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Cubase 8 Pro

TimeTraveller
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  78
Posts :  3204
Posted : Oct 27, 2016 17:57
that's my very first website land on net with my new macbook air. The thing is it's still with el capitan on it, even though it's brand new. That's a bit of a downer for me right now.
Not sure if I should upgrade straight from the start to Sierra before installing all the stuff like cubase etc on El Capitan, or if its really a better option to install all that stuff and wait with an upgrade for another time.
I mean it cost all time, and I probably want use it longer than my PC.
..my old PC sucks really.. Of course at some point I will format this thing and make a new try/ use it for other stuff.           https://soundcloud.com/shivagarden/cosmotropics
frisbeehead
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :  10
Posts :  1352
Posted : Oct 28, 2016 18:08
I'd just try it with El Capitan, as that's the recommendation from Steinberg themselves. They've specifically said not to update to Sierra until further notice. This is also valid for a lot of plug-ins.

I know it's specially a downer for people with newly bought computers - which is something I've addressed previously.

My advice would be to stay on your current OS until you've seen enough evidence that it's safe to move. Both from Steinberg and other third party developers whose products you make use of.

Well, and just relax and enjoy making some music now. This stuff is something to think about, not meant to be a show stopper by any means
TimeTraveller
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  78
Posts :  3204
Posted : Oct 28, 2016 19:58
Thanks buddy sounds good , I stick to El Capitan than.           https://soundcloud.com/shivagarden/cosmotropics
TimeTraveller
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  78
Posts :  3204
Posted : Oct 30, 2016 16:37
the best thing is that it all what I missed so badly works now. I was really sure that my midi keyboard gave up its lifeflight since Windows always had discovered it,it just worked for a few seconds and than it always went off automaticaly.... that was really a big downer for me. So I thaught no matter if a new mac comes to play I will need a new keyboard for sure.

I had looked into midi drivers in WIndows and all was listed etc.It even shows up in Cubase but in red.. and the new drivers are installed, as previously said. Dunt really know why, I also do not want to say that windows is bullshit system and worse but here it really is something I never ever will buy again in my entire life.
I still have the same problems on PC. At some point I really have no other choice then to format this damn thing and reinstall a new Windows again. Bad thing of it is that I have no copy anywhere, it was just installed on the PC. Actually I had some CD's to restore it but cannot find anymore, probably I was so dumb and threw away, cuz thought I won't need them anymore - and I tend to get rid of things I think I wont need in future way to quickly than I should.

I guess I will need to organize myself now a cracked windows version lol. Anyhows I am so fucking happy to make again music without any probs! And my keyboard works yay!! ALthough a 13inch MOnitor is sth else than 2 monitors of a big size. Still good as a fuck!
          https://soundcloud.com/shivagarden/cosmotropics
frisbeehead
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :  10
Posts :  1352
Posted : Nov 11, 2016 20:50
Good to have you back on board.

You can probably go full Apple and get yourself some dongle (they're now at a big discount due to them having made them so much more looked-after... ahem) to use your big size monitors along with the new mac.

About the windows license. You probably have one that came along with the pc, right? Nowadays, every tech company has dispensed with including the good old manuals and, now, even a sticker with the (god darn) serial on it. But if you contact Microsoft's support, I believe they'll have to guide you through the process. And let's hope that's not a very complicated process in and of itself.

Now, not that I wish to contribute to the mac vs pc debate any more. Specially now that they're in a war against normal connections that most people - and specially pros - depend on; but I've always found it easier and less convoluted to install and configure external stuff on the mac then on a pc. In part, that's not to blame microsoft, with a much more diversified system comes the need to make it work with almost every configuration possible and that's always asking for trouble.

They could, however, be a little more wise and dispense with the circus of anual major OS updates, which is sure to make everything unstable, make developers angry, make people have less performance and feeling like they have to waste more money 'cause those in charge of making things work are actually more focused in making them worse just so that the share holders can get their way with even more profits. And it's a spiritual revelation to know that they hardly pay any taxes for any of this. I mean, it wouldn't be fair to charge taxes on forced labour or modern slavery or would it?

