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live sets/ dj sets debate
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offthenutboom
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jan 10, 2005 19:17
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To jhanna,
First of all I do not see anywhere in the promotion "Etnica Live." The only person who said anything about false advertisement was Surrender. Also it is clearly advertised only one person from the actual group will be here. So from that side things are so clear... No false advertisement, just personal differences.
About lives, I got to see Koxbox, IM, Mindfield, Thomas Penton and Luis Duran, and a group from iboga live! The real deal. Great performances from real musicians with great outcome. I also Moosy Moody, Hatteria and Astral Projections live running laptops and trully inspiring as a showcase of music including live elements to the set. I have also seen DJ sets with live fx units and edited tracks, which added a true live feeling to the set.
IMHO, from my point of view, as long as there is preparation, originality, innovation & freshness to any performance, whether playing the music or performing it, it will make no difference for me. I just take it for the experience and the enviroment. The goal is to inspire, express oneself and to create with the tools available.
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paradigm
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jan 11, 2005 00:51
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Jhana , what makes Sosets' statement a "word of Ignorance" ?
I totally agree with her here, and it takes more skill to to craft a great set and work a crowd as a dj, that it does to push play on a lap top.
Most people dont know the difference between a real live set and a faked one? Do you? Do you belevie thatInfected Mushroom or Astral Projection jumping around behind their giant mixing board (thats not even plugged in) and pantomiming a "live set" all the while just pushing play on a dat recorder
is live?
Or howbout most of the 9/10ths or so called "live" sets that all they involve is a lap top and oxygen 8?
Not that im saying there arent good lives out there, because there certainly are,and those ones are deffinately superior acts that can not be touched by any dj. However more often than not they are more dissapointing than the djs that open for or follow them.
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Psycosmo
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Jan 11, 2005 04:34
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Offtheboom: >>>IMHO, from my point of view, as long as there is preparation, originality, innovation & freshness to any performance, whether playing the music or performing it, it will make no difference for me. I just take it for the experience and the enviroment. The goal is to inspire, express oneself and to create with the tools available.
<<<<<
Couldn't say it better myself.
Paradigm: >>Most people dont know the difference between a real live set and a faked one? Do you? <<<
Honestly, no. Having never tried anything like that I have know way of knowing. But it seems believable to me that faked or half faked live sets happen sometimes. If people would focus on the sound and not get so hung up on a set being live, then maybe promotors would be more direct about what was in store. Details like what equipment would be used are always welcome. Not all of us know enough to be able to tell by looking what the producer is doing in a live set but that doesnt mean we wouldnt be happy to know!
Therefore, I say just tell me what Im going to hear, who is going to be playing, what they are going to play, and I'll go and let my ears, feet and soul be the judge. Maybe some day Ill even catch on the the finer points of these things. Never say never.
Peace Out All |
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jhanna
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Jan 12, 2005 08:16
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off the nuttbottom: if im not wrong, etnica consists of two guys, so if only one is coming i think it is unethical to advertise it like that; as i said before , i now nothing about the scene and im not trying to dicredit anyone. But would u advertise U2 if only the edge is playing (djing) ? (just to say anything). i dont think so
paradigm: i really dont agree with soset here,because she is saying something that in my mind is not correct. saying that a dj can offer more to a live act, is to me (pardon me) bullshit
theres is a lot of work behind these people creating the tracks we dance to, without them, the djs are nothing... and besides de posibility to improvise over a prerecorded track is to me much more innovative than just mixing the tracks u like. its more musical, instead of just technical , like a dj is. and that improvising can be done quite well with a laptop and a midi keyboard. Have u even tried that... i bet u havent, because if u did and made the people dance to it u wouldnt even be saying this, that is why i call it ignorance. simply to speak without having any experience..
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paradigm
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jan 12, 2005 11:40
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Jhana I can reference you to many producers, that would rather dj their own music, than play it live.
Im not by any means saying a dj is better or more inovative than a producer. They are the ones with the imagination to create what we are playing and dancing to.
However from a performance point of view, unless its the real deal,(ie a kick ass live ala Son Kite or something similiar) id rather not see some guy just pointing and clicking his mouse to make, no correction,.... just play his music. To me thats not inspirational, thats just boring.
I see a dj as more versatile,as they can read the room, and change the music accordingly. A live set cant do that. A live set is normally pre-rehearsed, and compiled and loaded into a program to be played at the event.Unless its really live ,which doesnt happen very often.
A good dj is both technical in the fact of being able to mix well, and inventive in being able create a mood, setting and story all in one.
Sadly though dj's like that are as rare as good lives
I have my opinion which has been formed over many years of electronic music, both psychedelic and other. You have yours and am more than entilted to it. This is simply a case of agreeing to disagree, however, dont assume someone ignorant, be it me or Soset or anyone else based upon what your preferences are, or even your own experiances, they are afterall your own, and not ours
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jhanna
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Jan 12, 2005 15:51
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yeah ure right. i just always like to see at least one live set in a party. if theres not i always feel that theres something missing.
peace. |
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offthenutboom
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jan 12, 2005 20:53
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Jhanna
If you send me a flyer with Maurizio Etnicanet I might do not know if this guy is from Etnica or just a DJ. IMHO I think it is well referenced and the semantics are clear... Now we could go for hours on minute details.
