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gms on isratrance now 10,000 euro reward offered
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nobody_3
Inactive User
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Posted : Nov 4, 2003 15:55
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I checked your video with the "extreme live" and where does it for one second prove that you played it live? heck all i see is some people on stage standing infront of some keyboards... Everyone can do that and I have seen it many times too....
I do not doubt that you actually play some parts of the music in your shows by hand and it's very cool and even far more than many other artists do... but to call it extreme live is in my opinion to take it too far... I hear things in the track playing that are not done live - far from!... just take the bassline... there's no way anyone played that live! sorry but I am not convinced  |
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tHuJoN
Freakulizer / Khainz
Started Topics :
115
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932
Posted : Nov 4, 2003 15:59
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here's my opinion.....
Maybe u guys remember me.... i played "Live" at the scarabeus before GMS ...i add some sounds with the nordlead....and did some automations ....also not 100%Live....but how to do real live as a one man act ?...
i've seen all live acts at the scarabäus ....and here's my opinion....
GMS .... they used different channels out of the motu to add sounds....and they played with the Nordlead.....that was live how i saw....
Zorba....there it was the same i think.... i was realy tired at this time.... but the sounds was realy good ...
then 1200 Mics.....
Riktam & Banzi i think did the same like they did as Zorba and GMS....
but Raja and Chicago played in the wrong moments (wrong timing)........and i dind't hear what they add to the act.......
I wasn't fuct or anything else ..... i just beleve what i've seen and what i heard and not what a read....
hugs
Simon
 www.myspace.com/freakulizer
www.facebook.com/freakulizer
www.myspace.com/khainzmusic
http://www.facebook.com/khainzmusic |
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Mike A
Subra
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Posted : Nov 4, 2003 16:06
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Kristian, you can't actually expect everything to be played 100% live.
As a performer, don't you think that actually playing the bassline or kickdrum or whatever would be extremely boring, to the player? Add the fact that there may be errors - and those things has to be 100% precise.
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nobody_3
Inactive User
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1177
Posted : Nov 4, 2003 16:09
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Quote:
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On 2003-11-04 16:00, nectarios wrote:
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On 2003-11-04 15:47, Elysium Project wrote:
I know some consider it as "live" nectarios.. It's just not considered "live" in my opinion. I am not saying that the bands in our scene are wrong but I do think it's wrong to call it "live". People on the dancefloor many times really believe that they pay for a band that play it live - meaning that they actually play with their hands.... Not many do that and it's to decieve people by saying that it's live.... Ask any person on the dancefloor and I am sure most will be very surpriced to find out that the band are NOT playing their music live!
And if you got to get technical then it's in it's simpel term still "playback"!
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People on the dancefloor that have the slightest idea about how this music is made in the first place, know when a band is playing live (i.e. sending tracks into the FX processors, sequencing synths...etc) and when they are simply playing back every single part of the tune from the hard drive.
People that have no idea whatsoever about how this music is being made, should just keep their mouth shut and "get their coat" if they do not like it.
If GMS (or anyone else for that matter) are sequencing 3 synths multitimbral synths (more than one different "sounds" coming out simultaneously from the same synth, for people that do understand the technical stuff), that have something like 4 different outs (3x4=12 channels on the desk), with 3 effects processors coming back in the desk inputs instead of effect returns (i.e. 3x2=6 channels on the desk) and use 8 outs from a soundcard, that is a total of 26 channels to mixed on stage.
You can be very creative mixing 26 channels on stage, and you can come up with a mix that will sound very different from the original.
Peace out.
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Firstly I have to say that it's quite arrogant to say that "People that have no idea whatsoever about how this music is being made, should just keep their mouth shut and "get their coat" if they do not like it"
Remember that they pay to see the artists "live" and without them the artists would not have a crowd to play for! It's not their fault that most organisers promote bands as fully live ec. ect.
So to tell them to "get their coat" is plain rude my friend and a lack of respect for all the people that truely are the Kings and Queens of this scene by being at the parties weekend after weekend supporting the artists by actually paying them to play!
And btw I was not at all refering to GMS when I started the question about playing live! I was commenting someone elses post! I don't think GMS play live. I am sure they play semi-live though
Again it's an interpretation of the term "live"... I just believe that the promoters and artists should call it by it's real name "semi-live".... this way no one will feel robbed at the parties! |
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nobody_3
Inactive User
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1177
Posted : Nov 4, 2003 16:12
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On 2003-11-04 16:06, Mike A wrote:
Kristian, you can't actually expect everything to be played 100% live.
As a performer, don't you think that actually playing the bassline or kickdrum or whatever would be extremely boring, to the player? Add the fact that there may be errors - and those things has to be 100% precise.
