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My view on the current party model
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full_on
IsraTrance Team
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Posted : Aug 20, 2007 07:20
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This post below originated from my ideas on the present party model, which was posted on the topic “There were Live Acts at Goa?”. I decided to open a new topic to discuss it and read other’s opinions in this new topic, avoiding creating parallel discussions on the original topic.
The original post:
As usual I'm only after the real facts. Knowing more pieces on the puzzle makes it easier to understand its whole picture even without seeing it.
What I wanted with this topic is to get some more evidence (just avoiding using the word "proof" here) of that I quoted in my last post and I'm quoting here again.
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On 2006-03-28 19:32, full_on wrote:
A lot of people say that "Goa had the best vibes", so in this topic I want to be sure if there were Live Acts in Goa. If not, this suggests that Live Acts are a product of the commercialization of the psytrance music genre, since the Lives are not necessary to create the best vibes.
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Back at the "Goa age" the vibe was incredibly positive, people were focused in having fun and enjoying theirselves and their psychedelic experiences in a "healthy" ambient were most other people were trying to do the same. There was no Live Acts by many reasons already pointed in this topic.
In my opinion, back that time is was very expensive to "have" a Live Act, because you'd need at least a computer which was very expensive, if it was a Laptop it would be REALLY expensive.
Today it is cheaper to have a laptop than a pair of Pioneer CDJs, a decent mixer and good earphones. So hardwarewise it is easier to setup a Live Act at your home than a DJ set.
In parallel today's party organizers use and abuse of the names of the artists (read Live Acts) to attract all kind of public to their huge parties. Contrary to the old free Goa parties, the only thing you need to qualify to get inside these huge parties is money.
IMO starting slowly at 2000 and at full speed today there is a movement in which a lot of people want to produce psytrance, mainly with the goal of playing in front of big crowds. You wouldn't believe how many people ask me daily to change their status to blue (artist) and how many of them don't qualify because they have no released track on their own and get very pissed at me.
Again IMO and with all due respect to the good artists, this is the result of the over-commercialization of our scene, the increased demand for Live acts, not for the quality of their music, but for their ability of attracting more crowd.
This thread really suggests that Live Acts are not needed, but they became necessary in the commercial party model existent today.
This is the same party model that reduced the time of the DJ sets to sometimes less than one and half hour, not to mention the ridiculous one hour Live Acts. Why? So that they can squeeze more "big names" on their line ups and make even more money at the expenses of the quality and flow of the music. There's absolutely no other reason why DJ sets should be shorter than 3 hours.
Also the other topic opened by me and totally related to my ideas about the current status of our scene ( http://forum.isratrance.com/viewtopic.php/topic/112719/forum/1 ) shows with undeniable numbers that it is impossible to artists to survive exclusively from the sales of their music, this encourages all artists to get other jobs or to have a huge booking agenda.
And to make things worse, the party promoter's marketing already convinced most people that Live Acts and huge Line Ups are important and necessary for a good party. A lot of people go to parties because of the "famous artists" on the line up, they build expectations around this and worse: when it come the hour of the famous Live Acts these people are usually full of drugs that impairs their senses making them unable to objectively evaluate the music. The result: every party is the best party ever.
Once more IMO this already destroyed a good part of the vibe in many places around the world, and what is worse is that some people in places with small scenes and great vibes are under the illusion that they "are lacking" something compared with other places, because they still don't have big Live Acts. This is a dangerous illusion which has the potential to destroy what they still have.
Respect!
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...Be gentle with the earth...
...Dance like nobody's watching...
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...I don't mind not going to Heaven, as long as they've got Coffee in Hell... |
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mk47
Inactive User
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Posted : Aug 20, 2007 07:44
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maby too many laptop and sequencer crappy / fake lives around in places where there are a lot of parties but then theres also bands like son kite (100 kg equipment for live?) , oood (4 guys , synths , drums , guitar .. the works) , eat static (iv heard do a really good `live`) .. and theres an indian electronic band jalebi cartel (4 guys , synths , laptops , live percussion ..etc) ..and many more no doubt.. these are good to watch .. interactive + i dont think they `fake ` it on stage .. makes for a nice spectacle .. better than a dj just mixing cds .. visually at least .. but for the music , pl will always debate and crib .. live dont give the artist enough room to experiment , dj sets are more versatile etc etc .. so basically .. a good live set imo is really nice .. in india afaik there really hasnt been any real `live`set ever ..
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On 2007-08-20 07:20, full_on wrote:
...dangerous illusion which has the potential to destroy what they still have.
