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Prejudice against Psychadelics
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___TrancEisT
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Posted : Oct 29, 2001 21:53:02
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and about laws - look, the first thing i believe (and hoffman said it himself) is that 5-6 times in your life that u take lsd its enough for changhe your mind forever and after it is just not functionally... try/do it, get the point and let it outside your life.. this is perfect (imo)way of this..
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Eli - explain yourself please, i really tried understanding this and i couldn't get your idea, though i understood all sorts of things.
Mascalita: i think what u said was very immature... yeah like, they should stop selling tushim too, kids can use it as a weapon ( it has happened...) so cut that out, what Gadi talked about is 2 actually dangerous drugs for what they are... not how/when/who uses it...
I agree with Gadi here overall, the leaders of this world, this country,this city,your school, job..... everything beside your fucking personal fredom (like when u take a shit for example) will always make rules that fits their interests best, their banks bests, and overall calmness in the world ... less demonstrations... less deaths... less balagan...
Globalization sucks, and it sucks that we arn;t really free in so many ways...
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___Anglo_Osakian
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Posted : Oct 30, 2001 01:51:29
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Yeah, I like that idea too Bob! I'd be there!
I understand where some of you are coming from saying that if alcohol, tabacco, knives etc.. are legal then so should pycadelics. But.....as Asaf said, there are some people who really shouldn't try these drugs, because of their subsequent psychological effects on the brain which aren't always pleasant and in some cases can land you in a mental home.
And here in Japan, the home of Crystal meth speed, you have all sorts of mental cases popping up here and there, and the mental homes are full of ex speed freaks!
Yeah, alcohol, tabacco etc.. are bad for you, and alcohol can lead to violent drunken attacks, but drugs that fuck with the brain, taken by someone who could possibly have a paranoid nature, or worse, someone already medically unstable then you have a possible killer on your hands.
I had a friend who was a speed freak, who went over the top and killed himself. When they found him, he was tied up in some wierd fashion on his bed. They found, in a book he had been reading, a piece about how dying was another way of travelling, and had all these diagrams of how to go about it.....which he had obviously followed.
And, of course, the same thing can effect people in different ways. You hear stories all the time about friends sharing a pill, one being fine and the other dropping down dead.....
We all know, or should now, the possible consequences of our actions drug wise. We do it of our own free will, so when bad shit happens, then we only have ourselves to blame. But you can't expect the Government to be okay with that.
In Britain, they have FINALLY slackened the laws on Cannabis. (Lucky you Bob!!) Probably cos you don't really see many dope heads running around axing people.........cos.....well, you don't want to and....can't!
I think what Holland is doing, is the best way to go. They apparently have people in the clubs there, who will check the contents of your E's and tell you if they are shit or too strong and what effects to expect. And then you are expected to make your own decision about taking it or not.
There attitude being that, if they are going to do it anyway, that someone should at least be there to decifer the shit for them.....
