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Trance Forum ╗ ╗ Forum  Trance - homogeneity, identity politics, and the closing of the trance mind
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homogeneity, identity politics, and the closing of the trance mind

rich
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  103
Posts :  2184
Posted : Mar 4, 2008 01:25
One of the problem with excessive homogeneity in any music is that it doesn't attract new artists who are looking for a free area to express in, with little or no boundaries.







Login
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  65
Posts :  1704
Posted : Mar 4, 2008 01:28
As others have said beofre the sense of "art" in psy trance has been lost in a high degree.

The public has grown a lot and this has bring people who just want to party and dont care for the culture. So it has become commercial and without substance other than make profits.

What I am most concerned about is the qualkity of the parties. They have stopped to been psychedelic at all: no decoration, KIDS using drugs with no care or respect for it selfs, money laundering from the mafia financing parties, violence, etc.

Good promters are retirng from party production (here in mexico), so all that is left are commercial parties whose only commitment is money.

I think this scene need people who is compromised with ART and this subculture, people being profesional. And in a second stage people who would like to promote the culture and help to provide information to new comers and build a real movement
connecting everyone involved.

I think the biggest need is to inform the public outhere, the one who goes to partys to teach them what is real psychedelia.


aXis
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  116
Posts :  2562
Posted : Mar 4, 2008 08:17
@ aaron , Ocelot - Bro , all u said is true n we've been feeling it too since last cpl of years . Let me give u my take on it -

Year is 2001 , Not many ppl know abt Electronic music in general. Few do, So when u had parties it wud actually be a MEETING point of ppl wit almost no knowlege abt wat the future of that party scene holds . This was Bliss . The catalyst of the enlightenment as u call it. The State of mind .

Now back to 2008 , Every1 knows abt it , there are a million producers like me , like u . None of us are special now , None of us are unique. Every1 got their own take on psychedelics. Every1 is doin wat thy feel like ( dogon was right here ) Those who can do it are doing it , anywhich way they can.
Point being conflicts of interests and $$$ comes into play as soon as u have too many ppl tryin to get in on the cake . all djs wanna play the new killazz, all producers want the best slots, all organisers want the best line up , crowd wants a perfect party !

Lol . one of the pillars in psychedelia in general is to be and let be .

And new age psychedelic addicts are groupies and shun others who dont listen to this genre . So there u go - Recipe for our own sweet Doom .

I say Accept, and move on . i know from this part of the world . Psy is finished. i dont care if ppl write a ton of replies to this , But hey , Accept it
Kormaduerg


Started Topics :  0
Posts :  380
Posted : Mar 4, 2008 09:12





in our part of the world
it just got started all over ag@in


festiv@ls are happening
good -new l@bels n lots of new vibe being influxed this side ...

many russian friends are coming over
along with the japanese and the europeans too


Future looks goOD


bOM frm Bombay/India

bolentah







Jedi_knight
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  14
Posts :  620
Posted : Mar 4, 2008 14:14
I think that the problem is bigger than the closing of the trance mind.
It's the closing of the HUMAN mind generaly...
Moral values and spirituality are fading away as the capitalism is getting bigger and stronger.
When the money comes in the house everything else is leaving from the window....

Are we better in this atomic age than when we were in the stone age?
I don't think so.....

What have we done to prevent this situation?
Nothing.....
If we continue not doing nothing the situation will become worst.

After all ,music is the soundtrack of our lives.
The artists are human beings.
Music can not get better as long as our lives are getting worst and meaningless.