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hehe , its been destroyed for a while now already .. getting GOOD live acts can only be a boon for the scene here .
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full_on
IsraTrance Team
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Posted : Aug 20, 2007 07:55
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I couldn't care less if some Live Act "makes for a nice spectacle". I go to parties to listen to trippy music not to spectacles. If I wanted spectacles I'd go to some good rock concert or to watch the symphony orchestra or philharmonic orchestra, whatever you call it.
This topic is not to discuss if Live Acts are really live or not, there are already 5 hundred zillion topics about this.
But one interesting thing is that if Live Acts are fake then it suggests that they are popular just because of the marketing effect they have.
Respect!
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...Be gentle with the earth...
...Dance like nobody's watching...
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...I don't mind not going to Heaven, as long as they've got Coffee in Hell... |
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Yidam
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Aug 20, 2007 08:06
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I think Live is more a reflection of the technology at hand. As an artist you don't need a DJ to play your tracks. It has all the advantages: cheaper startup cost, massive amounts of resources on the internet, a bigger pool of people to learn from and instant feedback. no point trying to fight it because its where sound presentation is heading and people demand that kind of originality.
DJing is passing into the oldschool. IMO, DJing will surpass the trend of Live acts because its not completely dependant on technology. A good DJ is not just good technically, its about feeling it... bringing it... killing it. Sometimes it happens sometimes it doesnt. Great DJs make it happen all the time and will keep playing as long as we have this music. DJing is an artform in itself, more alive than Live, giving all who stand behind the decks an equal opportunity to rock and roll.
...if organisers really want the experience to be a balance between the synchronized and human, a chill stage is a must. expand it.
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faxinadu
Faxi Nadu / Elmooht
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Posted : Aug 20, 2007 13:45
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i don't know if i agree with all of this, but very intresting to think about it for sure.
it all depends on why its done. if you are doing a live act for the fun and the marvel of it then why not?
The Way Back
https://faxinadu.bandcamp.com/album/the-way-back |
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cacofonix
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Aug 20, 2007 14:23
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Soul Kontakt
Soul Kontakt
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Posted : Aug 20, 2007 15:15
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Quote:
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On 2007-08-20 07:55, full_on wrote:
I couldn't care less if some Live Act "makes for a nice spectacle". I go to parties to listen to trippy music not to spectacles. If I wanted spectacles I'd go to some good rock concert or to watch the symphony orchestra or philharmonic orchestra, whatever you call it.
This topic is not to discuss if Live Acts are really live or not, there are already 5 hundred zillion topics about this.
But one interesting thing is that if Live Acts are fake then it suggests that they are popular just because of the marketing effect they have.
Respect!
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I also agree to this i also go to a party to listen to music i used to care about big live acts but now i actually avoid the big names because it's always a lot of nice words and then the music is not even psychedelic! All i care about is what comes out of the speakers that makes me dance! no matter if live or Dj set we are all there for the music not for a show!
Boom :)
SOUL KONTAKT - 12th Planet new track on www.myspace.com/soulkontakt
Soul Kontakt Live for demo or booking email soulkontakt@hotmail.com
www.soulkontakt.com |
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spinalpuppet
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Posted : Aug 20, 2007 15:47
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I remember reading that at the real early 90s raves the dj played behind a curtain, the artists would release under a ton of different project names all in an attempt to not have the rock star spectacle of the guy on stage that everyone is centered on.
While that is extreme its a shame more of that isn't still around. |
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J
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Aug 20, 2007 19:13
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I agree in parts.
You're right Napo. But I think that's a consequence of the music industry today. There are many softwares and all sorts of crap to make a Live PA and easier thing.
The marketing issues are also one of the most important reasons for the amount of shitty Live Acts we see today.
Everyone performs "Live".
And people like to say things as:
"I just saw a Live from XXX... It was killargh!!"
And they can't even distinguish a Live, from a "Live".
But a nice and well performed Live Act has it's place.
Like mk47 said: Son Kite, OOOD, Big Wigs (brilliant, imo), X-Dream, Star Sounds Orchestra, etc. These people created and incredible energy, performing LIVE.
But one thing is for sure: Usually, a DJ set can get much more Psychedelic and interesting, that a Live Act. No doubt about that.
Regards! |
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full_on
IsraTrance Team
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Posted : Aug 20, 2007 22:47
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Please understand I have nothing against a Live Act itself, and I enjoyed many of them at many parties.