When you think about it, it's hardly surprising that so much of what we took for granted is actually turning into a frightening circus these days. I'd say that people on Silicon Valley really should just give it some deep thoughts and change ways. But then, who am I kidding? The self-entitled geniuses aren't exactly the type to recognize their mistakes. Yet, something tells me that even facebook should worry a bit more with more then generating traffic but on its quality and its impact - just some thoughts from an otherwise quite quiet observer (don't mind me).

I don't think it's a good strategy for DAW developers to make anual updates as well. I think it would be best for them to focus on solving the problems with their current offerings, and design their road maps with their user's best interests in mind rather then trying to cope with the demands of a market that's done plenty to sink itself on its own beyond recognition and - quite frankly - hasn't even begun to solve itself properly. Costumers are the ones providing for all of this, are the ones depending on this to make their own work to cope with this mess that's mostly generated by the ones trying to sell them stuff, trying to manipulate them into accepting things that are insulting, trying to pass on the blame and expecting numb accordance... I could go on.

If only someone would make something nearly as functional as Cubase for Linux, we could all just show them the middle finger and Trump their releases.

Are you sure you want to empty the Trump basket?

Yes please.
frisbeehead
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :  10
Posts :  1352
Posted : Nov 23, 2016 22:00
It seems like Cubase is already compatible with latest "mac OS" version. Check here:

https://www.steinberg.net/nc/en/support/knowledgebase_new/show_details/kb_show/macos-sierra-steinberg-software-compatibility-information.html

You'd still need to check all other plug-ins, software and hardware for compatibility first.




TimeTraveller
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  78
Posts :  3204
Posted : Nov 29, 2016 03:44
Im still on el capitan and maybe I let it as it is but that's good to know           https://soundcloud.com/shivagarden/cosmotropics
frisbeehead
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :  10
Posts :  1352
Posted : Nov 30, 2016 20:31
Yes, also staying on Yosemite. It's the best for me, considering all things: I can't move much backwards, 'cause some stuff would stop functioning well, like the god darn Apple mouse, which may be absolutely terrible if you want to use it to play games, for example, but that shines on two things that are the deal for me: moving fast inside a daw's arrangement window (and quickly and firmly zoom in on stuff), some plug-ins that don't stretch back more then 3 OS versions from the current one - which is more then understandable - and so forth, you get the idea. Currently able to still run Logic 9, which I have to because I have some of my best projects made with it, that I'm planning on mixing properly now, git it a few more tweaks and...

I had to change my graphics pen due to this OS updating mess, they've decided the one I had, which was more then fine for me, actually, was to old to get the special attention of a dedicated driver. Updates just keep making one's life better, it's hard not to notice it.

I admit that I'm a bit curious as to whether they've solved their audio related issues by now or not. I think everything's working ok for me now, I run without crashes except for the weird time a plug-in goes weird on you. I manage to get good track count numbers without the system threatening to collapse, and overall it feels snappy and responsive enough to just go for it. But I somehow still feel like Snow Leopard was the time where things were working properly and it all somehow went downhill from there onwards.

Maybe a new Cubase is soon to be announced. I'd really like them to just add the freaking bezel curves to the animation. Makes life real easy as I was reminded of when using Logic last week with a friend. It just makes more sense. Aside from that, and I'm aware of their questioning of clients and that they've collected what was labeled as top requested features. It's interesting, you can tell that the costumer base is a good and geeky one; much more so then with Logic, where you'd have some "official" foruns where the admins were akin to those genius assistants on Apple's stores, always ready to help you out, but somehow it always felt like you're talking with a bot like Siri, who's programmed not to accept even the slightest possibility that some things like "not being able to transpose audio regions directly on the inspector" was a shortcoming (the word isn't found in their brain's dictionary) that's extraordinary to have on a DAW of such league. Besides, it's not like Apple would ever consider asking anyone about anything, much less ask clients about what changes they feel are the most urgent things to implement. But it feels right. As we're moving to another kind of relationship with these companies, where for keeping the pace of updates and features, one has to dispense with just about 100 a year - aka subscription model instead of buy and its yours model - it sort of feels like the right thing to base some decisions and road maps on the needs of the population that's actually using the darn thing daily.

