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Trance Forum  Forum  South Africa - For Producers, established and up and coming....

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For Producers, established and up and coming....

l337
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  55
Posts :  817
Posted : Jun 6, 2006 16:43
What makes SA Trance SA trance....

or is it a case of all trance is worldwide generic....

when you hear an infected tune or juno reactpr song you can pretty much tell straight away it was made by those producers....

is south african trance a differentiate in its own terms???

i mean could you listen to an SA tune and tell straight away its south african without knowing....

Israeli fullon has a distinct sound....do we have a distinct sound as well??

Have we gone generic?
Caligula
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  12
Posts :  608
Posted : Jun 6, 2006 18:11
no... people from loads of other countried praise the south african sound for being unique and distinctive... i think its perhaps harder to tell when you've been to loads of outdoors and seen so many SA artists that it all kind of blurs into one.

but i reckon we have our own sound just as the israeli producers have theirs.           difficile est non saturam scribere
hummingbird


Started Topics :  6
Posts :  115
Posted : Jun 6, 2006 20:03

I think we've got a very distinctive sound with the harder stuff but am still waiting to hear something really radical from the more melodic producers


          http://soundcloud.com/seasons_end
ApsyDrop
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  28
Posts :  364
Posted : Jun 7, 2006 10:35
I dunno...

I think a lot of SA psytrance producers are trying to emulate a generic international sound.... and have forgotten about that raw psychedelic sound that put SA on the psytrance map....

and I think this is kinda lagging us behind creatively and productively.....

Have a listen to some of the stuff coming out of Europe... not just psytrance.... that stuff is cutting edge..... and not trying to be anything expect pure music.           Mind my mind.
l337
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  55
Posts :  817
Posted : Jun 7, 2006 17:44
Quote:

On 2006-06-07 10:35, ApsyDrop wrote:
I dunno...

I think a lot of SA psytrance producers are trying to emulate a generic international sound.... and have forgotten about that raw psychedelic sound that put SA on the psytrance map....

and I think this is kinda lagging us behind creatively and productively.....

Have a listen to some of the stuff coming out of Europe... not just psytrance.... that stuff is cutting edge..... and not trying to be anything expect pure music.




agreed bru

listening to some of nate's new stuff.....it sounds um...so israeli/euroish...this just for an example tho
hummingbird


Started Topics :  6
Posts :  115
Posted : Jun 7, 2006 20:19

Ah yes ApsyDrop, I think you put the precise wording on the table there...

Generic.

On the one hand one tries to produce to a world standard but on the other hand it is so easy to just end up cracking someone elses great sound and losing da unique flava.

I've got a rather harsh memory from a few years back of writing a whole lot of stuff and being very excited to play it to folk only to be told: "It doesn't sound like what we're playing on the trance floor"

And I'm like... what do you mean?! Sure, if the engineering or production or mastering sucks just say so but what did I do wrong in a previous life that everyone still wants me to play covers !?!?!

So yeah... I'm standing firm on this one and reckon that if there is a lack of unique ZA trance out there it's only cuz producers are paying even five minutes attention to pholk that have cut themselves such a deep kick+16thmononotebassline groove that it will take them two weeks of climbing just to see the trees and sky again.

So I got pissed off and wrote a track with a 3 minute guitar solo. That'll teach 'em!



Nice topic l337!

PLUR and say: "I've got a Djembe. And I know how to use it!"
          http://soundcloud.com/seasons_end
l337
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  55
Posts :  817
Posted : Jun 7, 2006 21:16
I agree with you hummingbird about playing people stuff and having them say....it doesnt sound like this or that....

i remember playing some stuff for some stoner buddies a few years again, and i was told that i didnt have reverses or drops and blah blah blah, and i couldnt use that in that song , cos no one does that,....i found it amusing at the time....

only to mindfuck them with a track of mine a couple of nights later during a smoking session

my girlfriend tells me i make drug music, like music that when you are fucked becomes extra special....

LIke the thing is i dont find SA trance very stimulating or interesting when i am messed, i do howveer find some of the older Goa and a few special tracks which stand out while being on a trip...

on a general level i think trance artists are relying to much on the drugs people are taking to make it psychedelic....instead of making tracks as befuck as possible without someone having to take druks to make it seem totally psy or trippy!

