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ok here we go again...

offthenutboom
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  55
Posts :  928
Posted : Jun 10, 2005 17:36
Self justification is a bitch. I mean trying to convince oneself that downloading mp3s is the way to go, please... give me a break. Did you get the artist's, label's, distribution co's or the retailer's permission to do it?

I have downloaded mp3s back when audiogalaxy was alive for the sole reason of listening to the music and aquire a taste. Of course @ that time I played techno and acid techno and was spending about $500 in vynil. So I learned about the music, deleted my downloaded folder, I bought what I wanted and support this music I love. Now my CD case is 90% released material, 5 unreleased given by artists and 5 copied CDs from a friend who plays another style I do not buy (3 CDs). B4 I played techno I bought almost every release in vynil and 100s of CDs. It is my way of thanking everyone involved for creating and maintaining alive such an altruistic and spiritual ritual in the middle of this mechanized world. You can do whatever the fuck you want to do. Download for days, months and years until your 120 Gig HD explodes. It is your conscience not mine. I would understand this attitude with transnational corporations, but doing this to ppl who dedicate their lives to trance... It does not matter how you light it up, or what angle you take, it just feels wrong.

My conscience is clear, I do not have to get into any discussions about what I do. If I play I do the best I can supporting all who have created this experience. I could not do less. I do not ask for music and I am always thankful when artists give me music. I honor them and I keep the music my case.
Hidroponik
Arahat

Started Topics :  27
Posts :  1075
Posted : Jun 12, 2005 21:38
- 6. all most all dj started their carrier with ether mp3 cds or coppied cds from their friends.
---------------------------

man, i feel bad for all of the new dj's if this is how they are starting these days. I learned off of goa vinyl 10 years ago, then slowly started buying cds with my vinyl orders back in 1998. then i picked up my own cdj's. now my vinyl collects dust (or i record them into my computer, remaster, then burn to cd) and i spend about $50-100 a month on new cds.

there are a lot of veteran's in this industry that had a much different start to this kind of musicianhsip. I have about 2,000 pieces of vinyl that i payed for, breaks, techno, trance, and about 400 goa/psy records.

we didn't have the luxury to just steal music off of the net because we didn't have our own record presses to make a dub plate to play live.

Most of these records only have 2 songs on them and because i'm in america, i had to pay $10 for singles, $20 for full length albums. I'm happy as shit to be able to get 8-10 songs for less than the price of a full-length piece of vinyl!

The lack of internet technology helped weed out all of the NO-TALENT, HACKS, because you had to invest every dime you had into buying records. It didn't make sense to spend that much if you couldn't even mix a drink.

I remember passing up cigarettes and even food just to pick up 4 pieces of vinyl each week. Now that i'm older, i've found a way to budget-in buying new tunes.

If somebody passes a burnt disc onto me and I like it, I'll put on the list to buy a copy to play out. If I don't like it, I pass it to somebody else or just archive it on one of my spools.

Treavor from Moontribe here in California told me that something like iTunes is in the works for psytrance record labels. This could be the future, I'm definitely hoping that they get everything worked out.
DiMiTry
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  70
Posts :  2299
Posted : Jun 13, 2005 03:33
Quote:

On 2005-06-10 14:54, DJ Buju wrote:
Quote:

- 2. high quality mp3 like 320 sound the same as waves.


Now thats toatlly wrong, Even a 320kbs doesn't sound as good as a WAV file. Thats A fact. Might be twice as good then a 128kbs mp3 but never as good as full bandwith.



hmm.. I wonder then what kind of mp3s Richie Hawtin plays on his Final Cut setup.. nobody seems to complain.

          ..it's just another party..
offthenutboom
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  55
Posts :  928
Posted : Jun 13, 2005 22:30
Dimitry techno is a very different animal.
DJ Buju
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  70
Posts :  1334
Posted : Jun 13, 2005 22:36
On 2005-06-13 03:33, DiMiTry wrote:
Quote:


hmm.. I wonder then what kind of mp3s Richie Hawtin plays on his Final Cut setup.. nobody seems to complain.




Talking about big names then I wonder how Jeff Miles playes with 4 Turntables in one go and beatmatches all the four!!!?
No Final Cut man, pure old school spinning

Good Day          www.domorecords.com
www.myspace.com/domorec
www.myspace.com/tupanrecords
Janue
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  19
Posts :  514
Posted : Jun 14, 2005 00:05
old school baby!!!           If u are Something, Dont ask for nothing
If u are Nothing, Dont ask for something
DiMiTry
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  70
Posts :  2299
Posted : Jun 14, 2005 01:44
Quote:

On 2005-06-13 22:30, offthenutboom wrote:
Dimitry techno is a very different animal.



I don't buy that for a minute.

He's not the only big-name, large-sound DJ who uses mp3s on Final Scratch (not Final Cut, that's for video editing, d'oh!). There are plenty of others that play all kinds of styles of music from trance to dnb. these are just the "celebrities" here.. http://www.stantondj.com/v2/artists.asp

To say to psytrance is somehow "different" that it needs better sound quality than that is ludicrous.


          ..it's just another party..
DiMiTry
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  70
Posts :  2299
Posted : Jun 14, 2005 01:45
Quote:

On 2005-06-13 22:36, DJ Buju wrote:
Talking about big names then I wonder how Jeff Miles playes with 4 Turntables in one go and beatmatches all the four!!!?
No Final Cut man, pure old school spinning



yes, and I've heard psytrance played on 4 CDJs at once, beatmatched and all, and it sounded like shit. excuse my language. and that would happen with any style that's not ultra-minimal.

i love good techno and Jeff Mills, don't get me wrong, but don't really see how this has a connection to the mp3 thread.
          ..it's just another party..
DJ Buju
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  70
Posts :  1334
Posted : Jun 14, 2005 02:02
@ DiMiTry

All I'm saying is that Iv seen/heard Final Scrath and it is a wicked program but it's not what Djing is about imo.
It's a cool thing for a gig and if like anything else you can make nice & interesting things with it then good on ya

But this thread is about MP3 and your arrgument does not reffer to the sence that full bandwith tracks are higher quality the mp3.
If some djs play mp3 in any format and get away with it because people don't notice it doesn't make it better.

