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Trance Forum  Forum  South Africa - For Producers, established and up and coming....
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For Producers, established and up and coming....

RatInAKage
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  26
Posts :  117
Posted : Jun 14, 2006 14:25
Then again.

Juno Reactor worked quite nicely in the Matrix Reloaded. Now that was a super big rig!!

You just need Morpheus to give an empassioned speech just before...
l337
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  55
Posts :  817
Posted : Jun 14, 2006 17:28
Quote:

On 2006-06-14 14:22, RatInAKage wrote:
Quote:

On 2006-06-12 17:54, l337 wrote:

i dont think there is any need to remix a juno tune for a rig,....i think it will come down to a crowd problem, hence the need for a remix , which would defeat the point, and the demonstrates the exact point i was making!




Im not literally saying that the music wont sound good playing through big speakers. But there are certain elements that make trance perfect for the BigRig. The kick for example. Is a synthesized wave that is painstakingly engineered to fit in nice and snugly with the bass sound. They perfectly compress against each other in the right frequency range for that optimum crystal clear boom that we all love so much. (the kind of sound travels all the way to your tent and shakes you while you sleep).

I just dont think a real drum and a bass guitar can achieve the same effect.

Theres also no microphones involved in the process (besides for the odd voice sample), no real drums or instruments nothing. All tracks are made up of digitaly synthesized sounds and sounds from sound banks recorded under in a controlled environment.

What you are left with is very clean noiseless stream of audio.

Throw some random Juno Reactor tune in after that, and I just think you lose something.






Do you actually know anything about sound recording and engineering and the making of a trance track??

not all tracks use synthersized kicks....etc as well as the fact that most hats and snares used in trance tracks are real samples that are eq'ed etc.

but lets say most do use synth kicks (which is the case), the big rig makes them sound big....the same would end up happening for a real kick sound...

i think you are highlighted exactly my point Rat. Your basically saying lets not break the generic cos it might sound strange...

last time i checked this was PSYCHEDELIC trance music...isn't it suppose to sound strange??

as far as the painstaking engineernig going into making a kick-bass track...

1-minute : choose astrix,IM,skazi kick from colletion of stolen sampled kicks and import to audio track

30 secs: set VB-1 up and assign to midi track

30 secs: draw in thudda thudda thudda pattern on midi track

2 minutes: EQ bass with standard bass EQ patter using Waves R6

2 minutes: Set up side-chain compression TC comp (or any other comp with sidechain)


6 minutes!!!!!! very painstaking indeed

(btw the above is a satire act, by me!, dont try it at home, you might just get a very phat sounding kick-bass track

RatInAKage
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  26
Posts :  117
Posted : Jun 15, 2006 10:33
Quote:

On 2006-06-14 17:28, l337 wrote:
Do you actually know anything about sound recording and engineering and the making of a trance track??


Sorry man, but I dont quite get the difference between what I wrote and what you wrote.

I Say:
Quote:

Is a synthesized wave that is painstakingly engineered to fit in nice and snugly with the bass sound. They perfectly compress against each other in the right frequency range for that optimum crystal clear boom


you say:
Quote:

2 minutes: EQ bass with standard bass EQ patter using Waves R6

2 minutes: Set up side-chain compression TC comp (or any other comp with sidechain)


Next time I'll try to use more jargon so that I sound cooler.

I still think, that the kickbass is the most important part of the track. most good artists spend many hours rather than just 6 minutes on it.

But whether it takes 6 minutes or 10 years, doesnt change the fact that it practically defines this genre of music. All the rest is pads, synths, voices, guitars. All stuff that the artist thinks is going to add to the track. You can be creative in so many ways as long as you have this solid basis.
Quote:

On 2006-06-12 17:54, l337 wrote:
,....i think it will come down to a crowd problem,


I think trying to throw on a Juno Reactor tune or any other non psytrance tune is lazy. Its not trance so in that sense, yes it is a crowd problem.

Do a remix. problem solved.

hummingbird


Started Topics :  6
Posts :  115
Posted : Jun 15, 2006 10:53
Quote:

Do a remix. problem solved.



The whole idea of remixing Juno Reactor for the new millenium is really intriguing...

I remember catching their set at one of the Synergy parties in the late 90's and being utterly blown away... he had Amampondo on stage with him and the energy was just... wow...

