TimeTraveller
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Posted : Jan 6, 2017 06:57
hey so how is it so far with Cubase 9? Do you still think it was absolutely worth the 100 euro more for this upgrade?
How would you compare Ableton (with Max for Live) to Cubase?
I don't have Ableton anymore .. Once I used a try be4 buy version - without Max for Live and I think back to this times often. Was fun. I sometimes think that Ableton is best organized and designed for producing psytrance.. the tools inside of Max for Live seem so damn useful, also I miss all that granular jazz you can do to each audio file in Ableton. Something that is not possible just with Cubase and that could be so much fun and so useful for making Psy.
I mostly produce with Renoise these days, since I like its neardy features and the fast workflow. It's a great tool for sound design on its own, its like a digital big modular to me. But I feel I maybe wanna add Bitwig or Ableton at some point to my studio.
I think Cubase got more options to offer and it's very professional in its shapes, also the plug ins are probably of much higher quality, espescially in the dynamics section but when looking on e.g. PsiloCybian Tutorials I then see so often things you simply cannot do just with Cubase. This great LFO that can be routed to any fuckin thing is golden for instance if you know what I mean. I still will upgrade to Cubase 9 at some point and this will probably stay my main Daw (and for sure for mixing and masterings) in the long term but as previously said, Ableton is a bit more proper weapon for Psytrance imo. Bitwig looks like coming slowly but with absolutely new features too.
What still pisses me off a bit is that Cubase will demand each year atleast 100 Euro for its updates and I'm not sure if they really are so necesseary. The others are all proper DAW's too and regarding Ableton its years since a real update I think... One can expect to see a real monster update in the next version, I guess. What do you think?
https://soundcloud.com/shivagarden
vipal
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Posted : Jan 7, 2017 18:05
steinberg/yamaha tries to turn a sale into a paid prescription, its a bit as if you buy your house and continue to pay the rent. only fools... just stop the nonsense to pay for anymore upgrades unless you make money on features in the new version.
http://soundcloud.com/vipal
TimeTraveller
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Posted : Jan 8, 2017 03:38
Quote:
On 2017-01-07 18:05, vipal wrote:
steinberg/yamaha tries to turn a sale into a paid prescription, its a bit as if you buy your house and continue to pay the rent. only fools... just stop the nonsense to pay for anymore upgrades unless you make money on features in the new version.
frisbeehead
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Posted : Jan 12, 2017 14:07
I don't regret having spend the money on this update. At first sight, it seems like they haven't added all that much, specially when compared to the impact that Cubase 8 and its feature-set had back at the time. But once you get past that first impression and actually get down to business, one thing that hits you is that there's no comparison between this version and 8 when it comes to stability and overall reliability.
This is probably the thing that's most surprising, as the experience with version 8 was quite the opposite. I had to wait until 8.0.3 (I think) to get things performing well on my system. What I mean is, to feel comfortable making music without worrying about some sudden crash that would disrupt your creative mojo.
So that's the first and probably the most important point. Cubase 9 is stable, rock solid and performs very well.
The second thing about Cubase 9 is the interface. Now there's less of a need to worry about workspaces, since you can find all editors in the same place, nice and tidy. This also allows you to work a little faster, since everything is just easier to reach for.
To further illustrate my point, I'd say I can't remember the last time I've seen the floating transport bar. I've changed its preset to "keyboard only", as that's the only use I have for it now that the transport controls are docked underneath everything else. I don't remember ever having opened the midi editor on a separate window, except when writing stuff that covers a very wide range of notes, in which case it's more convenient to have the whole screen available. Most of the time, you don't ever open them again. The low zone has it all.
I really liked being able to use Retrologue 2 as a processing unit, 'cause I really like its filters and their distortion. I think this feature is probably rare nowadays due to the fact that most developers have been very slow to implement vst3, and most of the time have done so only by patching their vst2 version, thus not making use of any of the new possibilities. Well, except for Steinberg of course. The same applies to note expression and all that stuff. But the concept itself is very nice and works flawlessly.