Have you seen any party for the kids that are dying in Africa or in any other place in the world?
Have you seen any party for the poor and the homeless?
Does any serious artist play for free for such a concept?
I would like to know........
          ---RealPsyLifeForRealPsyPeople---
Xamanist
Xamanist

Started Topics :  49
Posts :  938
Posted : Mar 4, 2008 14:47
I'm with you, Ocelot, WORD

but i can see it changing already.
psy is not dead. Most of the psy parties might be, but not psy trance and psy culture.
I see young and old bored and growingly insatisfied with the whole scene... as patience expires, decisions are made and people are starting to look elsewhere and to make it diferently... still a lot to go, but the music and the vibe wil be there again, soon...

i believe in it because i see old and new looking for it

Boom!
          SÚrgio Xamanist
facebook.com/xamanist
soundcloud.com/xamanist
Xamanist
Xamanist

Started Topics :  49
Posts :  938
Posted : Mar 4, 2008 14:48
ahhhH!!!

and take the money out of the equation and everything will be naturally better (ideas, parties, choices, smiles)

my 2 cents           SÚrgio Xamanist
facebook.com/xamanist
soundcloud.com/xamanist
ocelot
ocelot

Started Topics :  94
Posts :  783
Posted : Mar 4, 2008 19:00
Quote:

On 2008-03-02 05:03, mk47 wrote:
Quote:

On 2008-03-01 19:23:02, ocelot wrote:
by the way=- since when did we ditch the spiritual "raising consciousness" story ?



99 ?




totally!
exactly!
you NAILED the date!!!!!
ocelot
ocelot

Started Topics :  94
Posts :  783
Posted : Mar 4, 2008 19:41
Quote:

On 2008-03-02 07:00, Basilisk wrote:
I agree with the general assessment that psytrance culture has been facing a broad downturn in overall creativity since about 2004. Great music is still coming out but I've heard from so many artists how difficult it is to get released when their style doesn't fit into one of the established categories. I think a lot of this can be blamed on the raw economics of the psytrance industry. Commercial CD manufacturers usually deal in a minimum of 1,000 units (sometimes 500). Put these numbers in perspective: CD sales figures reported on Isratrance were not much better than 200, 300, or sometimes 1,000--with the notable exception of a few of the bigger, more established labels and the odd break-out hit cracking into the thousands. But that's quite rare.

Now, we've gone over the issue of market saturation here on Isratrance many times--essentially, there are many more labels and artists seeking an increasingly smaller audience share, and this only exacerbates the issue.

With these economic conditions in place, conservative/risk-averse behaviour is a more sustainable strategy than experimentation and creative exploration. Labels that take risks often falter and then fold. Labels that play it safe survive to build an audience and corner a niche. Have a look at some of the more long-lived and prolific labels in our scene: Neurobiotic, 3D Vision, Utopia, Hom-Mega, Com.Pact, etc. You probably know exactly what to expect from each of these. They're consistent, not overly creative.

What can be done about this situation? Well, if the problem ultimately boils down to profit margins and the bottom line... how about removing money as a necessary part of the equation? I'm not saying that psytrance needs to move toward a cashless economy--far from it. Commerce will always have a place in the underground. Over the last few years I have been tirelessly advocating the adoption of a viable alternative to the commercial distribution system. And, as some of you know, I think substantial progress is being made on this front.

My appreciation of psychedelic trance covers an immense spectrum of sound. I can't think of many other DJs playing everything from Psykovsky to La Baaz--in a single set no less. There aren't any labels that cover this kind of ground. It would be financial suicide to even try it. I think Moonsun tried it--and faithful Isratrance readers know how that turned out. This is why Psylife and Halu Beats are separate labels. Commercial labels rely on brand recognition to some extent. I don't think that netlabels need to specialize nearly as much... simply because the standards of success are vastly different. When you are selling music you are looking at sales numbers and critical response. When you are giving music away... well, the main thing is simply reaching people. And this you can do much easier than when you are attempting to sell plastic. 50,000 releases have been downloaded from my site in the last month and a half. I wonder how many CDs have been sold in that same time period?



my problem with this is twofold-
i dont think downloads replace cd releases completely but rather supplement them
and secondly how to provide some profit model for the artist and the minimum middlemen involved in a release. it can be different than todays way- and hence helpful for musical evolution- without completely removing some profit model from the equation.
i agree with the rhetoric of copier-pirates to the extent that they say the prices of cd's are TOO high generally, and difficult to obtain (they should be sold at the parties hello!) and that their pricing model doesnt take into account the economy of the place...
but i would like to see SOME compensation for music made and delivered to people- not enough comes from live gigs for all artists concerned to say that this is compensation enough. many artists make tracks and release but dont get to tour much or get booked much...
generally the artist isnt getting that much anyway- but something is better than nothing...
ocelot
ocelot