So yeah... I agree that psytrance has evolved into other directions since then but there were some elements there that I think would still work very well on a modern trance floor and would love to hear some opinions on how one could bring them in without alienating the dancers...

          http://soundcloud.com/seasons_end
RatInAKage
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  26
Posts :  117
Posted : Jun 15, 2006 16:05
remixing for the new millenium is what its all about. One of the coolest thing about the psytrance music scene in my opinion is the here today gone tomorrow attitude people have to the music. Todays awesom track is tomorrow's "so two weeks ago" track. Nothing older than a month is ever played by any self respecting DJ.

Its what seperates us from the other genre's. Constant need for fresh new music. No real concept of golden oldies (besides remixes).

Just new new new new new!! or nothing

This also adds to the whole psychadelic experience IMO. I mean each trip is different and so is the music...
l337
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  55
Posts :  817
Posted : Jun 15, 2006 22:10
my 6 minute bass thing was a joke....

and it is possible to put together a really phat ass mofo kick-bass in 6 minutes, hell i can do it in 3!:) but ya that was a joke!

the beginning of my post was also a bit of tongue and cheek,...

your comment about chucking in a juno track as is being lazy, and calling it non-psychedelic isnt so fair....

as far as i am concerned half the crap played at parties these days is very much UNPSYCHEDLIC....

juno reactor is heavy shit, its more trance than half of the shit which is played , please note i was using juno as an example tho, but i think i made my point....

no one plays stuff like ethnoscope etc, all i mean is change, its interesting alot of people kinda didnt get the whole Son Kite thing at the last vort. thats my point, if it isnt fullon or timcode fullon or whatever the commercial shit is called, people dont get it....

i also think that all this remixing is bad for psy, skazi remixing satisfaction (btw brutal killargh anal ass UNR rmx rulz! killargh) i mean come on, i hear so many remixed tunes, its like us saying WE DONT HAVE ANY IDENTITY, lets take other peoples and stick our generic-kick bass on it....



that_damn_guy


Started Topics :  0
Posts :  8
Posted : Jul 21, 2006 20:24
hey guys

someone earlier mentioned organic... i also personally feel that psytrance has lost its psy edge and even its trance elements becoming more psydance or progressive or whatever you want to call it...

anyways, no one has even mentioned where we live. we live in AFRICA damnit! and what do you think when you think africa? yeah... drums, cool african drums and i guess just tribal shit and jungles and whatever....

alot of trance (again like somone said) is very generic, it all sounds so similar, all so electronic and pure frequency based... there is hardly any identity! where are all the organic elements gone like juno reactor

its easy to hear artists from israel.. they definatley have a sound... also thier melodies are very distinctive.

i think as africans we are not proud of our heritage or even trying to showcase it in our sound.

i do think south africa does have a bit of a sound, maybe its a bit "deeper" or growly than others, and it usually has a great funk or groove to it, after all we are on the mother continent and maybe its just the air that makes us good with rythms(?)

anyways id just love to hear more african sounds.
l337
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  55
Posts :  817
Posted : Jul 21, 2006 23:19
Quote:

On 2006-07-21 20:24, that_damn_guy wrote:
hey guys

someone earlier mentioned organic... i also personally feel that psytrance has lost its psy edge and even its trance elements becoming more psydance or progressive or whatever you want to call it...

anyways, no one has even mentioned where we live. we live in AFRICA damnit! and what do you think when you think africa? yeah... drums, cool african drums and i guess just tribal shit and jungles and whatever....

alot of trance (again like somone said) is very generic, it all sounds so similar, all so electronic and pure frequency based... there is hardly any identity! where are all the organic elements gone like juno reactor

its easy to hear artists from israel.. they definatley have a sound... also thier melodies are very distinctive.

i think as africans we are not proud of our heritage or even trying to showcase it in our sound.

i do think south africa does have a bit of a sound, maybe its a bit "deeper" or growly than others, and it usually has a great funk or groove to it, after all we are on the mother continent and maybe its just the air that makes us good with rythms(?)

anyways id just love to hear more african sounds.



nice post mate! (not just because it agrees with everything i said)

but you are right, and maybe this is why i harped on Juno a bit, cos there is a massive use of african drums/drumming and voices (especially on Labyrinth albumn) and i do find it strange that no south african producer has incorporated a massive african blend....but i suppose this comes of the genericness

coool, nice debate!

cheers !

tim
GEM_37
Cold Project

Started Topics :  43
Posts :  483
Posted : Jul 24, 2006 10:19
Quote:

On 2006-06-06 18:11, Caligula wrote:
no... people from loads of other countried praise the south african sound for being unique and distinctive... i think its perhaps harder to tell when you've been to loads of outdoors and seen so many SA artists that it all kind of blurs into one.

but i reckon we have our own sound just as the israeli producers have theirs.