Third point is their EQ. I mean, you don't need another one. It's a very capable and nice sounding EQ. With a vast feature set and nice, straight to the point interface. Same thing goes for the new Auto Pan. Who needs the CableGuys stuff now? Or other similar stuff? This one can do it all. The new Maximizer is really nice, it's got a transient enhancer feature, you know, like on some other limiters, where it kind of introduces back the transient information that's been squashed through the limiting, making everything sound more clear and punchy. It really sounds much better then their legacy one (which you can still use and compare) and I'd say its on pair with most other software limiters out there.
So to put things in perspective. I think it does feel like it has evolved a lot from 8. I understand that many people feel that they should have added more stuff. But when you think about it, it's probably the most feature rich DAW out there anyway. And now it just feels more mature and fine tuned, so I'm pleased with it.
I understand that 100€ is a lot of money and that it feels like we're paying a rent. Sure. But I wouldn't go so far as to isolate Steinberg and Yamaha. Most other companies are doing it. And the fast paced updates has certainly got something to do with how fast major tech companies are pushing their OS updates too. It's all easier to handle if you sync up your releases with the expected novelty coming from other companies that you ultimately depend on.
I'm honestly more worried about the other companies, like Apple and Microsoft and where they're headed. Because nowadays it feels like Apple is indeed selling overpriced computers whose hardware doesn't quite match what you find elsewhere - but that's hardly news. News is that now their software is sucking pretty badly as well. And that's to do with the situation we've discussed previously here.
For me, I'm looking at things trying to see signs of any good thing that might eventually turn up due to the fact that both Microsoft and Apple seem to neglect the pro-user market more and more. Linux would be great, but then you'd have to dispense with almost all the third-party plug-ins, and I'd rather burn money then do that. As you may have guessed, I feel like we're all being played with in a progressively more nastier way. And that there's currently no hassle free option out there.
It's a bit strange when you can get laptops whose specs are completely mind blowing, capable of running 4k games without breaking a sweat. But somehow, amidst all this amazing great technology that is turning more and more mature now, and starting to finally deliver on what's been promised to us since Windows 95 (where the only thing bug free was probably Brian Eno's startup sound); creative professionals still need to perform some weird calculations to be able to keep on working properly. Things like: what OS version do I install to be able to write music without the computer farting all the time? This is surely a bit stupid for multi-core computers with tons of ram, lightning fast SSD disks and what not, no? But they somehow manage to screw things up badly for us.
For me, Ableton is no rival to Cubase. Its complementary. I love to make use of the MAX devices that you've mentioned, it certainly has its uniqueness in that you can use it almost like you'd use an hardware based setup with S&H triggers, all sorts of generative, thought through randomization and juicy weirdness you can think of. I don't like that it sometimes screws up the UNDO list when using the MAX devices. That's something that they'll probably solve on the next major version - or should. I also think of it as a sketch pad, to quickly lay down ideas and get a vibe going fast. I even like their browser for that, the whole interface in fact. I think it's a very creative tool and one that makes you think differently, when compared to the likes of Cubase, Logic, Pro Tools and the likes.
With that sort of thing, it's really down to each and every one of us to decide. I'm in no position to say what's best to someone else. I really like both of them a lot. I wouldn't want to give away any of them. I like using both. I find it a little disturbing to realize I can use most DAWs these days. I should probably get out more XD
Cheers
frisbeehead
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Posted : Jan 19, 2017 17:02
I just received a notification by Apple saying that there's a brand new update for Logic X - version 10.3.
If you look at their fixes, it's mostly the things I've talked about here before, namely what interferes severely with the workflow. It all makes sense and makes Logic a much more mature DAW that's true competition for the likes of Cubase and Pro Tools.
