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Marketing points/counter-points

Surrender
IsraTrance Team

Started Topics :  506
Posts :  5388
Posted : Dec 4, 2003 06:37
This issue has been bothering me for quite some time... since its pretty complex i have many dillemas with this since some issues are in real conflict to each other:

1. is psy-trance a poorly marketed genre of music/life?

-1. is psy trance not meant to be marketed at all? aren't its fundemental elements against the whole marketing world in the first place? is this culture actually the exact opposite of the mainstream culture we live in?

2. if we go by the logic of (1) and conclude that it is marketed poorly and begin to see better marketing: then the listening audience will grow, become bigger and more vast, with more and more participants at parties and homes.

-2. does a larger audience mean that it is better? does increase in quantity = increase in quality? if the music reaches more people, does that mean they need to listen to it?

3. the starting point of artists/labels today should be money, status, sales and promotion.

-3. are we losing the point of this culture by shifting focus from the core ideas that are completly in contra to this issue? if this music is made just to sell, havent we all lost something very essential from this scene then?



These questions pop into my head and i find myself liking and wishing to uphold the (-1), (-2) and (-3) counterpoints much more then (1), (2), (3). i do see how they exist and sometimes i forget and fall to the consumer soceity that we all live in, especially since i live in the USA, the heart of capitalism...

here in the US bigger=better according to the majority. there is no doubt that most americans will eat MacDonalds simply since its brilliantly marketed in the most aggressive manner and not because the beef or buns or lettuce are good, because they arent. quality is being redefined, quality here = financially backed up, or aggressively marketed and shoved in one's face. to stay on the food topic, (sorry i am a chef) people in europe for example have been known to drive for hours to eat certain foods in small resturants (that cannot make huge profits no matter what) since they are high in quality: there is a type of sheep that grazes in the cliffs near the sea somewhere in ireland that gets a certain flavor to its meat because it eats a grass that has sea salt in it, therefore making its meat taste delicious. this is a better example of quality in my opinion, no marketing shoved in anyone's face, just quality for those who know about it and wish to pursue it.

i've been to 1000+ people parties that i have seen many people that had no clue why they are there... i have seen 50 people parties that were intimate and amazing because everyone was on the same page, not for the flashy coats or clothing, not for the status, not for the show... just for the spirit, just for the love, nothing fake.

i wonder what you think about these issues. maybe there are more points to be touched upon and even more counterpoints.

          "On the other hand, you have different fingers."
http://myspace.com/gadimon
ZeRo
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  39
Posts :  802
Posted : Dec 4, 2003 07:34
ok, america is an amazing place because it appears to be this place filled with blood thirsty capitalists, vacant value systems, general quantity over quality mentality.

but...

because of that and its tradition of freedom and rebellion there will always be a counterpoint to this culture, a counterculture.

right now trance in my opinion is thriving in america for this reason. trance is a manifestation of rebellion and freedom. quality, spirituality, substance.

if it were marketed in the way you suggested it may reach more ppl but it would die, it would cease to be trance as we know it. it would become a mcdonalds, a britney spears and a factory made commercial scene cannot, by definition uphold the values that trance is. It would not be trance. it would be pop(ular) music. quality would not go up, only accessibility.

so lets try to maintain our flower, sustain or environment and keep fighting the power. we can only exist with our opposite(mainstream culture) but we must be careful and not turn from ying to yang.

this is my opinion.           ein chadash tachat hashemesh. there is nothing new under the sun. --kohelet.
Apocalypse Now
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  62
Posts :  933
Posted : Dec 4, 2003 09:18
I have personally always hoped that Psytrance would be marketed a little better so that more people could be brought into the scene to make it a bit more profitable and accessible.
After trying to do some of this marketing myself for a while (forcing everyone I know to listen to Psytrance) I realized that this music just isn't for everyone and I've become contempt listening to it by myself at home and in my car and occasionaly playing some lighter stuff for people who listen to electronic music already and are intoxicated enough to not notice the difference.

I think that there is no doubt that a big part of the pretentiousness and arrogance that most psytrancers have (let's admit it, most of us are snobs) stems from the mystique and individuality that this music and scene possesses. I think a lot of us really feel that we are on to something amazing here and we are afraid that if the whole world figures out then a big part of that will be spoiled. There is really only one way to figure that out though.

So to sum things up, I have no clue what my point is but I'm sure it was really smart. Maybe you can figure it out.           Both teams played hard
Surrender
IsraTrance Team

Started Topics :  506
Posts :  5388
Posted : Dec 4, 2003 09:36
Apocalypse, your point remind me of the discussion we had with Samy Guediche about this, are we elitist? are we not? maybe there is truth in it... i dont like to look at it that way, because it makes me feel uncomfortable to state superiority. i'd rather tone it down and claim that we are diffrent people then most, we seek music for its substance, something that as you jsut mentioned, not all people do most of the time, and the only times to get to them is when they are so intoxicated it doesnt matter... well if it doesnt matter, then forget about it... i use to crusade as well, i gave it up in that fashion. i sometimes see interesting people who i think might be receptive to this music, but more so the ideas behind it!           "On the other hand, you have different fingers."
http://myspace.com/gadimon
Apocalypse Now
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  62
Posts :  933
Posted : Dec 4, 2003 09:48
I think the elitist part is that we think this music has some kind of idea behind it. Some tracks probably do but you can really say that it is any deeper then any other genre? Why aren't we all blues or jazz fans? People who listen to IDM and Techno are probably having the same exact discussion on their message boards as well. I think that a lot of people who listen to Trance are into substance, but it isn't the kind you are talking about. That's what makes this music very hard to market, especially in such a conservative place like the States.

and what happened to going to sleep early buddy?
          Both teams played hard
wine drinking trancer


Started Topics :  1
Posts :  34
Posted : Dec 4, 2003 12:17
fuck the elitist crap.. i wouldn't mind a bit if i'd hear this music @ radio and the artists would make 100 x better livin' of it..
Mike A
Subra

Started Topics :  185
Posts :  3954
Posted : Dec 4, 2003 14:51
Quote:

On 2003-12-04 06:37, Surrender wrote:
3. the starting point of artists/labels today should be money, status, sales and promotion.