Started Topics :  94
Posts :  783
Posted : Mar 4, 2008 19:50
Quote:

On 2008-03-02 14:31, Kormaduerg wrote:



hi ocelot ,
cant clearly get ur POV across from what u have mentioned ))


which labels are releasing such compilations ? i mean A degree labels only if ur talking so , the ones who are releasing good twisted psychedelc music or the one's which are more oriented towards releasing daytime music with lots of melodies and happy moments rather than the earlier mentioned type of labels who intend to release much more of twisted mind trip dance moods


lately there has been a lot of variety in the compilations released or by that i mean compilations released from good labels such as Tantrumm , Insomnia , Drop-out ,Phreex Network , Might Quinn , Organic Alchemy , Underground sound productions n some more ..

they are surely taking a next step towards a new evolution in psychedelic music


or is it just that u want people to start producing more of oldschool stuff like koxbox n astral projection as mentioned..( full respect to them )

i mean it was great in that time when koxbox , astral projection used to be THE thing . cant always stay the same


this way u will also find many people who have made a transition from that type of psychedelic music ( i.e koxbox era )to what it is now known as twisted music or ( night music n dark n all those terms)


so if it fits well in some places , surely there is something right about it , because there r many people who enjoy this music , all around the globe from brazil to russia


bOM









while you mention valid exceptions and certainly present me with a different way of looking at things, i think generally that you find labels that release either
"fullon" "proggy" or "dark" (a terrible name for about 20,000 styles of trance not full on or progressive)
i think you are correct in saying many that many so-called "dark" labels actually release quite eclectic music. however this is not generally the case.

on most parties you can find a consistent sound for each stage or party that stays relatively the same all party.
you are not likely to hear fullon at a dark party or vice versa... excuse the horrible terms again... damn i hate them... but much of the music FITS the category! is trying to be copy-paste Dark or FullOn etc...

i think someone- sorry forgot the reference- was correct in saying "we" choose this based on parties and our experiences and the options presented.

if people only conceive of psychedelic trance as being SPLIT musics, it will never unite again.

my goal is to unite the trancers as one again.
with the right musics woven into the right times.
and skip the extremely cheesy or commercial music altogether- and im sorry guys- skip the extreme noise dark stuff too... those two extremes can go have their separate parties- but the rest of us who want to unite the psychedelic universe can join together again as one under the banner of psychedelic... like it was in the goa days:) just lots of interesting different sounds all woven together... without the cheese, and not just noise...


ocelot
ocelot

Started Topics :  94
Posts :  783
Posted : Mar 4, 2008 19:56
Quote:

On 2008-03-03 18:33, papay wrote:
Quote:

On 2008-03-01 19:23:02, ocelot wrote:
if you buy a compilation its about 8-10 tracks of more or less the same exact music. same kind of track structure and same kinds of sounds...


yep and one of the tracks is made by artist that calls himself ocelot





if this goes further than my reply just pm me.

what you say may happen- someone pesters me over and over again until i get them the "right" track for their compilation. and out of the thousands (yes thousands) of tracks of ALL styles of electronic music i have made in the last 15 years- yes i will try to find them something that fits their bill..
i am LAMENTING this trend. i am not happy with this and would like to be able to release my more advanced and interesting musics. slowly slowly its coming around...
im trying to hasten it
ocelot
ocelot

Started Topics :  94
Posts :  783
Posted : Mar 4, 2008 19:59
Quote:

On 2008-03-03 18:52, papay wrote:
Quote:

On 2008-03-03 18:41, Mad Purple State wrote:
Quote:

On 2008-03-03 18:33, papay wrote:
Quote:

On 2008-03-01 19:23:02, ocelot wrote:
if you buy a compilation its about 8-10 tracks of more or less the same exact music. same kind of track structure and same kinds of sounds...


yep and one of the tracks is made by artist that calls himself ocelot





LOL... HIGHLY disagree...