For me SA stuff coming from the Timecode fold, and the newer "night" guys is sounding very generic, its good production, but there are no real gems, like tracks that are absoluterly going to blow any listener away,....

alot of the youngins and newbies are just trying to make tracks liek their israeli hereos and what not, i think to truly get the SA production scene back on track , producers have to step away from the world and what they have made previously and make fresh psycedelic shit, with a distinct flavour!
hummingbird


Started Topics :  6
Posts :  115
Posted : Jun 8, 2006 00:40
Quote:

my girlfriend tells me i make drug music, like music that when you are fucked becomes extra special....



*grin*

There's any other kind of music ?

Or to be more polite... that would probably be better verbalised as music with more than one dimension of consciousness to it. ;-)


Quote:

LIke the thing is i dont find SA trance very stimulating or interesting when i am messed, i do howveer find some of the older Goa and a few special tracks which stand out while being on a trip...



Breaks my heart that most of it is simply not obtainable any more.

I predict: Re-issues of several important albums in the next year or two. Will cause major inspiration and spur massive efforts amongst up and coming producers to locate, rescue and bring back _that_ sound.


Quote:

on a general level i think trance artists are relying to much on the drugs people are taking to make it psychedelic....instead of making tracks as befuck as possible without someone having to take druks to make it seem totally psy or trippy!



Well the economics are simple... spend five nights banging away some squelches and whistles and surf the speed&coke bubble or spend five weeks getting every melody to harmonize, every bassline twisted and all twenty layers to lock with each other...

But worth remembering... something like Shpongle sells a whole lot more copies than all the ZA labels put together have ever sold.


Quote:

For me SA stuff coming from the Timecode fold, and the newer "night" guys is sounding very generic, its good production, but there are no real gems,



Also not my main taste in music but I _do_ take my hat off to Timecode&Nano for breaking us into the international scene... before they came along everything came here but nothing went out.

Any future producer of anything psy is going to be walking down a road that they pretty much built singlehandedly.

Similiar to the situation with the hip-hop crew.. Krushed&Sorted got a lot of aggro for 'selling out' but cuz of them there is now an interest in local talent overseas... some of which has even translated to good will for the trance scene.

Respects.


Quote:

i think to truly get the SA production scene back on track , producers have to step away from the world and what they have made previously and make fresh psycedelic shit, with a distinct flavour!



Amen

PLUR and say: "introduce yourself to a new instrument every year"

          http://soundcloud.com/seasons_end
ApsyDrop
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  28
Posts :  364
Posted : Jun 8, 2006 10:38
I also find it strange that something that was born out of freedom.... creativity.. craziness, love, hate... everything that a human can feel and express....
has been put into such a box.

that's what i can't understand.

I think a lot of the time, some people forget that it's PSYCHEDELIC trance.... "Psychedelic" music.... by definition.... psychedelic music doesn't have to make much sense...... structurally, musically, or mathematically..... all it needs to do is inspire you to drift off into another world and experience all the corners of your own mind...

if it does that... then it's psychedelic music.

i love psychedelic music, guys!

but then again... the music scene is such an ego driven industry.... maybe there's no space to be psychedelic and free anymore.....

          Mind my mind.
ApsyDrop
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  28
Posts :  364
Posted : Jun 8, 2006 10:40
I also find it strange that something that was born out of freedom.... creativity.. craziness, love, hate... everything that a human can feel and express....
has been put into such a box.

that's what i can't understand.

I think a lot of the time, some people forget that it's PSYCHEDELIC trance.... "Psychedelic" music.... by definition.... psychedelic music doesn't have to make much sense...... structurally, musically, or mathematically..... all it needs to do is inspire you to drift off into another world and experience all the corners of your own mind...

if it does that... then it's psychedelic music.

i love psychedelic music, guys!

but then again... the music scene is such an ego driven industry.... maybe there's no space to be psychedelic and free anymore.....

          Mind my mind.
l337
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  55
Posts :  817
Posted : Jun 9, 2006 18:03
Quote:

On 2006-06-08 10:40, ApsyDrop wrote:
I also find it strange that something that was born out of freedom.... creativity.. craziness, love, hate... everything that a human can feel and express....
has been put into such a box.

that's what i can't understand.

