Yellow Warrior
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Jan 9, 2007 20:15
Great site, Really nice music and some super ideas man!! Thanks for sharing Tom!!
I'm still light years away from performing live but i enjoyed the video thoroughly!!
Good Luck!!!
Rather than feeling that you're about to have the rug pulled from under you, let me teach you how to dance on a flying carpet
soulfood
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Jan 9, 2007 21:28
Quote:
On 2007-01-09 16:44, Sound Surgeon wrote:
I believe you have great live sets. But i think its almost imposiible to make REAL psytrance LIVE and on stage, its too complicated.
That's sort of true, but the case is only going to improve as technology develops and it's a good idea to jump in early before it all becomes far too much to learn . It still offers far more interaction than a dj set anyways!
Big thumbs up to Tom... I'm inspired
TrippyJohnny
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Posted : Jan 9, 2007 21:37
For sure a nice viceo.. Great idea and effort. It was very interesting to watch.
But I am one of those who probably is so old school that I still see the term live as musicians playing together real time. I still don't see this a live in the true sense. It's for sure a huge improvement for the "click the mouse and playback begin. Now let's jump around on the stage like a monkey" peformances.
One more thing I have to say is that there's nothing more boing than one man on a stage. No matter the energy it just do not cut it in my world of entertainment and what I expect of a live perfromance. That's why I rather have a talented DJ spin at a party so people stop being aware of a overrated "stage show" and instead gets deep into the music the way this kind of music originally was intended... Music without a face
I rather see "live acts" at real concerts or festivals where the focus is more on the entertainment part than on the "trance" mode.
cosm
Cosm
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Posted : Jan 10, 2007 01:21
Thankyou once again for all the comments, some interestinig discussion in here.
Colin OOOD,
Glad you enjoyed them and learnt some stuff! The controlls I had mapped... right Ill just fire a list at you.
Scene 1 of my Padkontrol had 4 pads to start the four seperate kick loops, 8 pads assigned to start 8 different bass loops, one pad for a crash symbol, two pads for different buildup/sweep sounds (one dropping straight into the next bar, and one leaving a 1/4 beat gap before the next bar kicks in) and the final pad triggering a scene which triggers a collection of loops all together, so that when I want the main drop to..err...drop... they all start at the same time (instead of me hitting 8 or so buttons to get everything running).
Scene 2 had 4 pads assigned to the 4 melodic stabs, 4 pads assigned to other various melodic loops (the one I showed in the video I called "tech loop"), and the other 8 were assigned midi note values c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 a4 b4 and c5. I use these pads to trigger one hit samples loaded up in the impulse plugin which comes standard with live. These 8 pads are also velocity sensitive, with the velocity assigned to the cutoff and amplitude decay on each sample... so If I loaded up a set of bongo drums for example, the harder i hit the pad the crisper the sound. I also have a delay with a high pass filter on this channel so that when i get a really crisp hit on the pads, the highs delay off.
The thrid scene has all 16 pads assigned to different starting points of the sample which I explain as trick number 2 in my video.
The fourth is set up to arm/disarm record and play loops which I explain in my third trick. I have four channels set up for this.
Those are all the scenes I use on my pad kontrol for that particular tune.
For the effects I have the following attatched to midi knobs on my xstation
MDE-X: an on/off button, Manual Voice Control knob and Formant knob. I also have three other knobs which define which vowel sounds i want to sweep through when i move the manual voice control knob (eeaaaaoooiiiouuuu).
Psp Nitro: None, only an off/on button. I change all the parameters of this with my mouse.
Grain Delay: I have a knob on the feedback, time and wet/dry. This I keep at 0% dry, and turn it up slightly when i want it to kick in. This effect is quite easy to over do so I like being able to turn it up slowly rather than just turning it on.
Dblue Glitch: an on/off button... once again I control the parameters of this plugin with my mouse.
The keys C-4 thought to C-3 trigger the percussion loops (with the exception of F-4, because my F key is broken )
The 9 Sliders control the Volume of the channels
Sub Bass
Bass
Kick
Perc1
Perc2
synth1
Synth2
Fx1
Fx2
Each slider's maximum value is set so none of my channels go above -3 in volume.