Let's see what's on the menu, I guess.
frisbeehead
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :  10
Posts :  1352
Posted : Dec 8, 2016 12:33
Version 9 is out.

Has any of you jumped on it yet?

The list of new features feels a little slim, perhaps in line with expectations, since they went into the trouble of implementing some of the most requested (some people say in due for a long time) features by users, namely the sampler track and undo capabilities for the mixer.

New layout also seems nice. Just not sure about the new "plug-in sentinel" feature. I'm ok with them removing support for 32 bit plug-ins, which has been announced previously and seems like the way to move forward anyways. That's not a problem. I'm just not sure whether or not this will also target other plug-ins and based on what criteria.

So yeah, may hit that "buy" button and see how it goes soon. Still nice to have 8.5 to get back to if things don't feel as smooth with the new one. Cheers
TimeTraveller
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  78
Posts :  3204
Posted : Dec 10, 2016 13:55
For me it's too much for what it is. 100 Euro for this all is not convincing me for now. I better wait until some sort of discount, that certainly will appear at some point, and jump then on the bandwaggon.
It's pitty they still didn't added some bezier curves.
Sth like this would be nice : http://easings.net/en
+ being able to move the waves as elegant as it's solved out in Ableton.
The sampler is nice I think I'd like it, but minus here for me is that you aren't able to switch through the files , with an arrow or sth like this, on the go, while the beat is running. For example it would be great to listen through you kickdrums while the whole arrangement is running.
I'd like to see here a function like in Reasons' Redrum.
The EQ seems like the shit. Linear phase yeah! Also it is possible to switch only one band in Linear mode and the others not, sth could be good for phase shit , well this is unique.
The maximizer is now killer, no need for another more expenisve like ozone now, it's not anymore a toy as it sill is in 8,5. Its grown up and proffesional juicy plug in now. After years they revolutionized the auto pan again which is a useful thing again. The older was simply useless for me since you could do all quite quick just with the mouse. In the new one you can create much complex curve-patterns.

Mutliple marker tracks? I do have a few projects , where I have a lot of markers, in one even 11 but I see no necesseary to have more tracks for markers in my personal workflow, although it could be quite good in some professional situation like sound for a film or just everything that could need a few alternatives in arrangement to find out the best or to be able to offer someone to chose his best etc.

Anyway for me it's a small downer that Cubase asks for money way to quick and imo too much.
Where is the super cubase synthesizer a reasonable FM synth with operators or some Physical Modeling monster like Sculpture for so many years is? I'd pay at once if something like this would appear in an upgrade for 100 e's

all in all I stick to what I have for now and wait for a better price a few month later.
          https://soundcloud.com/shivagarden/cosmotropics
frisbeehead
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :  10
Posts :  1352
Posted : Dec 10, 2016 18:44
I eventually got it two days ago. It feels much more stable and reliable then back when 8 came out, that's for sure. I haven't had a single crash with this one - even though I'm taking my time setting things up now and not really into full blown production with huge track counts right now, so I'm yet to perform a decent stress test to it.

Maybe it's down to the new plug-in sentinel or something, but it feels as though this is an update from 8.5 as far as stability goes, so far (knocks on wood).

The only two bugs I've ran across were a tendency for the midi region on the arrange window to glitch its appearance for a while while changing midi notes on the new "lower region" editor and sometimes, but very rare, an odd "no sound at all" problem - I've had this happen to me the first time while testing their new EQ, when I turned on the high pass filter. Then again changing some option on the new sampler thing.

Reading this, you'd be tempted to think it's just another one of those bug festivals we're used to have with new versions. But it's not. I actually think they didn't add many new features due to this. The software feels snappy and stable from the get go.

I really liked their new EQ. Even the option to inverse the gain from positive to negative feels so logical that it's almost silly not to have it elsewhere (and hence why we double click and type). Besides the lovely interface and all the modern features packed together, it does sound very good to my ears.

