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Isratrance is being run by big brother...
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Yidam
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
144
Posts :
3171
Posted : Jul 9, 2007 01:36
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Really bothers me to see the ruthless moderation that exists on this forum. Intelligent moderation is required ... but it seems that mods here are just another bunch of robots. None of them add to any discussion, but act like the gatekeepers to every topic. This forum is headed towards one that is purely based on promotion and that is very sad : soon to be "tranceaddicts". It's a a waste of the dynamic personalities and ideas that did exist on this forum... some still do but numbers are only going down!
This topic is not about complaints but a search for vibe that existed here. My suggestion: next generation moderators need to be hired. Those with enthusiasm, time, a sense of humor and sarcasm, and personal goals for this forum and their section.
PS: Yes, I'm pissed off that the Tibetan Flag request topic was locked. If you guys bothered to follow mk47s posts you'd know what he means.
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Pavel
Troll
Started Topics :
312
Posts :
8646
Posted : Jul 9, 2007 07:56
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Some people should understand that this place is owned by a group of people and that they set up a set of guidelines, if you fail to follow them than maybe you should search for other places. It has been proven many many times that topics about politics never lead to a healthy discussion here so please, stay on the topic, which is music.
 Everyone in the world is doing something without me |
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mk47
Inactive User
Started Topics :
118
Posts :
4444
Posted : Jul 9, 2007 10:40
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hello .. ! eh ? what`d i post .. what`d i mean .. wich post ? 
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full_on
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
279
Posts :
5475
Posted : Jul 9, 2007 13:52
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Pavel for moderator! 
Yidam, I understand you may be frustrated by some topic locking or something, and I accept your constructive criticism and believe it is positive, this is a way to improve things here.
I agree we need more moderators, lack of man power is one of our main problems, in fact we're hiring them, DJ Buju (DJ & Artists Section and UK Section) and Infected_fairy (Greece Section) were the latest addition to the Mod's staff (less than one month ago). Before them icefairy and kajola joined the team still in 2007.
Some users recently turned down our moderating proposals, which are totally understandable since moderating requires time and work; it is more demanding than it appears to be. One of the problems is to find people we can trust and that are active users. We're working on this issue as we can, but still we're only humans (usually very busy humans). We’re also looking for qualified people on the computational field.
About being "the gatekeepers to every topic", this is a complicate issue. Let's say I participate and give my honest opinion in some polemic topic. In these topics things usually get out of hand, people start to fight and I must delete a lot of posts and eventually lock the topic. If I'm involved in the discussion people will start to think I'm using my admin powers to personal purposes. What to do?
Sarcasm has two sides, because a lot of people do not get it, understand it to be aggressive and reply to this supposed aggression leading the topic to a lockdown. Please remember most users do not have English as their native language which just add to the complexity of this issue.
My greatest fight here is to avoid excessive promotion. It makes me sad to see lots of people posting only promotional stuff. To avoid this we're trying to restrict promotion to their respective sections, but it is not easy, most country sections looks like promotional sections, and also some other interesting sections like the DJ & Artists have some of this problem. The CD Review Section is under my constant moderation to avoid further degradation.
Artists and labels contact me daily just for promotional issues or to keep their image clean. Let me say it:
We have the policy that users must stand behind their words, so don't ask me to delete your posts, just think before posting.
Also I admit I won't make new moderators just to have to remove their status a week later, we need reliable people we can trust and that are aware that we have guidelines and that as moderators they'll have to think before posting.
However I disagree that "mods don't add anything to discussion" or that we are "just robots". This generalization is not true.
We have guidelines and they won't change. We have lack of people willing to work for free to keep the vibe alive. A lot of people here seem to be experts in all genres of psytrance, they can go through 10+ pages of heated discussions, but when it comes to write an article for the site or something they just don't.
The moderation these days is smoother, we try to let things evolve their own way (like the LSD consumers thread on the Equipment and music creation section), but sometimes it has a high cost (like the Twisted thread on the UK Section). I'm personally dialoguing with "problematic users" and trying to come to an agreement instead of just banning people. This demands time and energy.
Criticism and suggestions for improvement are always welcome, as long as they are stated in an educated way and if possible in a positive way. If anyone read anything aggressive on the forum please send me a PM, you all can help (I’m very thankful to the users who are already doing that).We’re trying to keep the vibe alive, but it is not as easy as it seems.
Respect!
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...Be gentle with the earth...
...Dance like nobody's watching...
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...I don't mind not going to Heaven, as long as they've got Coffee in Hell... |
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karnaf
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
60
Posts :
1745
Posted : Jul 9, 2007 20:22
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Wise words from full_on. Totally agree.
@Yidam - think about this - there are currently over 5000 active users - that is, users who have logged in the forum in the past month. You have to run some sort of guideline in order to keep things going, and yes, sometimes that means stepping on someone's toes.
There are about 50 moderators and supermoderators who work very hard to keep this place going. It's a frustrating, tiring and demanding job, and in many case, the people who do it are dissed rather than be praised.
Yes, there are cases that mods are wrong. Hell, anyone out there (except for me  ) is wrong occasionally. But when you have a few hundreds of posts to go through daily occasional errors are acceptable.
I haven't been around here too much lately, and am not planning on getting too active again, but I can say that after so many years of being and working hard for this site and forum, I appreciate each person willing to contribute, and praise all mods and supermods for the work they do here. Without them, this place could not exist.
Your suggestion for "a new generation of moderators" is nice, and is always on the go (you don't just wake up one day and replace all mods at once, you switch spots and bring in fresh people all the time). The problem is that there are too many people out there who say that something should be done but are unwilling to help themselves or commit to the cause.
