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downloading psytrance - a necessary evil?
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breatheasy
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
48
Posted : Jan 11, 2008 07:54
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I was having an argument yesterday about downloading music.
1) are releases from psytrance artists more important as promotions because they get exposure to orgs everywhere?
2) if it comes down to money, do artists get anything at all for their releases?
3) why are releases so hard to find in india?
4) should legal mp3s be available for sale on release day itself? - would this reduce illegal downloading?
5) in a situation where no cds are available, is downloading at least a way to have access to music?
peace
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Zman
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Jan 11, 2008 08:03
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Ive had many such arguments/battles too  To answer your questions :
Q1) Are releases from psytrance artists more important as promotions because they get exposure to orgs everywhere?
If the artist is producing psytrance as a full-time occupation then the answer is yes. Their main source of income or source of income that draws most $$$ is from gigs. Thus it is important that organizers are exposed to artist's music. This is off course on the international scale- India has very few parties to enable the artists to earn their living comfortably. This again differs from artist to artist and their specific needs but generally it is difficult. But in India it doesn't matter, if your from a foreign country you will be booked irrespective of your music hehe
Q2) If it comes down to money, do artists get anything at all for their releases?
Yes the artists do make money. How much differs from artist to artist - depending on past experience, quality of releases etc - better known as the entertainment value. However, there are also artists who don't charge $$$ for releases and make music as a secondary occupation.
Q3) Why are releases so hard to find in India?
Due to the small market in India - it isn't economically feasible for music stores to offer a plethora of releases. And also the lack of simple understanding in most countries (including our beloved India) that buying music = support. And there is NO OTHER WAY to support this industry in terms of releases. The Japanese market was the only exception until recently, but even the industry in Japan has crashed. (Japan accounted for about 60% of psytrance sales until last year)
Q4) Should legal mp3s be available for sale on release day itself? - would this reduce illegal downloading?
There are legal mp3s available at online digital distribution stores on the day of release and there are tracks in wav format available as well. When labels put out low quality tracks (128 for example) even for free, it not only promotes the music being released but also filters mp3 spread greatly.
Q5) In a situation where no cds are available, is downloading at least a way to have access to music?
Yes but the situation will not arise. CDs are always available from online stores across the world that deliver them right from Ethiopia to Bhutan and from Reykjavik to Auckland. If CDs are unavailable, online digital distributors are there & plenty of new online stores are cropping up these days. Digital Distribution however IMO isn't the solution to piracy in anyway but thats a different story i will ramble about later : )
BooM 
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breatheasy
Started Topics :
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48
Posted : Jan 11, 2008 10:43
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you know R, your points sound valid but then, is 200E for a track enough to sustain an artist? if the output is high enough to sustain the artists, then ok but how many new tracks are possible per month per artist
Also, buying cds online sucks. I bought a bunch of cds online. It took 2 months to reach me and then when you find half the tracks are tracks you dont like, it's severely agitating. Maybe inconsistent quality also encourages listeners of music to download?
Are there really stores that sell high quality mp3s on release day. Please gimme some links.
And on another note, with regards to
"But in India it doesn't matter, if youre from a foreign country you will be booked irrespective of your music hehe "
hahahahahahahaha true true.. but why is this so?
should we look inwards and analyse?
You do realize that people( we indians ) don't travel to parties unless there are firangs. You have to remember that only now indians are producing music..situation will change me thinks veryvery soon.
Peace. Waiting for your next post 
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mk47
Inactive User
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118
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4444
Posted : Jan 11, 2008 11:20
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some attitudes need changing .. thats it .. downloading is cool , lets u have all the music so u can give it a good thorough listen and decide if u want to buy it ..sorry but lousy myspace quality and other online samples just aren't good enough to make that decision instantly , unlike pop for example coz i think ppl here actually care for the music .. names don't sell ..another point to consider is that its very expensive buying cd`s here for 2 reasons .. 1. the shipping costs make it so and 2. ppl don't earn as much , originals sadly , are a luxury here .. we need a solid distribution .. based here .. beyond logic .. very limited .. sonic tantra .. amature low quality stuff
good topic tho its been discussed endlessly here .. the solution is .. there is no solution .. just try occasionally and pick up cd`s that u really like ... u`l feel better
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mk47
Inactive User
Started Topics :
118
Posts :
4444
Posted : Jan 11, 2008 11:50
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oops .. did we wander a bit offtopic there ..damn coffee  ..