But, unfortunately, and it's easy to see how it connects with much of what I've said previously here - and it's certainly pushing into the off topic territory, even though looking at all the action here lately, I presume that's not something one has to worry about - it forces you to install the LATEST OPERATING SYSTEM in order to install this update.
There can be many explanations given to such a thing. But none that's convincing enough. What this is, very clearly, is an aggressive strategy to force users to move to their latest versions of software in order to keep up with the latest developments. There's absolutely no need for this, since there hasn't been any architectural changes in later OS versions that are mandatory to implement the changes they've done. Goes without saying, since this features can be found on the competition, and running on prior OS versions. This includes Cubase Pro 9, of course, which I'm running in a machine with Mac OS Yosemite installed on it.
This is sickening, to say the least. And goes on to show why the apparently small price you pay for Logic doesn't necessarily equate to a better service by your providers. All they care about is to grab you and push you into their system, so you have to regularly buy more hardware from them. Planned obsolescence isn't something new, by any stretch of the imagination, I've studied this myself in my Design education days, but the way things are carried out today is in stark contrast with the user's best interests. It just feels aggressive. It may seem like I'm specifically hitting Apple in the nose, here, and I am. But the punch in the nose isn't specific for Apple, since Microsoft is also pushing their users to their new software versions in equally abusive and even more annoying ways - for further reference, all it takes is a search for windows 10 update memes online.
Overall, there's a severe lack of respect for creative professionals throughout. There's the increasingly more aggressive subscription model replacing the previous "buy it and its yours" model - that used to carry along with it the presumption that the developers would continue to iron out bugs, implement changes on the software you've bought, so as to make things work as good as possible. Whole number updates used to be about more or different features, leaving the user to decide if he needs them or not. It wouldn't necessarily render the former versions obsolete and certainly it wouldn't mean a lack of proper support for it - even when new versions of Operating Systems showed up, which happened at a much slower pace anyway.
Having all this in mind, it's clear to me that I've made the right choice buying Cubase. For one, I don't feel as imprisoned by Apple's ecosystem anymore, since Cubase is a cross-platform software. Another good point, is that it's got the features present on Logic's newest update and I can use all of that without being forced to move to a newer OS that WILL (capitals to underline the certainty behind it) have a negative impact on both the stability and overall performance. And all this for the sheer joy of having more and more bloat that's been converted from iOS gadgets into the computer ecosystem.
In other words, it sucks. And it sucks badly! But for those dumb enough to spend nearly 3k on a brand new MBP whose specs would cost you less then half on none Apple brands - and the maximum 16GB of ram limit feels almost like a bad joke, along with the stupid decision to remove usb from a computer that's been the staple of musicians all round the world - and that already have the latest OS installed, then this update might have made Logic what it should have been a long time ago. Because, let's face it: not being able to transpose audio regions directly feels like a bad joke.
Also worth mentioning, is that they've finally fixed their lousy, ugly, severely bloated and cumbersome interface - whose good looks made me feel sick and start looking for an alternative, which is what brought us here (to Cubase) in the first place.
I guess this whole deal also means that maybe Steinberg and Yamaha aren't the worst companies in this market. I'm glad I paid the 100€ for the update. Much happier then I'd be if I was still using Logic as my main program, only to find out I'd walked into a trap of either using the stupidly limited program they have or move to their newest shitty software just to make it on pair with decent alternatives.
I know this is a very aggressive kind of tone. Well, after having spent so much money on them, I couldn't possibly care any less.
Cheers
frisbeehead
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Posted : Jan 19, 2017 17:17
I'm betting this enables one to install the latest update on a system running prior Operating Systems. I'd expect no problems at all, since I'm pretty sure this "system requirements" are based on what the share holders want and expect rather then any decent rational reason.
I'll probably test this myself some time soon. To busy right now to even look at it. But here it is.
frisbeehead
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Posted : Jan 20, 2017 12:09
EDIT: the solution I've posted DOES NOT work.
TimeTraveller
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Posted : Mar 12, 2017 13:45
Hey anybody knows if there is an option in Cubase for setting a specific scale?