A final note, if I may - the moderators are not working for you (or against you), but are here to work with you in order to make this place better. Listen to them, help them, support them, and if needed, explain to them in private when you disagree with them. We are all human (except for Arafela...).
and with a final fluff
there goes the karnaf 
Please REMOVE my cellphone number from any SMS spam list you may have. Thanks.
http://www.savetherhino.org |
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Yidam
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
144
Posts :
3171
Posted : Jul 9, 2007 21:31
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My apologies for the way this discussion began. I realize that the issue with the locked topic was independent and shouldn't have triggered this off. However I'm really glad to read your reply full_on. Goes to show that mods aren't machines Once in a while it is nice to know the motive behind ones actions instead of being pointed to a page with a bunch of rules: too much like real politics.
You guys ARE doing a great job. As moderators its pretty much close to perfect. and with 5000+ users its phenomenal that 50 keep it all under control.
What I was trying for is something more than control. More in terms of direction. Something to counter the fact that promotions will take over each section as the size of this forum grows.
"a new generation of moderators" is a bit much. Would be good to see some of the new mods being active though. full_on is the only one I see who is all over the place... and has been getting in peoples faces because of that. Doesn't sound very fair.
@Pavel. You sound like you've given up on what this place can be.(or were u just quoting full_on? )
I've never seen it as someones property and thats what keeps me here. This forum is about more than just music. Music itself is not just music. Nos, politics, violence ... I can find all 3 in psytrance today.
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Zman
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
14
Posts :
3784
Posted : Jul 11, 2007 11:49
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Yidam for president!! of West Lafayette hehe |
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mk47
Inactive User
Started Topics :
118
Posts :
4444
Posted : Jul 11, 2007 11:53
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Quote:
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On 2007-07-09 01:36, Yidam wrote:
If you guys bothered to follow mk47s posts you'd know what he means.
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i still didnt get that .. care to explain ?
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phazed
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
26
Posts :
1642
Posted : Jul 11, 2007 13:29
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^ me neither... im bored...
-.-. .... --- --- ... . / .-.. --- ...- . |
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faxinadu
Faxi Nadu / Elmooht
Started Topics :
282
Posts :
3394
Posted : Jul 11, 2007 14:06
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Yidam
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
144
Posts :
3171
Posted : Jul 11, 2007 18:11
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Quote:
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On 2007-07-11 11:53, mk47 wrote:
Quote:
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On 2007-07-09 01:36, Yidam wrote:
If you guys bothered to follow mk47s posts you'd know what he means.
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i still didnt get that .. care to explain ?
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"never ! .. is province of china -_- !!"
looked like this statement was enough to get the Tibetan flag thread locked for talking politics.
Anyway, this topic shouldn't be a result of the same.
I'm bored too so I'm going listen to some killa music, start a topic in the promo section on why its killaa and then spam everyone on my msn list to go respond to my killaaa post.
enjoy!
kilaaaa!
http://forum.isratrance.com/viewtopic.php/topic/92737/forum/20/start/15 |
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coSmiIic r080t0n3
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
72
Posts :
2340
Posted : Jul 12, 2007 12:26
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Quote:
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On 2007-07-09 07:56, Pavel wrote:
Some people should understand that this place is owned by a group of people and that they set up a set of guidelines, if you fail to follow them than maybe you should search for other places. It has been proven many many times that topics about politics never lead to a healthy discussion here so please, stay on the topic, which is music.
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Pavel 4 govener 
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It's time to move on to the next step in the psychedelic revolution. We've reached a certain point, but we're not moving any more.
Ken Kesey |
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full_on
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
279
Posts :
5475
Posted : Jul 13, 2007 16:33
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Just to update you all, we have 3 new additions to the Mods' staff:
T.D.R and It Peyote both will help moderating the Trance Section.
Pavel will help moderating the CD Reviews Section.
We also have some other interesting projects moving slowly (but moving forward).
Respect!
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...Be gentle with the earth...
...Dance like nobody's watching...
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...I don't mind not going to Heaven, as long as they've got Coffee in Hell... |
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Anak
Anakoluth
Started Topics :
108
Posts :
2395
Posted : Jul 14, 2007 09:51
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Yidam, you're right that music is not just music. the guidelines, however, do not prohibit music-related discussions about politics. in fact, we've had such discussions in the trance section a few times already.
my personal view on this (which happens to be the forum's view too): we should concentrate on things we have in common, not on things in which our opinions differ from each other. ie, if we had a discussion about political leftwing/rightwing, this would turn into fights sooner or later. it would even generate "hate" between several users. instead of feeling drawn to certain users because we share their thoughts on music, we would start disliking each other for opinions on matters that are not related to music. i know this from real life: even my very best friends do have some opinions on certain issues that i will never ever be able to understand, so i refrain from discussing it with them, because when i think about it too much, those minor issues would slide in between our friendships, and that would be rather sad. so i concentrate on things that bounds me emotionally nearer to my friends, instead on things that builds a ditch between us.
btw, i have been criticized for being such a sarcastic cynic all the time, and it's legitimate. so you have at least one mod that has quite a big ear for sarcasm. and there are more, trust me.
Anakoluth A Pebble in Your Eardrum's Shoe since 2001!
http://www.myspace.com/anakoluth
http://www.ektoplazm.com/profiles/anakoluth/
http://cronomi.com |
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sure_smoke_alot
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
45
Posts :
6874
Posted : Jul 14, 2007 12:58
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Quote:
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On 2007-07-13 16:33, full_on wrote:
We also have some other interesting projects moving slowly (but moving forward).
Respect!
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does that include the much awaited 'offtopic section' as well???
the problem with valuing art is, till u dont understand it, it's worthless but wen u do understand it, it's priceless!! |
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