I'm enjoying the new sampler track. The interface is easy enough to find your way around in seconds. So it integrates seamlessly. I just can't help thinking they could and perhaps should add more to it. Maybe that's due to me coming from Logic to Cubase and being used to the good old ESX24, but I could really use a more extensive modulation section for it. And I almost feel like talking to them directly, 'cause there's an empty space for these features as well, already in the program. On the left, where you have the inspector, when you turn on the low zone, there's an option between "track" which means the normal inspector you're used to having, and another option called "editor" which doesn't display anything for the sampler track (or the mixer for that matter) but could probably host these extra features.

Well, not really complaining or anything. You do have the option to transfer your newly created sampler instrument to groove agent SE or Halion (if you have the full version of it, which is not my case) and then you'd have all the modulation options. But I somehow feel like having a few available envelopes, not hard-wired to anything (currently you have your amp and filt envelopes), along with LFOs and a small modulation matrix would bring this to a new level. Something for a later update, perhaps.

I do agree about the curves, but I've read Steinberg reply to someone on FB that they're aware that people want this, but it would be akin to brain surgery to implement that. Well, some may think that's exactly what they're paid to do. Not an easy job? Hire more people. It's ridiculous for a DAW like this not to have this feature.

About Logic... Yeah they give you a lot for the money. But don't get me started on its shortcomings. For me Logic is great specially if you're using a lot of external gear. The mixer and routings is quite easy, the automation is great because of the curves, the included instruments are nice and some of the fx are good too. All nice and neat.

BUT the "smart" snap is simply not smart at all. It's annoying. It's so fucked up you feel there must be some cool way to cope with it, then you watch videos online and you realize it's just the way it is. You manage to get some work arounds, but it SUCKS.

The other thing that's specially wrong with Logic, which for me is a bit of a show stopper is the fact that you can't easily transpose audio regions with it. Unless you record your audio back to another track (that's right, you need to route one track's output to the new track's input), then you need to engage "follow tempo" and then you can transpose... That is up to the point where you engage flex pitch again = pufff gone. Why? Why?

Besides all that, Logic feels very nice, looks very nice and has come a long way - even the X version of it.

Cubase feels a bit more complete to me. The interface makes more sense and it somehow doesn't get in your way when you're editing stuff, can feel lightning fast working with it by simply using key commands - and that's what I want, for the software to help me make the most of my creative juices. As with everything, each to their own. I use both actually. That and Ableton, as I'm a sucker for generative music and modular weird stuff and all those max4live things have such an appeal to me that I find myself using it and exporting stuff. Same with Logic.

Then I find it much more comfortable to finish and properly produce with Cubase. The new marker tracks are great if you're working with complex projects, with huge track counts and want to be able to quickly export parts of it with more ease - or navigate between them. It makes sense.

But overall I agree with you. It's a lot of money. They take about 100 from their costumers a year and the whole VST transit thing... I don't know, feels like a rip off to me. They actually charge a lot for the cloud storage space. But I just don't use it. All Hail Dropbox!

Overall, the changes to the interface do make a difference in the workflow and I feel it's a good one. The EQ is great and so are the other revamped plug-ins (some of them it's just the cosmetics though). But I think this one was about the interface and cleaning up the software. It shows. Maybe their focus was also on stability because it certainly seems like it: when I first got 8, it was a mess; this one feels like a proper ready to use out of the box version. That's a huge difference.

Maybe they'll bring the new instruments and such fancy new things for their .5 update. The usual deal.

For me, personally, if they added the curves to automation, revamped all plug-ins (including high dpi support), made a proper full-screen solution for all workspaces and iron out the bugs, I'd be good.
frisbeehead
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :  10
Posts :  1352
Posted : Dec 11, 2016 18:08
Yeah, overall impressions with it is that it's working great and the new interface made a lot of sense from the get go. It's been quite a relief to no longer depend on those pop-ups that were added (and I liked it back then) to 8.5 - where the intention was great but the practical result failed short, specially when you add up the time one spends using the program.