I think the SA fullon scene does have a distinctive sound. However the SA prog scene (and yes there is one) tends to have more of an aussie feel to it ... especially the fluffier prog artists.           http://www.coldproject.co.za
https://www.facebook.com/coldprojectofficial
http://www.soundmute-recordings.com/
psyway

Started Topics :  0
Posts :  9
Posted : Jul 24, 2006 13:59
Quote:

On 2006-06-15 16:05, RatInAKage wrote:
remixing for the new millenium is what its all about. One of the coolest thing about the psytrance music scene in my opinion is the here today gone tomorrow attitude people have to the music. Todays awesom track is tomorrow's "so two weeks ago" track. Nothing older than a month is ever played by any self respecting DJ.

Its what seperates us from the other genre's. Constant need for fresh new music. No real concept of golden oldies (besides remixes).



Rat...

I totally disagree with that statement "Nothing older than a month is ever played by any self respecting DJ."

If that were the case all psy trance DJ's would sound even *more* alike than they do now. You're telling me that it is your opinion that a track, no matter how brilliant has a maximum shelf life of 2-4 weeks !?!?

Wtf? How sad!

There are some timeless tracks that are years old and still deserve some play among all the latest stuff. The trick is to mix and match it so it flows correctly, I still discover tracks that are years old and can definitely rock a dancefloor

I think its a very uninspiring thought for dj's and _especially_ producers that tracks in the psy trance scene are considered obsolete in a months time...?!?!?

About the whole Juno Reactor thing, I think it's very psychedelic stuff and would love to hear more of it on the big rigs, for sure!

Tho, We all have our own (wrong) opinions ;-)

(btw: the track in the matrix that occurs after Morpheus' legendary cave speech is a production by Fluke)
PsydFX
psydFX

Started Topics :  1
Posts :  25
Posted : Jul 24, 2006 15:18
Quote:
(btw: the track in the matrix that occurs after Morpheus' legendary cave speech is a production by Fluke)



so why does everybody think it's juno? i also thought it was a juno track...

re dj'ing:
i know what u mean about a month's lifespan, but certainly not all dj's only play brand new tracks in their sets. i'm still playing azax syndrome's track "rain", which is over a year old, but is still killer!
most sets would be made up of maybe 10 new tracks, 5 slightly older ones and then maybe 4 or 5 'classics'.

but yeah, i know what u mean - when u a dj and u buying 4 or 5 albums a week, tracks become pretty disposable...


          _______________________
www.visionrecords.co.za
GEM_37
Cold Project

Started Topics :  43
Posts :  483
Posted : Jul 24, 2006 16:08
Quote:

On 2006-07-24 15:18, PsydFX wrote:
Quote:
(btw: the track in the matrix that occurs after Morpheus' legendary cave speech is a production by Fluke)



so why does everybody think it's juno? i also thought it was a juno track...




As far as i understand he plays live perc for Juno ??? right or wrong ?           http://www.coldproject.co.za
https://www.facebook.com/coldprojectofficial
http://www.soundmute-recordings.com/
code a
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  12
Posts :  169
Posted : Jul 24, 2006 16:34
Quote:

On 2006-06-07 21:16, l337 wrote:
i think to truly get the SA production scene back on track , producers have to step away from the world and what they have made previously and make fresh psycedelic shit, with a distinct flavour!



not gna happen. those people you're mentioning won't stay here because nobody appreciates their music. everyone loves what they have now. the producers with potential are gna get outta SA asap, if they have the chance, cos, let's face it, besides nice views there is absolutely nothing here.. cape town is a goddamn village. in europe are the parties, the opportunities and the cash.
code a
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  12
Posts :  169
Posted : Jul 24, 2006 16:36
delete this
Zion Llinguist - MMD Rec.
Zion Linguist

Started Topics :  12
Posts :  241
Posted : Jul 24, 2006 16:52
Quote:

cape town is a goddamn village. in europe are the parties, the opportunities and the cash.



In a way i think this is true.. its a real pity i think, altho music is an artform, the artists still gotta eat, pay rent etc.. so ye, its a pity cause the cape town scene is fu#$ing amazing!! oversease artists who come here still say that our scene reminds them of the good old days.. but in the end, the money here isnt good so the budding artists either give up or look for greener pastures!!

Anyway just my 2 cents.. i do still think that the music from here is killer!! u cant say that artifact or lost & found or any other sa artist isnt writing fresh music!! the trance from here is known for its fresh inovativeness!

Peace..           http://www.myspace.com/zionlinguist
Trance Forum  Forum  South Africa - For Producers, established and up and coming....
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