think that people can and should use them in certain occasions), but saying that if you do not know what you're talking about and haven't given both sides enough thought, well, learn about it :) |
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___Sick_Boy
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Posted : Oct 30, 2001 21:33:02
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Asaf,
this is why i advocate Salvia Divinurom, DMT. The strongest hallucinogen there is. If it's possible to get more loaded than that, I don't want to know about it, if you can get more loaded than this, keep it away from me. It's also the shortest acting. DMT when smoked in most people is, return you to normal in under ten minutes. Under ten minutes! Now, this is interesting because people who think there's nothing to this should actually invest the ten minutes to find out what's, you know... A ten minute DMT trip is worth twenty years of academic pharmacology, art history, psychology and all this other malarky. We can all smoke DMT, or you can make it your business to now find out about this, and see for yourself. And not everybody agrees with me. But some people agree, and I think if you get two out of ten agreeing with a rap like this, then you'd better pay attention. |
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___Tridnod
Old Forum Member
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Posted : Oct 31, 2001 00:24:25
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>>Asaf
The "trip" of LSD can be very emotional, but not when you get to the "real" world again. You loose the sense of feelings if you take LSD for a longer time, and if you quit doing it, you feel like you must continue doing LSD, only beacause thats youre only way to still feel emotions. And we all know what happends if you take LSD regulary for a long time. R.I.P. And please don't say something else. And i also didn't say that there were alot of car accidents whit LSD. It was ALCOHOL. |
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___lysergic-604
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Posted : Oct 31, 2001 06:16:03
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Gadi Vered - u are just copying statements made by Terence Mckenna arent u. |
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___Sick_Boy
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Posted : Oct 31, 2001 09:14:41
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Kurt,
Alot of my info is based on research and work by:
Terrence Mckenna, espically: "Food of the Gods". yet also alot of it comes from some BBC specials by Dr Andrew Weil, author of "The Natural Mind: A New Way Of Looking At Drugs And The Higher Consciousness". Andrew Sherratt, from the the Ashmolean Museum in Oxford, co-editor of Consuming Habits: Drugs in History and Anthropology. Edward Behr, author of Prohibition: The Years that Changed America. Animal researcher, Dr Ron Siegel author of Intoxications and Fire in the Brain, Dr Andrew Weil and Jonathan Kingdon. Kurt, i would love to give you or anyone else more bibliography, for i think that there ris much to learn from these educators and others like them. |
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___kaz
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Posted : Oct 31, 2001 13:11:16
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As someone who has seen the effects of dmt firsthand, I can honestly say....
if you tried it, and think stuff like that should be legal, you have lost contact with reality.
dmt and salvia (well, the extracts especially) are very, VERY powerful psychedelics, and not everyone can handle those drugs - they are by far more powerful than LSD, mushrooms (in doses of less than 5gr dried mushrooms :)), mescaline, whatever.... The average person does not want or will be deeply shaken by being sent into a totally different reality, to leave his body into a new hallucinated world. Those two drugs specifically have very extreme effects on the mind, and yes, they can expand conciousness and show you that your ego is nothing in comparison to the rest of the mind, ayada-yada-yada.
But people who get on a bad trip from those substances (I personally had a bad salvia trip twice), should be prepared to handle it. I wouldn't recommend these things to anyone who isn't an experienced tripper, and that's why it definately shouldn't be legal, because only the really prepared people should touch those substances.
Someone with no experience whatsoever with drugs takes a minimal dose of dmt (25mg or so), and he will lose all contact with our reality for 30 minutes, and when he comes back, he will have a lot to sort out... do you really think the world is mature enough for that to happen on a wide scale? Leary and all his followers failed, why would it be any different now? |
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___Lo69sT
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Posted : Oct 31, 2001 13:50:46
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Agree wholeheartedly with you asaf. Psychedelic drugs should definitely only be used by the experienced - it would be too much of a brain strain and an emotional rolelrcoaster for the first timer.
But, my pet hate is alcohol. Why it was ever made legal again after the bootlegging in the US in the 1920's, I'll never know. It kills so many people every year through violence and car accidents, destroys marriages and families, and generally it annoys people when they see a pissed bastard relieving himself on the pavement out the front of a club. If you give a dog a sniff, he will want a bite, then another helping. Same goes for alcohol, and most other things in life. Pity the politicians are more concerned with catching druglords to prevent money laundering (a serious issue i might add), than they are with preventing deaths.
Honestly, that many people are killed each year through alcohol related incidents it is not funny. It actually quite disturbs me, not sure what everyone else thinks about it though.