1) are releases from psytrance artists more important as promotions because they get exposure to orgs everywhere?
more important ? sorry don`t understand the question
2) if it comes down to money, do artists get anything at all for their releases?
sometimes i guess , but they get cheated many times as indicated by the many ``xxrecords is a theif`` threads here
3) why are releases so hard to find in india?
no local distribution system
4) should legal mp3s be available for sale on release day itself? - would this reduce illegal downloading?
nope
5) in a situation where no cds are available, is downloading at least a way to have access to music?
doh!
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Zman
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
14
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3784
Posted : Jan 11, 2008 12:05
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@breatheasy
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you know R, your points sound valid but then, is 200E for a track enough to sustain an artist? if the output is high enough to sustain the artists, then ok but how many new tracks are possible per month per artist
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200-300 Euro is usually the standard when it comes to decently established night time producers. I don't think im in a position to speak for artists but i do know artists who do sustain themselves of this 300 Euro : ) As for how many tracks one can produce it can vary. Let me use 2 well known names to show both sides of the coin - my bro Silent Horror while he was in Pune this time around was producing a finished track every 3-5 days believe it or not, and its not from what he told me but because he used to send me every one of them. And and remarkably he managed to sell every single one of them over the span of 2 months while he was in India - thats something around 10-12 tracks a month which is quite a lot of output. Silent Horror however doesn't rely on this scene for his bread and refuses to play any sets whether DJ or Live. On the other hand we have artists like Syntax Error from Denmark who release max 4-5 tracks in a year, but the balance is met because he plays at 3-4 gigs a month considering he is one half of the Grapes of Wrath project. So there are artists who do manage to survive just out of this music.
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Also, buying cds online sucks. I bought a bunch of cds online. It took 2 months to reach me and then when you find half the tracks are tracks you dont like, it's severely agitating. Maybe inconsistent quality also encourages listeners of music to download?
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Where are you buying your music? Sitting here in the US i order anything between 3-5 cd s a month from either Saikosounds or Psyshop and i receive them anytime between 1-2 weeks from the day i placed the order. Never had any issues except for one time when i received a broken CD. Off course it is extremely pissing off having to receive CD s that are mediocre. $$$ doesn't grow on trees and i am not ashamed to admit that i give every release a listen in its mp3 format but i DO buy those releases which i enjoy & those releases from labels who i support. As you rightly said inconsistent quality is the reason why a lot of people have given up on buying original copies. There a bunch of 6-7 labels i trust & i always end up buying their releases, but the rest are always meticulously screened in their mp3 format before i get my credit card out.
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Are there really stores that sell high quality mp3s on release day. Please gimme some links.
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http://www.audiojelly.com
http://www.6362metaforce.net
just two i can think of at the top of my head... i never use online digital download stores. im a big fan of having the cd with the artwork in my hands. check this thread for more info:
http://forum.isratrance.com/labels-and-artists-make-your-full-catalogue-available-in-the-digital-download-shops/
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"But in India it doesn't matter, if youre from a foreign country you will be booked irrespective of your music hehe "
hahahahahahahaha true true.. but why is this so?
should we look inwards and analyse?
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The word "WE" is invalid my friend. It largely has to do with the organizer's attitude and outlook. I respect you because i know your intentions are good and i like your vibe. But there are organizers who do this for the money and the only reason they book random sub-par firang artists is to draw the crowd. Sadly it is reality that a lot of the crowd that show up @ psy parties are there for the trips or to socialize, and if a foreign dj is playing they treat it as though God himself is descending from the skies. I can bet India has better talent hidden within it  I won't take names but when a friend of mine once asked an organizer from Bangalore who his favorite artist was, the answer was "im not sure" haha thats reality! hard to digest but its the truth. I have been into this music for long enough to know who is who when it comes to the artists so when i look inwards i think i come through clean : ) a random foreign dj by no means gives me anymore reason to attend a party than one of the local dudes would.
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You do realize that people( we indians ) don't travel to parties unless there are firangs. You have to remember that only now indians are producing music..situation will change me thinks very very soon.
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I think your wrong. As i said in response to the previous quotation there are people out here who know whats worth attending and what isn't. Firangs frankly mean nothing, i don't find dirty Israeli penis' a good enough reason to attend a party hehe : ) Indians have been producing psytrance for a couple of years. Its just the number of Indian artists that was in scarcity until recently. India is pretty much on the global psy map after releases from various Indian labels and albums like Alien Mental - Mind Hack on arguably the most respected label world wide (Insomnia Records) & also like Silent Horror - Nemesis that has got extremely positive responses. We also have DJs like freeaatmah & karan bhoj who have been playing @ the Boom in Portugal so we are on our way to the top no doubt.