I think most of these Djs who uses final scratch are using their bought cds and converting them into mp3 and thats not what the type of djs this thread is about do... they wanna show off the have the latest music and it as never been paid for.

BUju           www.domorecords.com
www.myspace.com/domorec
www.myspace.com/tupanrecords
DiMiTry
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  70
Posts :  2299
Posted : Jun 14, 2005 02:06
There is a gazillion online shops selling mp3s for Final Scratch and CD DJs in all kinds of different styles, usually anywhere from 256kbps to 320kbps, and a lot of people play them all the time on all kinds of sound systems. I've never been able to tell the difference. I bet you've never been able to tell the difference. Unless you can show me some kind of scientific proof that "real" wavs sound different to the human ear than high-quality mp3s, I'm going to saikosounds as soon as they open their mp3 shop and buying up all the good tracks.

          ..it's just another party..
Liquid-Vision


Started Topics :  3
Posts :  660
Posted : Jun 14, 2005 02:26
^^^i've many a times heard DJ's play MP3's on large soundsystems, and the tracks usually stick out like sore thumbs, especially after CD-quality tracks. When I would find out whether indeed it was an mp3 or not, my judgement has rarely been wrong. This is by no means any kind of scientific proof, and I cant tell the difference between them (192 and cd/wav) on a smaller soundsystem usually either. I'm sure alot of other people know what i'm talking about, and have said the same thing as well, maybe someone with some more extensive sound-enginering knowledge could clear things up a bit.
Despite this, I would still love for more websites to sell more mp3s, definatly a good idea.           We are all visitors to this time, this place. We are just passing through. Our purpose here is to observe, to learn, to grow, to love... and then we return home.
DiMiTry
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  70
Posts :  2299
Posted : Jun 14, 2005 02:39
Quote:

On 2005-06-14 02:26, Liquid-Vision wrote:
^^^i've many a times heard DJ's play MP3's on large soundsystems, and the tracks usually stick out like sore thumbs, especially after CD-quality tracks. When I would find out whether indeed it was an mp3 or not, my judgement has rarely been wrong.



not a valid argument. A lot of mp3 tracks are unreleased and thus don't have the mastering that properly released tracks do. What you hear is the difference in mastering, not sound quality. I've done that mp3 vs. CD test in high-quality headphones before and wasn't able to tell the difference. And I've been studying/playing music since I was 6 years old and have perfect pitch, if that has anything to do with it.

all mp3 compressors do is cut out inaudible frequencies. I won't buy this "quality gap" claim until I hear some kind of audio engineer/scientific argument that proves otherwise.


          ..it's just another party..
s0ft
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  42
Posts :  825
Posted : Jun 14, 2005 17:31
mp3s also cut out duplicate or redundant frequencies to save file space, if im thinking correctly. but its not a perfect system.           The IsraTrance MySpace Group:
http://groups.myspace.com/isratrance

DJ Trypta Sets:
http://waxdj.com/djs/4354/
offthenutboom
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  55
Posts :  928
Posted : Jun 14, 2005 17:51
Mp3 technology
http://www.angelfire.com/vt2/tommymc3/MP3vsWav.html

MP3, or MPEG layer 3, has become a popular format for reducing the size of audio files. Most of the music available for download off the internet is found in this format. The reduction in file size is accomplished partly by compression, elimination of inaudible data, and the encoding duplicate data. The result is an audio file that sounds the same, but is not identical to the original. MP3 can be encoded at different bitrates, measured in kilobits per second (kbps). Music encoded at either 128 or 160 kbps will generally be of good quality, but for the purpose of burning a CD, the original .wav or CD-DA is preferable.

I think the key is
"elimination of inaudible data" I have heard several times from Sound Engineers not to cut away this frequencies from the mix. In big systems it makes a difference, since you will feel this frequencies even if you can't hear them.

Also The mp3s you get from P2P networks are usually slightly altered in EQ I have notice sometimes the track has to many mids, highs, lack in bass.

Dimitry - About techno. I have maybe 1000+ techno vynils @ home. From hard, to funky, to progressive, locked grooves. The production quality of a techno record is not even close to the cleaningness of psychedelic trance. Also, techno is produced with some analog machines. It is analog music... so IMHO vynil provides the power in this music. You play a CD with techno and it is just not the same. Also, does final scratch only play mp3s? Or can it play wav files.


DiMiTry
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  70
Posts :  2299
Posted : Jun 14, 2005 20:15

Yes, I am aware that techno has a lower production quality - not all styles are like that, though - Final Scratch DJs are not only techno DJs, Richie Hawtin was just an example. There are prog, trance, breaks, DnB, techno, etc. celeb DJs on the Final Scratch website. And yes, Final Scratch plays wavs also, but most people, from what I've seen and heard, use it to play mp3s they buy online.


Quote:
MP3 can be encoded at different bitrates, measured in kilobits per second (kbps). Music encoded at either 128 or 160 kbps will generally be of good quality, but for the purpose of burning a CD, the original .wav or CD-DA is preferable.



yes, you can definitely hear the difference in quality in a 192kbps and lower. I am talking about 320kbps and similar high bitrate tracks.
          ..it's just another party..
Trance Forum » » Forum  North America - ok here we go again...
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