What I don't like is the current party model in which the line up is packed with many short one hour Live Acts, jeopardizing the music's flow, not because this way provide a better psychedelic environment (it is just the opposite), but because this way it can attract more clueless paying public (read Trolls and Ogres).
Everyone complains about the quality of the public at psyparties going down... Guess why? Because this advertised model attracts people to the parties without any kind of selection, in fact there is an "inversion of the selected values" in which people more vulnerable to the marketing and with less discernment regarding what are the important things to make a good psyparty (like the people, location, sound system, good deco, etc) are attracted to the party only because of the huge line up and because there will be "Skol or Antarctica beer" (two of the top Brazilian Beers, believe me or not some of the Brazilian public decide which party they'll attend based on which beer is going to be sold).
And what I like even less is that DJ Sets are being left at the corner, now the few DJs allowed to play do it for only one and half hour, which is ridiculous and only happens to leave space in the line up for the Beautiful People (read Big Famous Commercial Acts).
And what is really sad is to see people comparing parties by their Line Ups, like the childish "mine is bigger than yours", and spreading this sort of distorted mentality.
People at amazing small localities with great vibe and unity are now feeling they would have more if they had big international acts on their line ups, this is a consequence of the extensive advertising brainwash of the big party organizers which profit from this party model (read big commercial parties).
So this topic is for us to discuss these thoughts and an alert for the people to turn on their spam filters and don't be fooled by the propaganda, think about it and make your own decision, specially if you're involved in making parties.
Respect!
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...Be gentle with the earth...
...Dance like nobody's watching...
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...I don't mind not going to Heaven, as long as they've got Coffee in Hell... |
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J
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Aug 20, 2007 23:46
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Now I see you point.
Check this out, as an example. Just saw it on Soundshop.com.br
23:00 GABRIEL MACHADO
00:30 220V LIVE
01:30 ONYKS
03:00 VISUAL PARADOX LIVE
04:00 SYSTEM NIPEL LIVE
05:00 INTERACTIVE LIVE
06:00 RINKADINK LIVE
07:00 TRISTAN LIVE
08:00 BIZZARE CONTACT LIVE
09:00 SESTO SENTO LIVE
10:00 SHANE GOBI
11:30 ZEN MECHANICS LIVE
12:30 SHAMAMIX
14:00 JOHN ACQUAVIVA
16:00 EMOK
17:30 FREQ LIVE
Good example right? 
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full_on
IsraTrance Team
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Posted : Aug 21, 2007 00:11
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Exactly. Every weekend at Brazil there's like 2 or 3 parties with this kind of aberration.
Most of these artists have at least 2 full length albums out so they could easily do a 2 hours+ Live.
And for the DJs I'm sure Shane Gobi (one of the best DJs on his style, which was voted as the best DJ in the whole psy genre here at the Isratrance Poll a couple of years ago) could easily play for at least 6 hours+, not to mention he owns Alchemy Records, having access to all released stuff and probably to any unreleased track he wants.
IMO a line up packed like that just reduce the quality of the party. System Nipel playing his melodic stuff at 4:00am? Give me a break.
And do you think they added progressive acts in the end just because they're open minded? No fuc%ing way, this is a well established recipe which is being followed by all major party promoters for more than an year now to attract even more public to the party.
And the new trend is to make "day parties", which is perfect for $$ cause the public is smaller at night and they can save money from the night decoration.
Respect!
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...Be gentle with the earth...
...Dance like nobody's watching...
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...I don't mind not going to Heaven, as long as they've got Coffee in Hell... |
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Anak
Anakoluth
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Posted : Aug 21, 2007 01:38
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T.D.R
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Aug 21, 2007 06:09
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I second that, no need in such never ending line-ups imo: Too many djs means more money you have to spend on djs, it means because you have to pay to so many djs you will pay each of them less money. It also means each dj will ask for his amount of freebies, so less people will pay for the party - meaning less profit.
"From bitter searching of the heart
We Rise,
To play a greater part"
(Leonard Cohen) |
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cacofonix
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
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Posted : Aug 21, 2007 21:06
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just another example : when eskimo played in blore... supposedly a live set which was advertised which pulled in alot of crowd. The gig was soo lame coz all tat the crowd experienced is watching eskimo dance full on at the console playing something which seemed like a pre-recorded set on his laptop. So all he had to do is press play...fiddle with the mixer and dance even more than wat the crowd cud.
Not tat am saying this happens in live acts everywhere. Have seen some good ones too. But some of them do mislead the crowd.
www.vantaravichitra.com
http://soundcloud.com/cacofonix11 |
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