I do believe artists and DJs go hand in hand. Without DJs the music would not spread like wildfire.
It is funny, there are Djs growing on trees right now, but good Djs are very hard to find. It is all a matter of presentation and talent. I do not think producing or lives are better than DJing... they are two very different things. Different skills are involved, so don't take it for granted. This is not a second rated artist. Djs are artists themselves and might remix tracks on the fly and make something new out of it. They provide not just one vision, but an eclectic journey. You can take the best live and the best DJ together and both will take you exactly to the same place 
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Surrender
IsraTrance Team
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Posted : Jan 12, 2005 21:10
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Quote:
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On 2005-01-12 20:53, offthenutboom wrote:
Djs are artists themselves and might remix tracks on the fly and make something new out of it.
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if this is what you think dj's do on the decks - dude you got no idea what youre talking about... dj's at best connect seamlessly 2 track endings (how can they possibly do more with 2 cd-j's???) there is no remixing being done. if u think the effects of zip, whoosh, and pitchbending is remixing, you have another thing to learn about performances. bottom line is dj's are cheaper for alladin then lives and thats why he brings them... my problem was and is the price for such a thing, other organizations have and do provide much more for the same $, alladin chooses not to.
 "On the other hand, you have different fingers."
http://myspace.com/gadimon |
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offthenutboom
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jan 12, 2005 22:07
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Do you DJ Surrender? Because i have been doing it for the past 15 years, and there are tons of things you can do with two or even 3 CDjs if pitch accuracy allows. You add a Korg KAOS Pad or just basic effects in the pioneer mixer and transform tracks @ will. For me there are times some tracks are average by themselves, but if you mix them together and right on it becomes an stoppable ball of energy.
Since production is so crisp, by adjusting frequencies you can add the effect to almost specific patterns. Make sure you mix tracks that harmonize ... Granted you have to be great and granted very few ppl could be mind blowin' like this. It takes a lot of hard work to be kick ass and offer a show in whatever you do... but that is DJing. So stay off the blending seamlessly and lets take it to another level and absolutely psychedelic.
Lives are another animal all together, from getting your audio tracks on Cubase with a few live elements on top or actually have full control of your synths and mixer and play the track you made Even play and inprovise on top. Different knowledge, preparation and skills.
I do not know it all, but also I am not ignorant about the processes and the complexity of it all.
BOM! |
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Surrender
IsraTrance Team
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Posted : Jan 12, 2005 22:19
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well im telling you from experience about alladin, there is nothing more then 2cdj 100's and a 2-3 channel mixer (never saw/heard of anything of anything in the quality realm of even the djm500, where you can make loops).
"On the other hand, you have different fingers."
http://myspace.com/gadimon |
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offthenutboom
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jan 12, 2005 23:22
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Even with 2 cdj100s and three channel mixer (with EQ + Gain I hope) you can do pretty wicked things Your only boundary is skill, knowledge and imagination. It is all about creativity.
BOM! |
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jhanna
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Jan 13, 2005 06:40
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try ableton live a lap and controller... u wont underestimate these power anymore, how u think rinkadink and pixel do their songs and acts? would u rather have dj doe ??? i dont |
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offthenutboom
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jan 13, 2005 18:32
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I have Ableton live and an Oxygen 8, I produce music also. I know the potential it has. Actually I think Ableton live is more of a DJ tool.
I am just having a hard time with you guys saying DJs are performers of a lower class, who you take for granted... Where I give equal respect to any who can blow my mind, whatever tools he/she is using. Bring an orchestra, bring a load of synths, instruments, 2 cdjs and a mixer, a bucket and two sticks, whatever... just blow my mind.
I am personally not going down the road of putting down ppl for their choice of tools for self expression. Sorry
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soset
Started Topics :
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83
Posted : Jan 14, 2005 02:38
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offthenutboom-"... Where I give equal respect to any who can blow my mind, whatever tools he/she is using. Bring an orchestra, bring a load of synths, instruments, 2 cdjs and a mixer, a bucket and two sticks, whatever... just blow my mind"
Exactly!!!
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jhanna
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Jan 14, 2005 03:47
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Quote:
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On 2005-01-14 02:38, soset wrote:
offthenutboom-"... Where I give equal respect to any who can blow my mind, whatever tools he/she is using. Bring an orchestra, bring a load of synths, instruments, 2 cdjs and a mixer, a bucket and two sticks, whatever... just blow my mind"
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yeahh right i wanna see yall tripping on acid listening to one guy with a bucket and an acoustic guitarr. hhehehe, ure funny..
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