I didn't enjoy seeing that it requires such a recent version of Mac OS (but I'm running it fine with Yosemite), but you can't really blame that on Steinberg as things are hard enough as it is. Like we've discussed here many times over, the recent trend of anual OS updates means that those behind it, in a way that's progressively becoming more clear to anyone, are pushing everyone - including developers - to adopt the new versions. As a side note, but very illustrative of this claims, the next generation of both Intel and AMD chips will only run on Windows 10 (latest version of it), thus forcing everyone to adopt it if they want to keep the pace of incoming performance boosts. This situation isn't ideal, of course, and there's a slight chance they may eventually review this decision, like they've done on other occasions.

Of course such a situation may eventually make the case for how important it has become to continually update the programs for current platforms without having the time to implement several new features, just barely reaching a more shy and pragmatic road map. I think it shows a bit. On top of that, we're currently finishing the transition from x86 to x64 on all major DAWs. So, at least from now on there's only one version of Cubase that Steinberg (and others) have to worry about - instead of two, like it was up until v9. This may make a huge difference!

With Cubase, it doesn't take more then the fully scalable interface to cope with the high dpi monitors, a fully workable full screen option for both Windows and Mac, finishing the update to all other plug-ins, both in graphic terms and functionality - similar to what others are currently doing with their own DAWS, pretty much all of them except for more recent ones like Studio One, that took the lead on this features, due to the fact that with a new program that was written from scratch it's much easier to integrate such features - even touch screen functionality.

One has to give some credit to Image Line on this, though, as they've beaten the likes of Steinberg and Ableton on the pace they're able to implement such changes - despite them charging much much less then the others for all of it, and this is an understatement!

Can't really complain though. I even feel a bit spoiled now. There's only the Bezier Curves remaining in my wish list. I think I'm a bit less demanding, overall, then some of Cubase's users. I couldn't help noticing the amount of prejudice on the comments on Steinberg's official release post on Facebook. Some people seem to think that they're the Kings of the universe and all others should just accept that their job is to fulfill each of their demands and dreams without a second thought. All in all, they've invented this game and they still kick some serious ass at it. They've asked users what features they'd want to see implemented and they've added most of them and even explained why they couldn't offer us the automation curves just yet. And it makes sense.

When comparing the price of Logic with Cubase, one has to remember that Logic only runs with the most expensive of all dongles: the mac! That's why they went from having a similar protection scheme, with a usb dongle, for Logic 7, the first Apple-only version and the only one for which there's no available crack. And then they decided to drop this, despite it working flawlessly, for other versions. Why? They're ok with you downloading and using Logic as long as you keep buying their hardware. Still not sure? You can download all the content from their servers, directly from Logic, even without paying anything. Think it's that hard for them to know that thousands of people are doing this? Not at all. They just don't care. It doesn't byte them. They have several other ways of getting people's money. If you equate all this, Logic doesn't feel as cheap anymore.


TimeTraveller
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  78
Posts :  3204
Posted : Dec 12, 2016 03:43
I'm absolutely fine with Cubase as it is, even as it was.
It's a beautifuly professional hardcore daw that leaves no big dreams if any.

I just don't like the fast pace between the payment upgrades and what they demand for what it then really is. Some of this progress would fit more into an for free update imo. For sure they have pressure to make money.
They have a really huge proffesional team that certainly costs too. I heard they sometimes get up to 20 people to work on one simple improvement. An improvement in an already existing feature.

Logic hasn't demanded any payment upgrade for long years I think. Long break from version 9 to X. 5 long years I think, or probably even more. That's also an interesting contrast in terms of their product policy when regarding Cubase and Logic both.

For me all of them Logic, Cubase, Protools is a must have anyways since most pro studios use one of them and I want to be up to date with this knowledge. This times, I use almost only Cubase and Renoise though. Need to update to new Logic and really wanna jump on the Protools bandwaggon again. I often use it similar as you mentioned too - working in a different daw and at the final stage moving to Cubase.


          https://soundcloud.com/shivagarden/cosmotropics
frisbeehead
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :  10
Posts :  1352
Posted : Dec 12, 2016 19:08
Yes, and I agree with you. It almost feels like paying a rent. It's very close to a full subscription model. I wouldn't necessarily feel this way if the price wasn't as high. Because I think that most major software companies these days are doing it mainly because they had to adapt their own road maps to that of the likes of Apple and Microsoft; or, in other words, they have to because those are the challenges that they know beforehand that they're facing down the road and they need to ensure that their products are compatible with the latest iterations of Operating Systems, so people who get new computers can readily install the software - it affects sales and the brand image.