If you see Ocelots 4 albums... not even ONE albums is similar to the other... hez always evolving to a new style...

If you see... not ONE person would object ocelot starting this topic is because when it comes to innovating music... hez a winner.




it s your opinion and i respect that but still i dont see no justification for him to bash somebody else when he s as quilty as the rest


enough blaa blaa i go to listen some bootsy collins at least he got musical talent more than all the psy trance producers combined



hey - like i said - i object to the pressure to conform.

you are part of society as well so...
as am i.

i think there is hope for change
i am trying to push that a bit. call it my ulterior motive uplift uplift
ocelot
ocelot

Started Topics :  94
Posts :  783
Posted : Mar 4, 2008 20:05
Quote:

On 2008-03-04 14:14, Jedi_knight wrote:
I think that the problem is bigger than the closing of the trance mind.
It's the closing of the HUMAN mind generaly...
Moral values and spirituality are fading away as the capitalism is getting bigger and stronger.
When the money comes in the house everything else is leaving from the window....

Are we better in this atomic age than when we were in the stone age?
I don't think so.....

What have we done to prevent this situation?
Nothing.....
If we continue not doing nothing the situation will become worst.

After all ,music is the soundtrack of our lives.
The artists are human beings.
Music can not get better as long as our lives are getting worst and meaningless.

Have you seen any party for the kids that are dying in Africa or in any other place in the world?
Have you seen any party for the poor and the homeless?
Does any serious artist play for free for such a concept?
I would like to know........




well there IS earthdance but ermmm yeah you have a point and its not about just whether an artist can give a weekend or two to that its about organizers, etc...

this is a WHOLE other can of worms i think- i recommend you make a NEW TOPIC called something like "what is trance doing to help the world?" and i will be happy to post on it...

generally the charity options the entertainment industry is involved in are symbolic and try to guide the general society awareness in that direction - like liveaid etc...

i would gladly post on your new topic- probably something like "why dont we generally live the alternative lifestyle we could with community, lower eco footprint, etc... much more than starving people at play. its about influencing politicians and the machines that created that poverty in the first place...we must try..." but actually i dont know what to say until that thread starts...

papay


Started Topics :  6
Posts :  213
Posted : Mar 4, 2008 20:40
[quote]
On 2008-03-04 19:56, ocelot wrote:
Quote:

i am not happy with this and would like to be able to release my more advanced and interesting musics. slowly slowly its coming around...
im trying to hasten it

aa ok i didn t know that you make other kind a music(O_=) did you played those sounds when you were in finland i missed that party?...in the end there is music for every time and place you just have to find it...this is one of thing i have noticed that dj s these days don t do anymore the art of digging like they use to do 4 example in the age of first hip hop this leads to a situation that everybody plays the same music and it s utterly boring to the max,i give 100x times more respect to a dj which can play any type of music and which is not predictable like moust of trance stuff these days.


but still i can t complain i like more funk than any sub genre of electronic music and there is lot s of good stuff you just has to know where to put the shovel and start digging(O_=)
Pavel
Troll

Started Topics :  311
Posts :  8629
Posted : Mar 4, 2008 20:46
Somebody mentioned that lack of spirituality here. Well that's just your opinion. I'm sure some people turned on by mantras and other religious mumbo jumbo I personally find it annoying at best. I pretend to dig deeper beyond the obvious and get the picture inside my brain beyond the usual cliches. For me music has a big part of life and my god is inside the music between the notes.

Quote:

On 2008-03-03 18:33, papay wrote:
Quote:

On 2008-03-01 19:23:02, ocelot wrote:
if you buy a compilation its about 8-10 tracks of more or less the same exact music. same kind of track structure and same kinds of sounds...


yep and one of the tracks is made by artist that calls himself ocelot



Totally disagree. While I usually get a small ear tumor when I hear music in Ocelot's BPM and intensity range his material is usually few levels above all the other.
          Everyone in the world is doing something without me
Trance Forum ╗ ╗ Forum  Trance - homogeneity, identity politics, and the closing of the trance mind
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