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Trance Forum » » Forum  North America - Burners vs. Trancers

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Burners vs. Trancers

DJ Uhm


Started Topics :  7
Posts :  147
Posted : Jul 10, 2008 17:12:10
I need some help understanding something. There's a strong burner community throughout the whole state of Texas. There's four different burner events a year that I can think of off the top of my head, and those are just the really big ones. My question is what is the big hold up of these two communities meshing somehow? I will be honest and say that I am not a part of the burner community, but I would assume they uphold some of the same ideals and principles that you find in the psy-scene.

Everything that I have been told, and seen in small doses, says that the burners don't want trancers around. I have heard of issues at BM because of this as well. What's the frigging problem. It seems that both scenes promote oneness and love, but in the end it seems to be a "your doing it wrong" syndrome that the burners give off. That's not to say that trancers are without blame, but seriously wtf gives?!?!           Brian - Uhm
Atrium Obscurum
www.atriumobscurum.com
DiMiTry
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  70
Posts :  2299
Posted : Jul 10, 2008 18:22
just because people take psychedelics and such doesn't mean they will necessarily like psytrance.

a lot of burners just don't like trance. in fact, many burners don't like electronic music at all and many have horrible taste in music.


that said, in Colorado there's always lots of psytrance at burner parties and vice versa, because historically so many psy dj's have been involved in building the burner scene here. it seems to be an isolated case though.

          ..it's just another party..
pete
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  32
Posts :  534
Posted : Jul 10, 2008 18:38
I wondered the same thing for many years. Over time, I have come to think that the similarities between burners and trancers are very superficial, and the communities are in fact very different. (at least in Texas...perhaps this isn't true in other regions)

My experience with burn events has been that there is a very heavy social motivation for the attendants, and beyond that, a notable amount of people go there to meet people to have sex with. This is a far cry from losing yourself in crazy music that makes you more freaked out.

Frankly, I would not want most of the people at Texas burns to go to psy parties...it really messes up the vibe when there's people at the party whose motivation for being there isn't to have the psytrance experience.

We've had burners at the Fugu parties who made fun of the "ravers" ie everybody else at the party, to my face, and then said they would keep coming to our parties as long as we had them at that location. (recplant) When I related this story to Aaron from Init String, he said this crew came with a sexual agenda.

That said, I believe that the best psy parties always incorporate the best elements of the burn events-the gift culture, creativity and art, self sufficiency, diy, leave no trace, etc. The Pine Barrens parties have been one of the best examples of this I've experienced.

Of course, there are many people that enjoy the burns and psy parties. But they seem to know who they are, and I would advise against trying to get the burners in general to attend the Texas psy parties-it's a round peg in a square hole imo.

Just my two cents.
GyPsynate
GyPsy

Started Topics :  29
Posts :  687
Posted : Jul 10, 2008 19:51
This is how I see it...

Its a love hate relationship.
BM has always tried to make its self look as much like a wholesome art festival as possible to the outside world.I dont think that the Psy community cares as much about that,we dont have a reputation to up hold.We are not in the main media as much either so ...

The two communities are like siblings, we fight a lot but we still love each other.Its Family!
          \\\"Invoking the inner dancing buddha with future frequencies from beyond\\\" ~GyPsy
D-A-R-K Rec, Anomalistic Rec.
Cerebral Theater
http://www.molecular.cc/GyPsy/
DJ Uhm


Started Topics :  7
Posts :  147
Posted : Jul 10, 2008 20:40
DiMiTry.....I am not sure where you got the taking of psychedelics, because that wasn't what I was talking about at all. I was talking about principles, the things the cultures stand for specifically in how they view others around them. Taste, especially in music, is very subjective so that comment was senseless.

Pete......being from Texas you know what I am speaking of and you have seen this yourself as well. Okay so maybe the big issue here is just the people and their individual motivations for being a part of a certain community. From the stance of DIY, leave no trace, & creativity/art I certainly feel that both burners and trancers uphold these thoughts. I just don't see why, at least here, they can't be incorporated into the scene. Maybe this is the hippie coming out of me....I just don't see why we can't all get along, lol. If its differences in music, then fine.....if not, then anyone can be told what the trance dance experience is. Thanks for your thoughts, Pete. It's a shame we won't see you for "The Lion's Roar", but I wish you all the best on the bar examine           Brian - Uhm
Atrium Obscurum
www.atriumobscurum.com
damon
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  88
Posts :  2122
Posted : Jul 10, 2008 23:58
My thoughts based on what I've seen here in Chicago:

- BM parties offer more for average participant (diversified music, art, interactive activities, performances etc)

- most burners come to the party to socialize, meet old and new friends not because of music - they come and have fun regardless what kind of music is being played (they don't care anyway)

- IMHO for huge portion of the crowd psytrance would be to hard/to monotonous

- and for some reason those people who are booking djs for BM parties here don't book psytrance although we are usually able to incorporate "chill stage" into those events


We have some burners that come to our psytrance events and vice versa although I don't see any noticeable growth.