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Hi Mike
I never said that I expect anyone to play 100% live.... I can't do that myself so why should I expect it from someone else?
And of course there have to be some pre-recorded elements in our music such as you rightly say - the kick ect..
I just feel it's deliberately rubbing people's pockets at parties when bands and promoters claim it's live! They should call it by it's real name... I am sure people would still go to the parties and have an equal good time.... Just not feeling cheated! |
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sabazz
Started Topics :
0
Posts :
8
Posted : Nov 4, 2003 16:17
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I agree with you Elysium Project..
most of this pseudo "live"-acts just press the play button of their sequencer software an then ..
actors at work...
sorry, but every medium-experienced dj has much more to do than this acts..
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traveller
IsraTrance Senior Member
Started Topics :
234
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3803
Posted : Nov 4, 2003 16:19
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Shpongle did live with 7 men band in Japan..
bassist, guitarist, drummer, percussionist, flutist, cellist, singer, and keyboard..
that's pretty live if you ask me..
now that's ofcourse only my guess how their band was.. but well..
this is SO  anyways
and gms guys.. i'm still waitin' for your reply..
"The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn't have a space program."
- Larry Niven |
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nobody_3
Inactive User
Started Topics :
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1177
Posted : Nov 4, 2003 16:32
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Anyway I rather see a good DJ performing than see a "liveact"... It's does not contribute to the original idea of a party... To let the flow continue! But of course some DJ's also have a hard time letting the flow go
I have always liked the idea of festivals where it's more of a concert than a party... This is in my opinion the right way to experience bands... Not in some party in a club or a one night stander forest party! It just do too much of a cut in the party in my opinion and we all know that most budgets are way too small to enable the bands to do something truely interesting on stage except standing behind their rented keyboards looking busy
This is also why so many artists play as Dj's... to promote themselves without actually having to perform "live".... There's simply too little money connected with parties for the artists to be able to put on a both visual and musically interesting show. I miss more liveacts such as good old Eat Static who really did put on a spetacular show eventhough they also never came close to play live - I remember seeing 2 DAT's hidden on stage when they performed live in Copenhagen. But at least they knew how to surprice people... All of us artists in this scene could learn from them... I still miss to see these kind of shows on the big festivals where the budgets could make it possible!
Ok enough ranting from me |
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Mike A
Subra
Started Topics :
185
Posts :
3954
Posted : Nov 4, 2003 16:38
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Quote:
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On 2003-11-04 16:12, Elysium Project wrote:
I just feel it's deliberately rubbing people's pockets at parties when bands and promoters claim it's live! They should call it by it's real name... I am sure people would still go to the parties and have an equal good time.... Just not feeling cheated!
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I doubt that there are any party goes who actually expect the acts to play every single note by themselves.
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nobody_3
Inactive User
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13
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1177
Posted : Nov 4, 2003 16:42
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On 2003-11-04 16:38, Mike A wrote:
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On 2003-11-04 16:12, Elysium Project wrote:
I just feel it's deliberately rubbing people's pockets at parties when bands and promoters claim it's live! They should call it by it's real name... I am sure people would still go to the parties and have an equal good time.... Just not feeling cheated!
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I doubt that there are any party goes who actually expect the acts to play every single note by themselves.
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Well Mike try and ask some 17 year old kid on the dancefloor next time and you'll be surpriced (heck ask a 30 year old bloke too - if they still exist in this scene?). Many people belive that when the term "live" is on the flyer then it must be played by hands... Remember that many come from other scenes including the rock scene where most concerts are played 100% by hand (when it involve a set-up in the clasical way - drums, guitars and a bass and maybe a keyboardplayer)
So yes many do think that the artists play everything themselves....
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nobody_3
Inactive User
Started Topics :
13
Posts :
1177
Posted : Nov 4, 2003 16:46
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Quote:
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On 2003-11-04 16:19, traveller wrote:
Shpongle did live with 7 men band in Japan..
bassist, guitarist, drummer, percussionist, flutist, cellist, singer, and keyboard..
that's pretty live if you ask me..
now that's ofcourse only my guess how their band was.. but well..
this is SO anyways
and gms guys.. i'm still waitin' for your reply..
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It's for sure much better than the normal "mannequin dolls" on stage
But again I know Simon use a lot of pre-recorded material... and heck... if he didn't it would not sound good at all
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VertigOA
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
29
Posts :
341
Posted : Nov 4, 2003 17:49
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This is so lame -
We all know that you can't play totally live every note so I dont know why you people are arguing about it, but some acts say they play as live as possible.
Noone expects a total live note for note performance - if you do it means you just dont know about the creation of most psytrance.