[color=Purple][/color]
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___Alpharhthym
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Posted : Oct 30, 2001 13:00:52
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OK folks, looks like we've got a business venture sorted if psychedelics are actually made legal!! What shall we call it? Any ideas? I know people can go nuts for just taking psychedelics but I think this is far less likely in a nice, comfortable place with people on the same wavelength. This was shown in the trip tents at Woodstock where people who had taken one too many sugar cubes were taken, lied down and shown ambient colours and listened to soft music. I know I've been in situations where that kind of treatment would have been just what I needed. If someone freaks out, let's look after them together. It's amazing what a little human to human affection can do - in all situations not just ones when you're trashed. I don't know how many times I've done this over the years for people and it's great. |
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___Alpharhthym
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Posted : Oct 30, 2001 13:09:54
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The more I think about this, the better an idea it seems! Does anyone know of anywhere in The Netherlands that offers an original place to trip? I know there are plenty of outlets selling psychedelics but I've never seen anywhere original to do them. There's this place in Camberwell in South London called 'The Den of Enlightenment' which is just the kind of place you'd want to do some trips, cactus or mushies in. |
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___Sick_Boy
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Posted : Oct 30, 2001 13:49:45
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I believe that psychedelics may aid us in deprogramming ourselves from some of our more lethal habits, such as war, racism, and consumerism. And I believe that the Internet will eventually provide a path of upward mobility for ambitious third- and second-world people who are trying to better themselves. After all, the Internet is a kind of vast, self-organized university--at least that is one way it can be used. And lastly, I am optimistic because I feel that young people who have grown up with drugs and cyberspace can lead us to the sort of society that can integrate these powerful technologies and allow us to leave the narrow confines of 20th-century thinking and its obsessions behind us. |
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___ChillCrew
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Posted : Oct 30, 2001 14:01:59
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Psychedelic drugs effect each person individually, and thus making it impossible to determine which guy will make love and not war and the other guy start a riot instead of sitting there with eyes all glazed. i for one think that "light" drugs, like MJ, should be legalized, since no Violence/Deaths were related to Marijuana EVER (apart from 2 deaths in which 2 stoners simply choked on their own vomit). on the other hand, i strongly object to the use of chemicals. extacy, LSD, and all of those halucination-inducing substances seem to have an undermining effect which everyone seem to disregard. all ppl care is "having a good time" and getting all grilled. no one thinks of the future consequences and that, I think, in that respect, is somthing ppl should take into consideration. there, i said my piece.
p.s. - this is all In my honest, humble opinion. anyone who begs to differ - be my guest. |
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___kaz
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Posted : Oct 30, 2001 14:11:34
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We all agree that psychedelics have very powerful uses (especially psychological ones), in which you can remold yourself in a way that you want through confronting the realities of psychedelic drugs (and that was the original intent behind LSD, and many experiments on this HAVE been done in the US, Israel and many other countries, unfortunately, with war veterans in order to confront them with those memories, which proves that even if LSD was controlled, there still could be an error of judgement).
I believe that if everyone would take psychedelics responsibly (considering physical and psychological factors, as well as research to all sides of the psychedelic substance), there should be no problem with ANY psychedelic drug use.
The problem is that we all know that making sure that everyone who uses a drug will do so responsibly is IMPOSSIBLE, and that LSD (and more extreme psychedelics like mesc, salvia, dmt) will be used by people who shouldn't. And it's a matter of time before people abuse the fact that it's legal, as well as people will get sent to institutions or will just be horribly affected (I'm assuming some of you people had very nasty trips, and know that not everyone can handle them).
I wish psychedelics could be legal, and I believe that with proper use, other than being a fun recreation (and a very intense one), they can be used for a LOT of good. But if they'd be legal, it's a matter of time before 14 year olds take 3 blotters to show their friends how cool they are (yes, 14 year olds can get acid even when it's illegal, when it'll be legal that won't change), or someone will find out that he shouldn't have taken LSD a week after a car accident where a friend died, or a million other types of misuse of the drug.
And even though I know that I'd probably be one of the first one to enjoy legal psychedelics, knowing the price it would cost to other people would make me miserable. |
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___kaz
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Posted : Oct 30, 2001 14:13:11
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Ohh yeah, and comparing LSD with coffee, tobacco, or alcohol is so wrong I won't even start saying why you can't make that comparison :)
We're talking a whole different league of effects (psychological as well as physical). |
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___mascalita
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Posted : Oct 30, 2001 14:16:07
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so cut that out, what Gadi talked about is 2 actually dangerous drugs for what they are... not how/when/who uses it...
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wrong.
that it is how/who/when.
just like allmost everything in the world.
eli- my friend also fucked up and got very crazy because of acid, and so do a lot of other people. acid being illegal didn't stop this to happen.
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___kaz
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Posted : Oct 30, 2001 14:34:02
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It's a matter of availability. Just like you can buy weed at coffee shops in amsterdam, but to buy big amounts you have to find a local dealer, and that's VERY easy there.
If LSD is a controlled (yet legal) substance, people will be able to get any amount they want, and very easily. That's the problem.