@mk47 Perfectly said bro its the buying which matters at the end of it, not the mp3 downloads. Sadly many people only do the downloading. Shipping costs are frightfully expensive & maybe digital downloads are an alternative? For wav quality sake at least? I wish Beyond Logic continued their online store and kept it up to date but as i said earlier the market is simply non existent for it to be economically viable. They are a respectable label who have had some quality releases in the past for sure & they have certainly done their bit in keeping this genre alive in India. I agree about Sonic Tantra too IMHO the stuff coming out of that label is quite hilarious - absolutely nothing worth hearing... No offense to anybody from Sonic Tantra, just my opinion.
At the end of it all the harsh truth is there isn't any practical solution as of 2008 or many years to come i predict. Until we find a non copyable audio format we are all sinking together hehe : )
Hope i answered everything : )
BooM & Peace & love
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Cosmic Oneness
IsraTrance Junior Member
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30
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711
Posted : Jan 11, 2008 12:47
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It's a choice you make to either buy or download for free ! Free music on the internet has given the scene a massive thrust forward and now you just can't stop it. Buying CD's is not the same as supporting artists or the music ! The music is what it's all for, so it's all good ...
I love P2P file sharing !
 " All is One "
When we change the way we see things, the things we see begin to change ... In Lak'ech Ala K'in ... |
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Bloodclot
Bloodclot
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93
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2190
Posted : Jan 11, 2008 14:28
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Quote:
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On 2008-01-11 10:43, breatheasy wrote:
You do realize that people( we indians ) don't travel to parties unless there are firangs. You have to remember that only now indians are producing music..situation will change me thinks veryvery soon.
Peace. Waiting for your next post
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Who said so? I certainly hope you aren't speaking on behalf of everyone here. I've met a few vernacular people who have that concept embedded in their minds but certainly not the majority of the people I know. That's a stupid thing to say.
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breatheasy
Started Topics :
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48
Posted : Jan 11, 2008 16:47
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On 2008-01-11 14:28, Bloodclot wrote:
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On 2008-01-11 10:43, breatheasy wrote:
You do realize that people( we indians ) don't travel to parties unless there are firangs. You have to remember that only now indians are producing music..situation will change me thinks veryvery soon.
Peace. Waiting for your next post
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Who said so? I certainly hope you aren't speaking on behalf of everyone here. I've met a few vernacular people who have that concept embedded in their minds but certainly not the majority of the people I know. That's a stupid thing to say.
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touchy touchy
I'm definititely not speaking for everybody.
And i really hope i'm wrong.
this is my opinion dude..no need to get your chadis in a bunch.
Peace |
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plant_manager
IsraTrance Junior Member
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25
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Posted : Jan 11, 2008 18:34
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ahh the age old discussion....I have had numerous arguments too...but there is no ONE solution to this one..It is definitely not enough for an artist to sustain him/herself courtesy TRACK sales alone...unless of course you are a big gun charging the magical 4 figures. The prime source for an artist I believe is the income from Gigs and tours, which is why unreleased music is a big issue...premature release wipes out the whole exclusivity factor eh ! Its just how Britney or Timbaland would make money..on a much much larger scale though.
There is no harm in downloading music...as long as one can do his or her bit by buying their share of music every fortnight ! There is SO much out there and its impossible to own every CD released (unless you ARE britney or Timbaland -with that kinda money  ) But yeah...buy what you like...buy something you KNOW you will hear time and again..i do...i know people who do ! who knows...one day India might have a psy distribution like them psyshops and saikos!! like they taught us in school...demand will lead to supply !!
and BIG up to labels that give out releases for digital downloads...that is a luxury to buy only what you like ...therefore justice to the artist and justice to the consumer ! Producing is 'work'..it deserves remuneration.....as someone wrote above...attitudes NEED to change |
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Lesser Soul
IsraTrance Junior Member
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838
Posted : Jan 11, 2008 19:52
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buy if you can afford it is what i say ...
and as far as firangi's obsession goes ...most of the pps are not too sure that the indian boys shall deliver the goods thus they chase firangi names as of date ...it shall surely change going fwd ....Ghar Ki Murgi Daal Barabar or something ...this attitude shall surely change once ppl get to hear more of indian talent ........i would rather listen to Kerosene Club / White Wizard / even tinkoo et all from DarkSun then ....a Super Sam
Being, a bundle of minute, unique particulars in which, by some unspeakable and yet self-evident paradox, was to be seen the divine source of all existence. |
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phiber_optixz
IsraTrance Full Member
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162
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2072
Posted : Jan 11, 2008 23:28
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Nice topic! : )
Alrite, so its about supporting psytrance by buying CDs. Yes, I do spend as much as I can from my earnings and i'm truly proud of that. In fact, more than 30% of my monthly income is spent on psytrance CDs  In addition that, I download quite a few UNR's and PsyCZ, Heman, Ganesha, UPE stuff as many others on this forum do.