The buttons above each of those sliders triggers the "stop" command on each channel.
All my other knobs and buttons are assigned to things which I did not talk about in my video, like parameters of other effects, cuttoff filters on each channel etc...
Over my master out I run the Ozone mastering plugin, very finely tweaked to how I like it. I play with this when I find out what kind of system I will be performing on. I really like playing with the spatial stuff, expecially when its a well tuned quad system.
As for transitions between tracks, it depends on the event. I change this quite often and am still finding what I am most comfortable with. What I used to do, and still do sometimes is layer out my kicks/percussion stuff out in the arrangment view, and figure out a smooth transition before hand. Then I can use the loop points to keep a section going, then turn off looping once I want to move to the next tune. Just to clarify, yes sometimes I pre arrange various elements of my set so I can take the main synth loops etc off on rediculous tangets and not have to keep up with the percussion stuff.
Usually, its all once large live set, with every single loop and sample loaded neatly into the session view... when i am at the end of a tune I will slowly bring in loops from the other tune while fading out/cutting off the remaining loops from the previous tune. I have hundreds of scenes in my current live set.
Sometimes I just load up individual sets and have silence, but this is usually only for my chill sets.
Hows that!?
Feel free to ask any more questions. I will try my best to answer them (its a boring day at work).
-Tom
Yidam
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Posted : Jan 10, 2007 02:10
hmmm Ishwara, if you're looking at this from that angle wouldn't the same apply to someone who was practicing playing the rock guitar before playing on stage or reading from a manuscript?
Sound Surgeon
Crater / Mish-kah
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Posted : Jan 10, 2007 02:18
Quote:
On 2007-01-10 01:55, Ishwara wrote:
Thanks for that - layering is all I have ever done - wondered if you had a different trick - but creating scenes between is really all I know - turn off, turn on etc... Break down then up into...
Many thanks for the time and effort you put into this - am sure it will help many people
Talking about a large live set with each session neatly arranged though - is a bit contradictory to the thread title no? What you're describing is a Live set that has taken a long time to program rather than a LIVE 'person on a synth' 'person on a bass guitar' 'person on drums' etc...
Are you saying your perception of LIVE is pre-programming enough stuff to press and go 'yay - look at me, if I press this button stuff happens'????
And then keep pressing triggers?
And cut-offs?
What's LIVE about that? Nothing you hadn't religiously practiced before you went out infront of a crowd and then emulated
That's just a posh DJ set
Yet you're calling bullshit when what you yourself are doing is just triggering events
We need to define LIVE - because you have proved that what you think is LIVE isn't
Am sure your promo videos will get you a DJ set - but not a LIVE set
btw - am not being horrible, I danced away to ur set at BOOM - am being subjective about wtf LIVE is
So the only LIVE performance to your opinion is when a mad-capper-rapper is shootin some freestyle crap on the stage?
Pink Floyd Live, bah! they wrote the notes before, they practiced lots of time THATS not reaaal LIVE!
Guns n' Roses LIVE?! come on give me a break, they made those tunes years ago.
Live performance is something that you build and make on a PERFORMANCE. whether its something you made before (im sure the Floyds played Money or Comfortably Numb a few times on stage) or wrote back home (same here) and make a different or similar with tweaks here and there + improvisations on stage. thats live!
djs dont do that mostly, they do other stuff
rich
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Posted : Jan 10, 2007 02:25
Ok, one thing that needs to be established if you're going to argue what live is, is the instruments you're using, the sounds they produce and how they're produced. Right? So in the old fashioned realm of live instruments, you blow into a flute, lets say, with your fingers pressed over certain holes and an expected note comes out. Is that so different than pressing a button and a wiggly sound comes out in the speakers? or a button that sets off a loop of sounds? It's the action of the musician triggering sounds in real time that defines a live performance, isn't it? Instruments are merely instruments, whether hollow wood or wires and silicone.
