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Marketing points/counter-points
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-Abatwa-
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
42
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1087
Posted : Dec 4, 2003 18:10
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traveller i wouldnt have given the money if i didnt think it was worth it. but i was able to find the money. not everyone can afford that money. a friend said in hungary festivals a bit shorter then samothraki was about 5 times less than this price. this isnt supposed to be music for the rich. its for sharing and unity. and its not unity if you exclude people.
  `Bottomless wonders spring from simple rules, which are repeated without end` Mandelbrot |
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-Abatwa-
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
42
Posts :
1087
Posted : Dec 4, 2003 18:16
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you dont have to support ones you like? just support the ones you think deserves it. you dont like it, others do.
`Bottomless wonders spring from simple rules, which are repeated without end` Mandelbrot |
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traveller
IsraTrance Senior Member
Started Topics :
234
Posts :
3803
Posted : Dec 4, 2003 18:17
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Quote:
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On 2003-12-04 18:10, -Abatwa- wrote:
traveller i wouldnt have given the money if i didnt think it was worth it. but i was able to find the money. not everyone can afford that money. a friend said in hungary festivals a bit shorter then samothraki was about 5 times less than this price. this isnt supposed to be music for the rich. its for sharing and unity. and its not unity if you exclude people.
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could it also be than hungary is about 5 times cheaper country than greece? i for one don't think that this music is any more for sharing and unity than any other music is.. but that's just me..
"The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn't have a space program."
- Larry Niven |
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Surrender
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
506
Posts :
5388
Posted : Dec 4, 2003 18:24
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excellent point -Abatwa-, as i stated before, this music at its roots and in its soul and core is not about money at all... its not why you come to parties in the first place imho.
one of the greatest thing i found in trance events are "beautiful people" this term doesnt mean what it means in almost any other case... this doesnt mean that the girls are models with minimal clothing or the guys are in tip top shape and look like brad pitt. "beautiful people" are much more then that in our scene, for example the energy that they give to you is real... it is something you can feel and measure internally with your heart, that's beauty...
"On the other hand, you have different fingers."
http://myspace.com/gadimon |
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traveller
Offtopic posts:
28
Posted: Dec 4, 2003
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On 2003-12-04 18:24, Surrender wrote:
one of the greatest thing i found in trance events are "beautiful people" this term doesnt mean what it means in almost any other case... this doesnt mean that the girls are models with minimal clothing or the guys are in tip top shape and look like brad pitt. "beautiful people" are much more then that in our scene, for example the energy that they give to you is real... it is something you can feel and measure internally with your heart, that's beauty...
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if you are talking about hippies who sit in their elitist circles and do lsd and are very rude towards the other people who don't wear tibeatian shirts and have dreaklocks and don't wear skirts..
well uh.. that's all i have to say about that =)
i'm sure pretty much same proportion of nice or as you said "beautiful people" can be found from every single scene..
"The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn't have a space program."
- Larry Niven |
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Drope
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
278
Posted : Dec 4, 2003 19:22
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This went waaay out of topic...
I think MARKETING gotta be discussed also, I work with it, and yet with a completely diferent approach to it than common "america" marketing...
Let´s get to it, marketing as market making.
The marketing to psytrance, as I humblely see it, should not focus on the music, cus than u create the kind of distortions Traveller inpersonate in this forum (I love to disagree with u man!!!), the marketing should be directed to the concepts, so pp wouldn´t be at parties "without knowing why". I do not believe our scene is "as any other", but this was discussed in other threads and I´ll not get in to it.
The marketing we got to make is not about making the scene bigger, but to make it denser... Make every party goer more consciouss of what the hell this scene is all about...
About being Snobs... Well, we are. But in -1 kind of way. I mean, WE ARE THE FREAKS, commonly and usually bashed by the "mainstream" society... So it´s kind of natural that after 10 years being marginalized this pp created their own set of signals to recognize each other. Being rude to those who do not hv the signs is a prehemptive way of defense.
plur |
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nobody_3
Inactive User
Started Topics :
13
Posts :
1177
Posted : Dec 4, 2003 19:28
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What I have a problem with is the idea that all people listening to trance have to be educated about what this scene is "all about". To me this music or scene (what a stupid word) is what the individual person want it to be. Not something pushed down their throats. Why not just let people enjoy themselves and let them decide what to think? 