Maybe things will eventually slow down a bit more after the new technologies are more fully adapted. There's a concern among tech companies that many people feel that what they have is already good enough. And of course it is. The problem they have with it isn't just connected to the need to sell more products. It's much more to do with being able to stop supporting older platforms - specially, like it's the case, when there's severely different architectural changes taking place and it's really a nightmare to cope with everything if you don't start turning things obsolete.

And I think that also explains the difference why Apple can go about Logic the way they do, not really caring if they profit a lot from it or not, not really caring if it's shared easily across the web or not. Because their stores alone are making much more money for them then Logic or any other Pro App they sell. These are just ways of getting more people on board, buying macs from them. That and their brand image, it's good for them to have an exclusive professional DAW that's revered and used in a lot of studios.

But it's quite a stretch to compare them with anyone else. I mean, they've bought Camel Audio and later introduced Alchemy to Logic, free of charge. Can you picture any other company that would be able to do such a thing? One needs a lot of money to pull out such a thing.

Of course they can. They also give you a lot of perfectly good software the moment you buy a mac. I mean, GarageBand is not a joke. Even the Iphone one. They keep using it as a beta test for new features, like the Drummer Tracks and soon to be introduced (already present in iOS) same capability for other kinds of instruments, including strings, piano, horns, so forth and so on. Along with their own version of Clips.

Plus, they enjoy a very unique situation in that they can plan everything, from the OS to other software to system requirements as they wish - since they really have a hand on all of it like no other company in the planet has.

But they're only generous with those who can afford to pay the premium price they charge for their hardware. It's an exclusive system: you get all that stuff, provided you continue to pay their premium. You also have to be ready for them to start removing things without warning. Things like: the ability to burn cds, previously present on Logic Studio Suite (one dedicated app for that, that's simply gone); firewire connections, now usb; basically everything that doesn't fit their own agenda or doesn't rhyme with what they're on about in their stores.

And to be honest: I've already put some money on Steinberg's pocket. For sure. But I've put a whole of a lot more on Apple's hands. And I've had some bitter moments with Apple, I've overpaid for some tech support, like 500 for a much much obsolete nvidia card on my imac - that's just one example I have.

All things considered, Apple gives you some peace of mind, can afford some stuff others surely can't, but I doubt that they're as dedicated to their pro costumer base as companies that only just do that - even though this would imply some kind of praise for Adobe which isn't what I want XD.

Never really got into Pro Tools. What's pushing you towards using it again? Curious.

frisbeehead
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :  10
Posts :  1352
Posted : Dec 20, 2016 21:17
Ok, some time has passed.

Only ever had a crash. Using it every single day since I bought it. Guess that says a lot.

Enjoying the new Sampler Track more then I thought I would. Guess everything gets a whole lot more interesting combined with the special midi powers of Cubase. Either that or I'm very much into that sort of thing myself. But the speed at which you're able to come up with stuff is unprecedented due to this simple addition.

The interface also feels a lot more comfortable and fast. I'm also jumping back to Cubase 5 for joint work, and although things are pretty much the same as far as the actual arranging and editing goes, the other areas of it have clearly been revamped beyond recognition. This is true about a lot of things, but mostly the mixer and the channel editor - and all the bells and whistles that you find there nowadays. It's not that any of that is going to have a direct impact on the results, that's clearly not the case. It's just going to impact the accessibility in quite surprising ways. Everything's just easier to reach for and use.

I've seen some of my plug-ins fell in the blacklist now. It wasn't anything dramatic. You can really feel that the program loads faster, both itself and your projects and overall it feels very stable. So if this new "sentinel" thing is what's providing this, then I'm more then happy for its existence.

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