Yidam
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Posted : Jan 10, 2007 02:56
You're not wrong in what you say Ishwar, its just that with that kind of definition you'll be eliminating the composer from the picture. IMO making psytrance is closer the composing classical music than it is to a live jazz band totally winging it. The latter of course is an experience in itself but I wouldn't expect that from any producer out there.
As for playing an instrument vs. playing with knobs. Thats an analog vs. digital arguement. I know lots of instrumentalists scoff MIDI drum sets and the likes.
The closest you could get to what you're talking about would be a band like Highlight Tribe or Wild Marmalade. Good music but I find it lacking the spanking clean, alien precision, multi layered psychedelic sounds that you can find in composed and rendered music.
Respect to Cosm for making it an interactive experience but it's pretty pointless if you're trying to create new neverbefore heard groundbreaking music. That's not going to happen on stage but in a studio. This seems to be the closest you can get keeping it all synched up like psy usually is.
piko_bianko
Oxya
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Posted : Jan 10, 2007 04:02
1. Cosm great video, great perception, great video, great tutorial. Props there mate.
2. Ishwara, without wanting to be assaulting or offensive, Cosm's point is not to get approved as a Live-Act but to criticise those who don't even have connected the device that are supposed to tweak
3. "We need to define LIVE - because you have proved that what you think is LIVE isn't"
3a. On any genre of music, LIVE is defined diffirently. i mean, in electronic genres like psy/d'n'b/breakbeat, if you have a 15-second 'full of stuff running' break-in; how a man alone is possible to handle 4 cut-offs, 3 fade-in's/out's 2 glitching fx, instant 1/16th cuts, fx on's and off's with only two hands simultaneously ? (some of the above cannot get accurate -if not impossible- even if there were 40 ppl in a group)
3b. On the other hand, would it be more LIVE if all DAWs and plugins were open on diffirent platforms + h/w and synced altogether (and again.. one man?) maybe if the artist wrote every single note and automation during his live performance ?
so repeating myself: On any genre of music, LIVE is defined diffirently. i believe Cosm found his way to perform the most LIVE (or almost most) he could perform in his genre.
4. bonus definition; LIVE is when once the track started if do you nothing, nothing happens to the track; stays all the same. on the contrary in the other 'LIVE' once track begins, either you tweak (or pretend to) or not the track IS already build and arranged, WILL continue and eventually end without asking you any permission.
5. Again there's this Kid Beyond guy
he's live 100% alright, BUT in his genre
..or maybe when he gets looped stops being LIVE ?
6. Not satisfied? then suggest/present your way to Cosm (and all rest artists) to be LIVE.
..again i do not tend to be offensive. if i forgot anything i'll post again.
piko.
extreme
soulfood
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Posted : Jan 10, 2007 04:31
Ok to all you bubble bursters out there. It's fucking live! It is being created in front of you there and now. It's live! Shut up! Your mother aint live! Hell no one dissed Hendrix for not carving his guitar out of one piece of wood their and then!
Now though seriously folks. You may not have an orchestra in front of you with fireworks and inflatables, but the element of improvisation to a live audience in the right hands can be far more effective than rehearsed pre-planned music. And you know what else? All you have to do is start playing that there keyboard and haha! fuck you! live! Also manipulating audio there and now is a live art form, hell all psy trance is really is filters.
Krell
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Jan 10, 2007 05:19
Quote:
On 2007-01-09 22:31, Ishwara wrote:
Get rid of the STAGES, stop putting people on a pedestal
When you DJ its an advantage if you can actually see more than the 100 people just in front of you.
A good measure of a parties potential is to see how many people lurk in the background and stuff.
Stages have other uses than just being pedestals.
Other than that, Im all with you and TrippyJohnny here. Its not about the person performing, but the music being played.
This is great, means ugly people like me get a chance to be part of the creative aspect of the show, and not only bimbos looking like 600 dollar whores ;-)
)
Hell no one dissed Hendrix for not carving his guitar out of one piece of wood their and then!
stuff Cosm