And please stop thinking that we are so special compared to other groups of people in this world. There's nothing worse than people viewing themselves as "special". |
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traveller
IsraTrance Senior Member
Started Topics :
234
Posts :
3803
Posted : Dec 4, 2003 19:28
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Quote:
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On 2003-12-04 19:22, Drope wrote:
Make every party goer more consciouss of what the hell this scene is all about...
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so what exactly is this scene all about?
"The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn't have a space program."
- Larry Niven |
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Mike A
Subra
Started Topics :
185
Posts :
3954
Posted : Dec 5, 2003 11:54
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It's about music. Music is a luxury just like caviar, vacations, etc. It has to be marketed, commercialized and sold to get successful.
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DiMiTry
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
70
Posts :
2299
Posted : Dec 5, 2003 14:39
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Bigger does not equal better. Usually, it's quite the opposite, and that applies to a few trance artists, as well.
Quantity is the often the opposite of quality. Surrender's point about fine restaurants is well taken. The best music is found far away from Tower Records, MTV, and money. I will take a forest party in Sweden or Oregon over Samothraki any day.
The more popular the scene becomes, the more diluted it will become. Think of what happened to punk, for example, when it went mainstream. Do you really want to see 12-year old girls losing it when GMS gets on stage? Space Tribe clothing line advertised on TV? It already happened to trance once - we know the results. Check PaulOakenfoldSucks.com.
If we didn't support the artists that only a few people like, there would be no psytrance.
Psytrance is a tiny subculture, and that is a blessing. You can come to the party anywhere in the world and feel at home. That's a gift. That's what makes it special.
There's nothing wrong with marketing and promoting the music within the scene. Nothing wrong with getting paid for countless hours of work, even if it's the work you love. You should get paid for making people happy. Happiness is a commodity, nowadays. 
There nothing wrong with the scene growing, organically. But trying to sell it to mainstream consumers, to the big record labels who will take over and tell you what kind of music to write, and what kind of clothes to wear, and will destroy what we know as psytrance - that's suicide.
P.S. Music is not a luxury. Music is a necessity. It's food for the soul. 
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FluoSamsara (Oxygen)
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
84
Posts :
1164
Posted : Dec 5, 2003 15:54
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Sorry guys, but i think this kind of posts are starting to get me a bit sick of this forum...
I must say that the majority of the stuff I've read here for me are just a bunch of CRAP!
And I must say that the majority of you also has no idea of the concept of Marketing.
Surrender, I don't get very well whats your point...
QUOTE:
SUrrender said:
is psy trance not meant to be marketed at all? aren't its fundemental elements against the whole marketing world in the first place? is this culture actually the exact opposite of the mainstream culture we live in?
How would you listen to it otherwise?
And I don't think Psy has any fundamental elements against marketing, if fact, I don't even see any problem with the marketing, marketing is just about finding what the consumer wants and finding products to fit a market, i see no problem with that.
Now, some marketing techniques, are made to convince the consumer to buy things that he actually doesn't need or maybe didn't even want in the first place. Ok, this is wrong, but this doesn't happen in the psy scene.
Artits make music for money? Of course they do!! Its their job!!!It doens't mean they don't love it, it just means that they have the luck to live from what they love, in the end isn't that what we all search in life?To live from what we love?
And Surrender, all that bullshit about the "formula", in order to sell music, sorry man, but thats just wrong to say such thing, and only a person that has no idea how complex it is to make good quality music can make such a statement, you make it sound so easy.
TO reach for a quality sound, it needs a lot lot lot of commitment, a lot of hard work, and a lot of love for what you're doing, you talk like it would be really easy just to get a "formula", and do a killa track, hehe, why don't u try it yourself if it is that easy and needs no feelings? let me know when you do it so I can hear your masterpiece.
Im really tired of all this negative posts, I don't see no problem in psy getting bigger, i don't see no problem in full on, i don't see no problem in some ppl wanting money so that they can keep on doing what they love. I see a big problem in many current trace listeners, who just know how to complain about stuff instead of spending their time triyng to do something positive.