As far as Simon all you have to do is go to his site to read how he plays his live set -
"Although I can't speak for other artists, I prefer to take my DR16 hard disk recorder, (well actually I prefer the organiser to hire one, so I don't have to dismantle my studio every time, and get a hernia lugging the sodding thing to the airplane, where i get charged for overweight baggage... only to have my precious studio equipment bashed around by baggage handlers!) But the reality is that I often end up taking my own unit, as no-one can ever seem to find one... Then I wonder why it goes wrong 3 months later! In fact one time, Akai refused to fix it, as it was "full of beer and tobacco...and a 5 pence coin" (and of course the sweat of 2000 ravers!).
Then with the DR16, I have 16 tracks of audio to mix live... so my gigs are more about 'live engineering/mixing' than 'live playing'. Since it is just me on stage, i don't really get time to play anything... although the mixing desk I like to use as an instrument in its own right...
I like this way of working, 'cos if the Kik drum is too quiet, i just turn it up... or add more bass or whatever, so i have full control of the sound. Of course this is an absolute nightmare if the monitoring is bad. For example at Return to the Source in Brixton Academy, they gave me one mono monitor that sounded like a transistor radio... You can imagine what it is like trying to blend all the sounds involved in a tune, along with all their FX when you can't hear a thing!!! But this way of working also allows me to arrange a track live... With 16 tracks I can have complete control over the kik, bass, hats, perc, a load of riffs... Whatever I can fill up the 16 tracks with. Normally I have everything looping on all the tracks, and sometimes one track will contain diffrent riffs, depending where you are in the song... But still sometimes 16 tracks is not quite enough, so i will sync my laptop with midi timecode or midi clock, and use rebirth or something to generate a few more riffs that I can tweak live... But there is so much tweaking to do already, just to mix/engineer the track, that I don't have so much time to tweak the external synths...
Another problem is that I have to load a new project from the Akai quite often, which takes a few seconds... when the machine is under studio conditions... so sometimes I will play a track off DAT while I reload the Akai, change the delay times, set up rebirth etc for the next few tracks... It is not ideal, but when there is just one of you on stage, it is much much harder to do a complete live set. Anyway, this should give you an idea of what i get upto during a live set..."
SON KITE LIVE SET:
"The first live performance was made in the spring of 98’ at a party they promoted themselves and at that time it was a story of bringing the whole studio to make the liveact, which was of course a lot of work. Not wanting to just press play on a DAT player they continued like this and made two more performances but then decided that they had to change to make it more interactive and convenient to bring. After some brainstorming the concept was ready; a 16 channel digital multitrack recorder, two multi effects, a 24 channel mixing console, a pitchable cd player and a dj mixer. But they didn’t want pauses between the tracks and also certain tracks are better played in their original arrangement they decided to play one track live, one track cd, one track live and so on…and the whole thing to be beatmixed by Marcus which makes them avoid the pauses. And most important this equipment is something they’re able to bring everywhere to perform their liveact, without having a private jet.. With this set up they have played numerous events around the world in countries such as Australia, Japan, Mexico, USA and always much appreciated. But always on the quest for something new and different, the liveact has been changed again to improve the liveact even more.
The digital multitrack recorder has been replaced by a laptop running Logic Audio. This gives a much better beatmixing due to the much finer scale of pitching in Logic and most important it gives the possibility to change the tracks in far more ways than before. By dividing the tracks they want to play live into 16 ingredients, loop them in Logic Audio, and then putting them on 16 different channels on an outboard mixing console using effects as they please and most important, arrange the tracks as fit for every occasion.
Another feature with using Logic Audio instead of the multitrack recorder is the ability to use midi tracks. Turning the knobs live on the Nord Lead 2 makes much more feeling then to record the melodies and then play them from the computer. To make the liveset more interesting and to give the show more “live awareness” they are now using Sebastian skills with the violin. On stage he plays with a midiviolin that is connected to a soundbox to be able to use a wide range of different sounds. Nothing can be compared to live instruments since it is an effect for both eyes and ears and for many people the violin is a trademark for the Son Kite live show."
And GMS just explained how they do thier live set -
everyone does it how they do it - there is no ONE WAY to do it.
Live means as live as the artists can get or want to get - not live like a traditional symphony - its an electronic symphony -
no sig |
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Drope
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
278
Posted : Nov 4, 2003 17:52
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I believe the way this thread has taken proves no one has anything personal against Bansi and Riktan... I never really cared much if it´s a live or a good dj set... But now I´ll keep an eye on it... a 10.000 euro eye hahaha...
best luck to all, gotta respect gms... I knew trance through their music... nice atitude EP, the kings and queens... pp forget that sometimes.
as one |
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