Now, that's because I need to satisfy my appetite for psy, and that's not limited to 10 or 12 albums a month.
Psyshop sucks rat balls. Have ordered twice. Once I got the CDs, 45 days after ordering and the never got them the 2nd time, even after repeated mails and complaints to psyshop. Finally, had to accept the word from them. They said the CDs were delivered at my place and someone would have stolen them! Since then I use Saiko Sounds whenever I have to order. It's the best for India AFAIK.
As far as supporting psytrance by buying CDs goes, here are my 2 cents : Someone gimme a better job!! I'll buy 10 or more CDs a month. At present, its 4 to 5 a month.
India is a country where 90% of computer users install pirated/ripped off versions of OS and software amounting to 1000s of $$ in their computers. Think before comparing India with any other developed country like Germany, Japan etc.
As the standard of living of a country improves, their buying capacity also increases. It's directly proportional. Now, you see why Japan buys a lot of things! If an average Japanese or German buys 10 CDs a month, Indians cannot afford more than 5 a month. That's economics.
Cmo'n people, buy or download, torrents, p2p... it all narrows down to vibes at the end. Let the vibes be positive and everything else will follow.
Om Trayambakam Yajaamahe
Sugandhim Pushti - vardhanam|
Urva - rukamiva Bandhanan
Mrytor - muksheeya ma - amritaat|| |
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Zman
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
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3784
Posted : Jan 12, 2008 01:43
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I understand everyones opinion but in reality is it THAT hard to buy ONE cd in a year? I really don't think so. Sure 1000 rupees per CD aint no joke but come on, one a year isn't asking for too much IMO. In this industry 1 CD could mean the difference between profit & loss sadly because the numbers we are dealing with are so small. Even if you feel buying 1 CD a year isn't going to make any difference why not just buy it for the sake of it? Your favorite artist...or favorite label or something.
Serious psytrance producers aren't walking around with neon boards saying "social service" stuck to their foreheads are they? Even they need to make a living after all..
At the end of the day people are going to continue doing what they please... I just hope people realize that one day there will be no more psytrance releases on the market because there will be no market in the first place. All we are going to be left with is amateurish producers putting out low quality tunes on the net for free since the serious producers will move onto professions with higher incomes.
That will be a very sad day...
BooM & support this industry to whatever extent you can : ) |
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breatheasy
Started Topics :
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48
Posted : Jan 12, 2008 02:34
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On 2008-01-12 01:43, zmandan wrote:
one day there will be no more psytrance releases on the market because there will be no market in the first place. All we are going to be left with is amateurish producers putting out low quality tunes on the net for free since the serious producers will move onto professions with higher incomes.
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fucking scary situation...buy buy before they switch to bhangra lol 
I think i will not pay for a cd unless i like at least 6 out of 9 tracks. this is a personal opinion. please dont pounce on me bloodclot 
digital downloads (wavmp3flac whatever)
is the way of the future. People should have the choice to buy the tracks they like.
the trick would be to get them to buy and not just download for free.
How to add value hmmmm?
bring out the marketing peoples!! 
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Bloodclot
Bloodclot
Started Topics :
93
Posts :
2190
Posted : Jan 12, 2008 02:48
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On 2008-01-11 16:47, breatheasy wrote:
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On 2008-01-11 14:28, Bloodclot wrote:
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On 2008-01-11 10:43, breatheasy wrote:
You do realize that people( we indians ) don't travel to parties unless there are firangs. You have to remember that only now indians are producing music..situation will change me thinks veryvery soon.
Peace. Waiting for your next post
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Who said so? I certainly hope you aren't speaking on behalf of everyone here. I've met a few vernacular people who have that concept embedded in their minds but certainly not the majority of the people I know. That's a stupid thing to say.
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touchy touchy
I'm definititely not speaking for everybody.
And i really hope i'm wrong.
this is my opinion dude..no need to get your chadis in a bunch.
Peace
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It sounded more like a fact than an opinion - hence the 'touchy' response.
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