Peace
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traveller
IsraTrance Senior Member
Started Topics :
234
Posts :
3803
Posted : Dec 5, 2003 16:02
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come to think of it..
wouldn't suprise me a bit if some full on acts had this default rack that opens everytime they start their software.
it could have the typical full on bassline + beat combo..
so it would like be the skeleton the artists build their new killer on..
add a few drug samples, a few melodies.. tweak the bassline a little... turn a few knobs.. voila a new tune!
"The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn't have a space program."
- Larry Niven |
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Surrender
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
506
Posts :
5388
Posted : Dec 5, 2003 16:26
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FluoSamsara,
my questions were made to make you think, please dont take them so literally. when i say something like: psy trance not meant to be marketed at all, then i mean in the aggressive mainstream manner in which other music is marketed in our society. you would be right to say that if there was no marketing, i wouldnt hear any of it... even isratrance is marketing, psyshop, and so on. the main diffrence is a metaphysical outlook on where you come from and in which manner.
regarding your comments on the artists making music for money, i agree as well. i never wrote that this should not be the case, as long as it comes from the heart and designed to evoke something from listeners. i agree with you that this is what they do, just like a plumber must ask money for fixing a leaking faucet, but again comes in the quality factor, which is hard to define. a plumber either does his job or not, to say the same about an artist is much tougher... since its not a black and white type of thing, and sometimes at first glance it might look done and full, but in actuality it is hollow and empty from inside. again this is more of a metaphyical discussion, so the flow and responses out of me concetrate on that.
regarding formula... i never said any of the stuff you wrote i said, maybe you have confused me with a diffrent poster. i commented again on the heart issue, on how important it is to make something that you are so moved by its a piece of art and not something that you say, as an artist: "good enough". of course i know how complex it is, you should here the utter crap i tried to produce when i stepped up to cubase. but i think thats why i'm not an artist, because i dont have that artistic touch... to say that everything an artist does is pure gold just because it may be difficult to me, you or others, is... well - irresponsible.
last - i dont know why you think this is a negative thread? i never said that its not ok for psy to get bigger, i merely questioned the way inwhich to do it outloud, in a discussion form. i dont have a problem with full-on it is and always has been my fav sect in psytrance.
i think maybe you should re-read the earlier comments by me and others to see it from a diffrent angle, no one is complaining here at any point, we are just discussing theoretical things that run in our heads outloud. and if you are tired as you say, try going to sleep and then come and read again.
Peace
"On the other hand, you have different fingers."
http://myspace.com/gadimon |
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FluoSamsara (Oxygen)
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
84
Posts :
1164
Posted : Dec 5, 2003 17:10
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I only said it was negative because I see so many ppl complaining about tiny details and making it a big problem, and that pisses me of.
Ok, maybe my opinion was put in slightly extreme manner, that was a spontaneous reacton i had due to the many negative threads I've been reading latelly...appologies for that...
Yes, I can understand what you mean...I really have no problems that trance becomes a mainstream event, as long as all the ppl that make it be so big really know what it is and what it stands for. Otherwise it will just become something different, and yes, I see a chance of that happening, wich for me is definetelly not a positive thing...(since the diference is not for the better...)
About mentioning the full-on, that was just related to the negative stuff I said I've been reading lately, nothing to do with this post in particular or with you.
Anyway, thank you for your words, they made me think a bit and see that this post in particular maybe wasn't so negative after all...hehehe
I just want trance to be at its best, and I think that what trance can become depends much more on the listeners than on the artists or labels, the listeners are the ones that make it a "movement".
Peace
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FluoSamsara (Oxygen)
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
84
Posts :
1164
Posted : Dec 5, 2003 17:20
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On 2003-12-05 16:02, traveller wrote:
come to think of it..
wouldn't suprise me a bit if some full on acts had this default rack that opens everytime they start their software.
it could have the typical full on bassline + beat combo..
so it would like be the skeleton the artists build their new killer on..
add a few drug samples, a few melodies.. tweak the bassline a little... turn a few knobs.. voila a new tune!
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Yes, some artists use the same patch (kick, baseline adustments, drum packs, etc) in more than one track, and in many albums (and in quite some good ones), its easy to see that all the album was done in the same patch...
But that patch didn't spawned from the air...they had to do them in the first place...
And it takes art to make each track unique and powerfull
(now that we talk about this, have you noticed that Rastaliens ALWAYS use the same synth presets...? In my opinion it makes it really boring and never new....they always have the same lead!)
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