Of course people will still freak out when it's illegal, but if LSD will be legal, that will be a plague (we all know that the Israeli drug user is in average quite a fiend :)). |
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___Sick_Boy
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Posted : Oct 30, 2001 14:41:46
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We need to educate our children for the world that they will actually live in, give them some real survival skills. To me this means sex education; we have made a small start there, but against enormous opposition. And we need drug education--not the "Just Say No" malarkey, but real drug education that informs people of the real risks and benefits of these substances, and that also makes clear to people that the agenda of retail capitalism, the alcohol and tobacco cartels, may not be in one's personal interest. And finally, we must bring cyberspace into the classroom in a very big way. Sex, drugs, and computers are all society-shaping forces that are here to stay. If we do not inform our children of the dynamics of these things then we cannot say, in any serious way, that we have educated them.
Drugs have become an enormous racket, corrupting those who deal them at artificially inflated prices, corrupting the justice system that tries to prevent drug use by draconian measures, corrupting the medical establishment that must attempt to defend these irrational policies on scientific grounds. The only way to end the dope economy and remove the police and the judiciary from the corrupting influence of the drug cartels is to make the drugs legal, encourage real-cost pricing, and hence remove the profit from the enterprise. The removal of the profit motive, in concert with real drug education in the schools, could go a long way toward addressing this problem.
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___kaz
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Posted : Oct 30, 2001 14:50:49
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Gadi - I totally agree with the fact that the "zero tolerance" ideology that governments, police, anti drug agencies, media and society have against drugs is a bankrupt idea.
People who want to use drugs WILL use them, and if they want drugs enough, they will break the law to get them. That's something society will have to accept, and that's why people shouldn't be ignorant towards drugs and really know what they're getting into.
But just like sex ed. doesn't stop the teenage pregnancies that happen now and then, there will still be the abusers of the drugs.
I think that the ideology that people should use is to make sure that someone who has checked out all of the information, taken drugs responsibly, and then decided on his own opinion to take them again, shouldn't be jailed or outcast from society, hunted down by police and HIS OWN FAMILY (which is horrible, and that's what the anti-drug campaigns are for), but should have medical support in case he has a bad trip (because he will take it anyway, so a trained psychologist, and a couple of medics at a party will be more than helpgful), and a family to support him no matter what. |
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___Tridnod
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Posted : Oct 30, 2001 15:44:29
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The most sad thing is that when you have been taking for example LSD for a longer time, you cant feel any feelings any longer. Can you imagine how that would be like? In france 50 000 people die in car accidents beacause of alcohol every year! I don't think alcohol should be legal either. |
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___DCQ
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Posted : Oct 30, 2001 15:51:06
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hey bob, youre just lucky living in london, especially the south cos at least you got herbal caffees around there, here in the midlands its crap, we aint got NOTHING!!!
mind you, at least weed posessiopn is no longer gonna be an offence, tho i dunno how lonbg its gonna be nefore these reforms come in.. but again, in london, the cops are already starting to officially ignore ppl smoking/posessing weed. nopw all we actually need is for growing/selling weed to be decriminalised too (how the hell can this be illegal but actually smoking it, DOING the drug be illegal??!?) and were on a roll...
and guy.. vemi yaavi ochel leyeledim?
thatll be me............avi...
hehehe
sorry, im in a funny way, i just find that strangely entertaining |
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___Maxim_Kai.
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Posted : Oct 30, 2001 16:53:31
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As for i personaly believe that all illegal drugs (incl. psy-actives and all their analoques) should not be legalized. OK, i'm studying law, but i tried some psystuff. I'm not for it and not against. The thing that psy's are not addictive doesn't make them good. That thing doesn't make itself the good side of drugs. All drugs usually have good sides (but temporary) and bad sides. And psy's should not legally go to the streets of any country.
But all this stuff do not really forbid them. All of us understand that psy's will be in use forever. We cannot make something for legalizin' drugs or makin' them illegal. They just allways will exist.
Sorry for my crooked english ;) |
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