-3. are we losing the point of this culture by shifting focus from the core ideas that are completly in contra to this issue? if this music is made just to sell, havent we all lost something very essential from this scene then?


Common cut the crap. Making it for money doesn't mean that the music is any worse.
You know what? I make music for money. I didn't release anything yet, but going to soon. Yes, I'm expecting to get paid for it. Does it mean my music is formulated, commercial, whatever? You heard my tracks for youself.
I do it because I like it, other people like it, there is an amount of money in it (although very little), etc.
Surrender
IsraTrance Team

Started Topics :  506
Posts :  5388
Posted : Dec 4, 2003 16:00
Mike, we were talking about people that formulate music in order to sell it, with no heart, or soul in it. This music maybe well maketed, but totally pointless... i never said artist shouldnt be able to make a respectable living out of making the music, as long as its coming from the heart, its fine by me.

listen to some artists our genres, (i dont wanna name names here in our community for the sake of staying on topic) sometimes you get the feeling, and correct me if i'm wrong that its just another track... filler, made just to sell without any other thoughts behind it.

its one thing to make a connection between good things that can react and create something new, its a diffrent thing to just sell people items without thinking if they really need them in the first place.           "On the other hand, you have different fingers."
http://myspace.com/gadimon
Cyzum
Cyzum

Started Topics :  77
Posts :  347
Posted : Dec 4, 2003 16:44
Trance will never become mainstream like 'electronica' did in the late 1990s. Its too aggressive, too involving and too specialized for mass consumption. But, then again - that's probably a good thing.

It is however marketed poorly to people that might become interested in the genre (ravers, clubbers, hippies, etc) - most of them either don't know about it or have a negative stereotype of the psytrance community / musical genre. I work in marketing for a living and have just began starting to change that viewpoint in my hometown. Throwing trance parties, advertising, promotional cds, etc. Realistically I know that it will never be as big as hip hop or anything like that, but it would be nice not to have to drive 4 hours to hear some trance.
Mike A
Subra

Started Topics :  185
Posts :  3954
Posted : Dec 4, 2003 16:46
Formulated music is good. That's why it sells.
traveller
IsraTrance Senior Member

Started Topics :  234
Posts :  3803
Posted : Dec 4, 2003 16:54
ah the whole point of psytrance is that it's formulated ..in a way anyways..           "The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn't have a space program."
- Larry Niven
-Abatwa-
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  42
Posts :  1087
Posted : Dec 4, 2003 17:26
I'm totally with surrender in I also ask myself this question quite often. I dont want to go to a gathering that is in nature with paying 120 euros.(samothraki). I would not want psy scene to go commercial. of course the artists must get something out of their act or cd's as with this contribution, we are saying we like them and pay this much to them, for them to improve the equipment and stuff. Its just that it must also be more equilly distributed. there are some artists that dont get the support they need to, while others gain more than enough.           `Bottomless wonders spring from simple rules, which are repeated without end` Mandelbrot
traveller
IsraTrance Senior Member

Started Topics :  234
Posts :  3803
Posted : Dec 4, 2003 17:46
Quote:

On 2003-12-04 17:26, -Abatwa- wrote:
I dont want to go to a gathering that is in nature with paying 120 euros.(samothraki).




i believe the cheapest tickets were 80€. I for one don't think that's too bad of a price for 2 week camping and all the biggest psytrance names.. but that's just me.. maybe you don't find them worth it..           "The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn't have a space program."
- Larry Niven
Surrender
IsraTrance Team

Started Topics :  506
Posts :  5388
Posted : Dec 4, 2003 17:50
Quote:

On 2003-12-04 16:46, Mike A wrote:
Formulated music is good. That's why it sells.




in an effort to answer that which you wrote, i must first go into what is "good". this is a whole diffrent discussion which may take me pages to write and still not make myself clear... quality is a tough word to explain and define, what is the nature of good, what is best and in which situation.

i will say though Mike, that i think you are taking my points far too literally, this is more a metaphysical debate, for more reference on a the topic of quality try to read "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintainance" by Robert M. Pirsig.


traveller, please lets try to stay on the topic...

          "On the other hand, you have different fingers."
http://myspace.com/gadimon
traveller
IsraTrance Senior Member

Started Topics :  234
Posts :  3803
Posted : Dec 4, 2003 17:57
Quote:

On 2003-12-04 17:26, -Abatwa- wrote:
I would not want psy scene to go commercial. of course the artists must get something out of their act or cd's as with this contribution, we are saying we like them and pay this much to them, for them to improve the equipment and stuff. Its just that it must also be more equilly distributed. there are some artists that dont get the support they need to, while others gain more than enough.




in my opinion that's totally wrong approach. why the hell should we support artists which have like 10 hardcore fans while all the others find their music total carbage?           "The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn't have a space program."
- Larry Niven
Trance Forum » » Forum  Trance - Marketing points/counter-points

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