What I would like is having an option where you define a scale from a list (and key of course) and after it you have only the keys that are -in the scale- inside your key editor.
If you want to be out of scale there could be an option for it to have full freedom in composing. But if not thats not dramastic I'd be able to find a wayaround.
I'm not sure if this feature exist. I always looked here http://www.looknohands.com/chordhouse/piano/ and memorized the scale I wanted, but I found out in some other DAW's there exist options like I described and it's really easier, without memorizing, changing platforms, look on sides, going back etc.
Could not find it, apart of that usual min, maj in the great chord tracks.
I'd like to set a gypsy-arabic-oriental kind of scale and have a go in a nutshell without all that hazzle.
The minor scales sound somtimes oriental but they are very very common in psy and I'd like to be a bit fresh in my moods.
If anybody knows if there is such option in Cubase pls lemme know!
Peace
https://soundcloud.com/shivagarden
frisbeehead
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Posted : Mar 15, 2017 20:19
Yes, in the track inspector, in midi inserts, if you pick midi modifiers, there's an option for the root note and another for the scale. It automatically quantizes the note input to the nearest note that belongs to the scale when on. You can make this change permanent by selecting freeze midi modifiers option, on the midi menu on top.
Also, on the midi editor, you can select all and also just quantize to a chosen scale.
You'll probably use both depending on the situation.
With the chord pads, you can also add your own quite easily, even from events of your own or music that you've imported into a session. The proximity thing is no joke, it's well thought off, pointed me in some good directions that I wouldn't necessarily go to myself without the hint - if you know what I mean. And that can only be a good thing.
Cheers
frisbeehead
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Posted : Mar 15, 2017 20:28
But I do agree that they somehow could make this a little bit easier. I'm with you on this one. I remember having a similar thought, like, what if I just selected some scale into the pads and have a go. It's not as easy as it seems.
However, if you draw them in yourself, even though it's a bit more tedious, then it's easier to turn this into chord pads right away. Or you can also select them by name on a list, luckily there's a search function in there.
I'm not quite sure if the options I've pointed out to you do cover all the scales, including the most exotic ones. I don't have it open right now, but I think that's hardly the case, simply 'cause the list isn't that big - that much I can tell right now.
TimeTraveller
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Posted : Mar 19, 2017 03:39
ok, it's cool to have these options, but I must say I'd prefer it the way I described above. That way you can compose straight in the right scale without having the notes to get kind of quantized to the demanded scale after pressing the keys.
I need to have a deeper look to the chord pads again, imo one of the very best aspects of Cubase possibilites - what you can do with it is a world of knowledge fot itself but regarding different scales, all I see is minor major, augmented, and just the very standard scales.. like harmonic minor etc. But than its really deep each time I'm gettin to it, I have a longer learning process to relearn old things again and again. Its a lot what you can do with it. And I tend to forget lots of things after time. I think this will really sink deep in mind after some longer time for me.
Proximity... I lost it for now.. I know I used it .. dunno why I have the term -air- when I think of it. However.. it must be centuries ago that I used it, probably in older work in studio. Have no idea. What are u using it for? stereo image stuff? I think in protools you can set on proximity mono
Right now I'm with full heart in Cubase and more in synthesis, bazille, retrologue and virus, recording tweaking and having lots of fun. I wish I had now cash than I'd buy a Virus TI, really like the Virus thing. The Virus B I use is very old meanwhile I dig the newer ones must be so much more cool to play with. Also I really love Bazille synth very much. All I miss is a physical modeling synth like Sculpture in Cubase - when it comes to synths.
What are your most used plug ins these days?
frisbeehead
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Posted : Mar 19, 2017 20:20
If you engage the "midi modifiers" plug-in, on the midi inserts tab, then it behaves like you say - similar to what you can do with Ableton with the "scale" plug-in and other solutions.