I think a lot of the time, some people forget that it's PSYCHEDELIC trance.... "Psychedelic" music.... by definition.... psychedelic music doesn't have to make much sense...... structurally, musically, or mathematically..... all it needs to do is inspire you to drift off into another world and experience all the corners of your own mind...

if it does that... then it's psychedelic music.

i love psychedelic music, guys!

but then again... the music scene is such an ego driven industry.... maybe there's no space to be psychedelic and free anymore.....






nice post...

i was sitting listening to a juno reactor tune the other day, and i suddenly thought how sick that tune would have been in a set...

only to come back to reality that, somthing so trippy like that would never really go into a set

back in the day psy dj's would drop a host of tunes, keepnig the crowd guessing with delight...

now i guess the crowd doesnt care....

it feels like there are no more moments of pure build up, dropping mad stuff , 12 min tracks that build into a flurry of psychedalia..

just for example:

a track break into a momentary silence....(5 secs) , then little pad waves, buildng softly at first , like a 30 second build up, pulling in loads of elements, voices , sounds , morphing into each other...then a small beat come back in , to a final build , into a mad frenzy.....

instead its just sorta....reverse kick, drop, squelch, 2 sec silence, stupid 2 word sample, reserve woosh build, snare roll, with a final four pause snare hits (ala skazi) and BAM ...same beat as before, series of squelchs , and rolling bassline as before.

psy trance is suppose to bend your mind, trick you , play with you....when i think psy i think deeep and organic...like the sound is alive ....

with a mind of its own....very rarely anymore any artist makes sound do that....



RatInAKage
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  26
Posts :  117
Posted : Jun 12, 2006 14:11
I dont think Juno Reactor music music on its own will work at a trance party. A cool remix yes, but the original track is just not made for the Big Rig... I know tons of other great music that I would love to throw into my sets. Covenant, Velvet acid christ to name a couple. But alas, you have to play to the audience.

We have gotten used to booming sound! So if you wanna bring all that shit in, do a remix. Or write something original. I find the South African croud to be very receptive. They love hearing cool new stuff. They are there for the psy experience. So bring it to them....



hummingbird


Started Topics :  6
Posts :  115
Posted : Jun 12, 2006 17:02
Quote:

On 2006-06-12 14:11, RatInAKage wrote:
I dont think Juno Reactor music music on its own will work at a trance party. A cool remix yes, but the original track is just not made for the Big Rig...



Ah, now _there's_ a question I've been wanting to ask for ages...

When you move from stuff that sounds great on the hi-fi to music for a big rig, what needs to be put in ? What needs to be taken out ?

How would you approach a Juno Reactor remix for TheBigRig(tm) ?


          http://soundcloud.com/seasons_end
l337
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  55
Posts :  817
Posted : Jun 12, 2006 17:54
Quote:

On 2006-06-12 14:11, RatInAKage wrote:
I dont think Juno Reactor music music on its own will work at a trance party. A cool remix yes, but the original track is just not made for the Big Rig... I know tons of other great music that I would love to throw into my sets. Covenant, Velvet acid christ to name a couple. But alas, you have to play to the audience.

We have gotten used to booming sound! So if you wanna bring all that shit in, do a remix. Or write something original. I find the South African croud to be very receptive. They love hearing cool new stuff. They are there for the psy experience. So bring it to them....







how do you know it wont sound good on a big rig....

ar you surmising or do you REALLY KNOW....

dont forget trance isnt the only thing played on big rigs....

in fact in comparison to a real stage rig, the average trance rig....ISNT THAT BIG!

take your average band, um, linkin park...they play on bigger rigs to a trance rig and there music sounds just fine,,,

i dont think there is any need to remix a juno tune for a rig,....i think it will come down to a crowd problem, hence the need for a remix , which would defeat the point, and the demonstrates the exact point i was making!


RatInAKage
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  26
Posts :  117
Posted : Jun 14, 2006 14:22
Quote:

On 2006-06-12 17:54, l337 wrote:

i dont think there is any need to remix a juno tune for a rig,....i think it will come down to a crowd problem, hence the need for a remix , which would defeat the point, and the demonstrates the exact point i was making!




Im not literally saying that the music wont sound good playing through big speakers. But there are certain elements that make trance perfect for the BigRig. The kick for example. Is a synthesized wave that is painstakingly engineered to fit in nice and snugly with the bass sound. They perfectly compress against each other in the right frequency range for that optimum crystal clear boom that we all love so much. (the kind of sound travels all the way to your tent and shakes you while you sleep).

I just dont think a real drum and a bass guitar can achieve the same effect.

Theres also no microphones involved in the process (besides for the odd voice sample), no real drums or instruments nothing. All tracks are made up of digitaly synthesized sounds and sounds from sound banks recorded under in a controlled environment.

What you are left with is very clean noiseless stream of audio.

Throw some random Juno Reactor tune in after that, and I just think you lose something.


Trance Forum  Forum  South Africa - For Producers, established and up and coming....

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