But back to the psy drugs issue. You have to look at in the same way you look at everything else that is illegal, pot etc. Will society be able to handle it if these drugs were legal? That is the question here in my opinion anyway. Obviously, some people can handle the drugs, but the vast majority would totally flip out if they took a hoffman or had an original mitsubishi turbo or had to many mushies or whatever.
that's my 2 cents worth anyway. |
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___GuyShanti
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Posted : Oct 31, 2001 14:11:41
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my 5 cents:
after reading all that have been said (very interesting btw) this is what i have to say - every society need a bad guy to chase -thats what usually makes it stick together - a unifyed goal that is BAD compared to the GOOD sosciety. The worlds bad guys are named in the last 100 years by the Americans. Now its Ben Laden, b4 him it was Sadam, b4 that Nuriega, etc etc.
Same goes about chasing moral issues - what morals are good and which are bad. they too r named by American standards. now its Terror, b4 that it was drugs, b4 that was alcohol etc etc.
Every moral war creates its Bad guys - in this case the drug lords.
unfortunatly for us, the American point of view is a capitalistic one and that is what defines theyr perception of good and bad (Terror is bad for business equivalent). also unfortunate is the American short sightness that prevents them to see that they wars they declare MANUFACTURE the bad guys they then have to chase.
G
np: Yotopia - Go! |
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___lysergic-604
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Posted : Nov 1, 2001 06:31:26
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i also don't think anything more powerful than pot (only talking psychedelics) should be legal, as in going to your pharmacy and asking for some LSD or Salvia etc, but on the other hand i don't believe u should become a criminal for doing something as personal as altering your own conciousness. so its a very sensitive issue.
i think the best way is keeping such things a secret, kind of like what Salvia is like at the moment. plus this way, youre also less likely to get the average people using them.
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___pacman7331
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Posted : Nov 2, 2001 05:49:05
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Hm... why aren't psychedellics legal? Because of two reasons (IMHO). Allot of religions condemn drug use. And Bad trips. And they can easily happen if your not careful. One dude I knew took 2 hits of LSD and then killed himself... One of my friends ate some mushrooms at night in a dark parking lot, and had a very evil trip... tried to take a police man's gun... (to do who knows what) he was completly manic... and could not control himself. Think of this... If psychedellics WERE legal, you think the world would be a better place? I know it woulden't. Allot people cannot deal with what psychedellics can do to them, so they completly go nuts. If they were legal we would be much more likley to have random crazy people, out and making trouble. Shit I don't think I would want to be around a guy who took LSD that was depressed and angry before he used it... might think i'm the Senior Horned Demon from Zhahadoom and shoot me with his shotgun... Frankly, everyone isn't responsible enough for it.
But hey it could happen someday, the world is allot more liberal today than it was 50 years ago, (at least in America)
Oh and by the Way Gadi, your hypothesis on why civilization has banned some drugs and not others is flawed. You argue Caffeine is legal while smoking pot isn't, because caffeine makes you more productive and keeps your job. But alcohol is legal and that makes you WAAAAY less productive than pot does.
And people need jobs, hey man if YOU know a way to survive and live with a house and food and a bed WITHOUT a JOB. CLUE ME IN ON THE SECRET!! I'd be VERY facinated.
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___kaz
Old Forum Member
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Posted : Nov 2, 2001 13:16:04
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[quote]why aren't psychedellics legal? Allot of religions condemn drug use. And Bad trips. And they can easily happen if your not careful[/quote]
Well, those are two reasons, unfortunately, I think they aren't THE two reasons.
Guy came up with the big winner of the reasons: society needs bad guys - and politicians, policemen, religious leaders, teacher, and everyone else gives society those bad guys - the drug users (even potheads, maybe especially them in Israel)... drug users are "the evil within" the society, and therefor, are treated like enemy soldiers at times (eg. police busting a party, and you know how the police treat someone they catch with some pot).
Reason #2 though - our society can't handle legal drugs. Legalization of drugs would lead to modern society's colapse. I think that if all drugs were legal (especially euphorics, but society doesn't see a difference between heroin and lsd for instance), in the 4 weeks after that - we'd have to change the whole legal system, think of a different economic system, and a whole lot of other issues...
I think that the world we'd get as a result would be a better place - but that requires society to go a fundamental change - something that society itself does not and will not accept, ever.
what I'm saying is...
one step at a time guys, you never know, by the time we're 150 lsd might be legal again :) |
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___mascalita
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Posted : Nov 2, 2001 21:23:06
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reason no. 3: psychedelics can open your eyes (not allways, as i see from this thread). and that something the people who controls this world r afraid of. |
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___kaz
Old Forum Member
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Posted : Nov 2, 2001 21:31:14
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That was in point #2, if you think about what I left unsaid :) |
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___mascalita
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Posted : Nov 2, 2001 21:41:01
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why leave it unsaid? :) |
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