The other option I've mentioned is just so you can make this corrections permanent - I mean the "freeze midi modifiers" option. It's useful, because you might not want it turned on all the time or may decide not to religiously follow some scale, but add your own deviations throughout.
I honestly don't know the price. There's plenty more dedicated plug-ins for this sort of thing whose options seem amazing. The one from Xfer Records also, which I've only demoed myself, is quite nice and also doubles as an insanely configurable arpeggiator.
This new trend is quite cool, I think. To have plug-ins whose focus is totally on the functionality. I've seen somewhere that there's a plug-in with which you can create modulation signals, similar to max4live's LFO, only this one has to output the CVish messages through a more common thing, like pitch or mod wheels, leaving you to route this to any desired parameter and have a somewhat similar experience in Cubase or another one, like you would with Live. Difference being that Live's just grabs any parameter and it's good to go.
Proximity is one of the things I've seen being talked about everywhere, has drawn my attention but was moved to the "must see what all the fuss is about someday" list and never really got into it. Maybe someone here can say more.
I'm using much the same tools as you, when it comes to synths. Bazille is one of the things I reach for all the time. I also love Reaktor Blocks with some of the user packs that are really mind blowing - if you're into patching stuff and going nuts with experimentation and record as you go, and chop chop kinda work that is.
I've always used Albino a lot and still do. I realize that it's somewhat dated tech these days, but I don't care. I can take it to other places through my processing and editing. And I know it inside out (not a very hard feat in itself, since it's rather simple) and I also think I tend to work with it in a similar way I do with the Virus and that the structure is quite similar. Many times I end up replacing some sounds with the Virus or another synth.
I'm a fan of the U-he stuff, even their FX bundle. I also like some Audio Damage plug-ins that I think are quite cheap and sound amazing, perhaps a little underrated too. I think they owe nothing to some more well known developers like Softube and the likes, when it comes to their FX.
I like the Discovery Pro as it's way similar to the Nord Lead, but I really love their new filters and I have it mapped perfectly, so I use that one as you would the Virus, it feels like hardware and I sometimes route this out of the computer, run it through stuff and back again.
I like doing that stuff when I'm not feeling lazy. Which is probably why I haven't done it for a while...
I've also bought Serum and I absolutely love it. To me, it feels like it got inspired by Massive and Zebra, but somehow it invites me to create my own wavetables and accomplish some mad stuff with it.
But I think of Serum as a quicky, honestly. I can dial up a sound and go fast. Massive is the same. Zebra is more like a tool where I like to get lost into and save the results to use later
TimeTraveller
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Posted : Mar 22, 2017 14:23
Cool, cheers for the advice I found out the scale correction in midi modifiers and tested it a bit. Possibly it can work for me, after getting more used to it, but as for now it seems not that simple as in this elegant way :
Fast, simple a and effective.
And you can go out of scale and back within one click anytime.
I will test the scale correction stuff more at some point. When I have the time or no melodies in mind hehe.
Maybe it's just a different approach to the same but so far I haven't reached it to have just the keys of a specific scale inside of the key editor.
I tried midi freeze options etc and I realized the potential but haven`t reached what I would like. At least so far. It might be there. I spend only a few devoted minutes, played with it and changed a few things.
These kinds of plug ins like in ya link are great & helping but they're packed with tons of options that I personaly feel I don't really need.
Sometime ago I tried this one, which is similar:
https://www.kvraudio.com/product/tonespace-by-mucoder I tried it out for some tracks but ended up writing all as before - manually without nothing else. I needed to read all ths damn manual and in the end I wanna get rid of it. Lost time for my purposes.
On my last vacation I found out by random the scale options of Caustic and it was like an enlighment hehe. It is such a cheap software for fun intended to use on smartphones but this one and particular area of this app is pretty well solved out imo.
I sometimes have a melody in mind and need to quickly write it down in the key editor - not to loose it from mind and to see if it's in the "right" key and harmonizes with the other elements of an already existing arrangment.
For me it would be optimal to have then just the right keys in key editor within a single click.
That's all.
Serum seems very mighty, seems also like a moster that has lots of deepness. Btw what kind of Virus do you use?
Have you heard of MPowerSynth? .. check out the video(s).. https://www.meldaproduction.com/MPowerSynth
The GUI looks not that cool and the name is probably a bit unspectacular but the synth itself it's a beast and has a lot of unique features.
I wanna buy this one at some point.
https://soundcloud.com/shivagarden
frisbeehead
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Posted : Mar 22, 2017 22:20
I have the Virus C desktop. It only has a couple more features compared to the B, I think - and some of them were added with the firmware updates, like a 3 band EQ, their own Ladder design emulation, named Analogue with 4 slope options, which sounds ok doing what it's supposed to do, but can sound very cool when going for its rather distinct character instead, which is digital. Besides from those features, I think it's pretty much the same deal.
I've also tried the Ti range. Well, it's got plenty more features on the engine and feels like it can cover a lot more stuff with their supersaw thing and wavetables and all that. But it somehow loses a bit of its almost one knob for all the important features thing, 'cause it's really far more convenient to explore all those extra features with their plug-in. That's not the way I usually go about the Virus, I use it pretty much with the board - the nice thing that's not to complicated to make a sound with that sits in front of you and that's also nice to tweak stuff as you record it - I like the feel of them knobs.
But I wouldn't mind having the TI, even though I feel that I have all those other options, sound design wise, well covered with other stuff, so it wouldn't necessarily be something that I need, just something that would be a nice addition - but then the price turns me off, now that there's so many good things out there...
Besides, I feel a bit spoiled these days. I mean, if we're realistic, some of the plug-ins we have now, even Retrologue 2 that comes bundled with Cubase, probably makes a better job at emulating the analogue sound then most 90's VA synths did. Stuff like Serum, Zebra, Omnisphere and many others offer so much in terms of sound design and sound quality that it's really just a matter of preference these days, I guess.
Will check the videos on the MPowerSynth. Come to think of it, I've never ever used any of the Melda stuff.
About the scales stuff. I think there's no such options on most DAWs. But the closest you can get, in Ableton or Logic, is by collapsing the piano roll view so it only presents the notes already used as options - which will look similar to what happens on the video you linked above. You'd still need to draw the notes of a given scale before doing this, though.
In Ableton there's also the Scale plug-in, with some presets of the most commonly used scales and the possibility for you to customize this as you want and save the presets. It works similarly to the "midi modifiers" in Cubase, you don't see anything, you can draw the notes wherever you like, but you can't hit a wrong note either by playing or drawing 'cause it will always default to one that belongs to the chosen scale. In both applications, you'd have to freeze the midi afterwards so you can see the changes/corrections. From this point on, in Cubase, the midi plug-in is automatically bypassed, allowing you to edit at will with no restrictions.
To my needs I think that's enough, honestly. But I can see why one would like to be able to try out all those weird exotic scales if one would chose to. I think I'd be happy with being able to customize this, like with Ableton's Scale - then someone would surely provide presets with all the scales known to man or they'd do it themselves.
Have you checked the Xfer Records plug-in? It's probably overkill but it looks as though it would allow one to do what you want.
TimeTraveller
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Posted : Mar 27, 2017 21:25
Cool read. Do you use the software for your Virus? And if what kind? The only thing I feel limited is that I actually don't have an appropriate software. I consider buying Vcommander - but not sure if it works for Virus B on Windows 10. Have to write an email to the VCommander creator at some point I guess.
And defo, I see it the same, the plug ins nowadays got way more possibilities and some of the got already that "analogue" warmness desired by many.
Haven't tried out the Xfer Records plug in so far. Have plenty of stuff to do these days but I'll give it a try soon.
btw are you maybe at Forest Soul Gathering (21.7.) in Portugal this summer? I will work there. Would be nice to chat someday in real time https://soundcloud.com/shivagarden