          http://www.chillumafia.com
DiMiTry
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  70
Posts :  2299
Posted : Jul 11, 2008 02:29
Quote:

On 2008-07-10 20:40, DJ Uhm wrote:
DiMiTry.....I am not sure where you got the taking of psychedelics, because that wasn't what I was talking about at all. I was talking about principles, the things the cultures stand for specifically in how they view others around them. Taste, especially in music, is very subjective so that comment was senseless.




i guess i should be more clear.

really the only similarity i see between the two is the psychedelic urge. i think originally the symbiosis of burning man and psytrance in the mid-90s came from the common desire to expand consciousness and the boundaries of reality. and yes, both cultures love drugs and tend to consume vast quantities of them.


otherwise, there are more differences that similarities:

burning man is all about interpersonal interaction and evolution of society, while psytrance focuses more on the individual journey.

most psy parties are not really based on participation, people come to the party to dance, and expect to be entertained. burning man, in its original idea, requests total participation from everyone. plus psy culture is often asexual vs burning man is extremely sexual and outwardly expressive in that way - both straight and gay.

psy is very insular and close-minded towards other genres/modes of musical expression (usually it's a psy-only party or nothing) while burners are used to having all sorts of variety, have very short attention span, and crave different styles of music all the time. many burners are pretty much bored by the constant never changing beat and bpm of psytrance.

as i said earlier, many burners don't even like electronic music, and many more don't like trance. i think the opposition to being around psytrance comes more from disliking the music than disliking the actual trancers, from what i've seen. even though both have the 'i'm the best thing ever and only i can save the world' complex' so why shouldn't they be able to get along better, right?           ..it's just another party..
mono mono
Onnomon

Started Topics :  5
Posts :  314
Posted : Jul 11, 2008 02:53
Quote:

On 2008-07-11 02:29, DiMiTry wrote:

another trait that the two have in common is the feeling of self-importance - both believe that they are the best thing ever, everyone needs to experience it and people who don't like it just 'don't understand' because how can they not like it otherwise..




heh heh...pathetically funny but true.

I've been 6 burns now.

From many of the trance festivals i've been to I wouldn't say that "leave no trace" is a strong mindset directive for the crowd. Of course there might be a difference between the east coast crowd and the rest of the country. Also, burners tend to be more self-sufficient, by necessity. Here on the east coast you'll be amazed at how many people can't get themselves to a trance party because of lack of transportation, or the ability to rustle up transportation.

So we had a Colorado crew (Amoeba Funk) come to the Gaian Mind festival. They are veteran burning man attendees, they drove across the US, with Uhaul in tow. Had the complete base-camp operation along with their band equipment...cowboy hats off to you guys!!! I don't see trancers doing this stuff, not even the trance festival vendors!!! BTW there's no vending at burning man (coffee and ice excepted).

I just find it difficult to compare some sort of overall ethos between the two, other than the few folks with a foot in both, and that's an interesting blend. I've met enough trancers who've gone to burning man and say they won't go back. So it works both ways.

To me it appears there's loads more assholes at BM, people you wouldn't want to trust. Not generally a problem at a trance affair.

The art and music at BM is vastly wider in scope than the trance scene. There's plenty of psytrance around BM (usually in personal camp sites) although the number of times it's pumping on big systems have decreased a bit over the years.

I think the better merger is the hippy/jam festival circuit and psytrance. Seems like the only scratch-in-the-bucket is this whole disco biscuits/hallucinogen thing. Plenty of room for more, consider this- loads of people drugged up late-night, when most or all of the stages have shut down, that 500 person circus tent with about 15KW would be packed, even at a 5000 person jamband festival- i'll bet you.


-dean
OpenSourceCode
Datavore

Started Topics :  26
Posts :  660
Posted : Jul 11, 2008 04:58
absolutely no disco biscuit tree thuggers will be tolerated. fuck that. i don't need the stress.
vector_0
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  113
Posts :  1189
Posted : Jul 11, 2008 05:47
we're too real for the burners           http://soundcloud.com/rob-vector
DiMiTry
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  70
Posts :  2299
Posted : Jul 11, 2008 07:40
Quote:

On 2008-07-11 02:53, mono mono wrote:
Seems like the only scratch-in-the-bucket is this whole disco biscuits/hallucinogen thing. Plenty of room for more




Ott toured with the New Deal (a jam band) and some glitch-hoppers for a little while in the spring.
          ..it's just another party..
damon
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  88
Posts :  2122
Posted : Jul 11, 2008 17:29
Quote:

On 2008-07-11 05:47, vector_0 wrote:
we're too real for the burners




LOL           http://www.chillumafia.com
karmakanik
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  19
Posts :  658
Posted : Jul 11, 2008 17:29
we've had some limited success integrating the burner and psytrance scenes here in philly.

however i think there's a (mis?)perception in the trance community there are a lot of people out there who would "get" psytrance, but they just havn't been properly exposed to it yet. we've definitely exposed a lot of burners to trance, and although a lot of them "get" it, i think as Dimitry pointed out a lot of them just don't like it. furthermore, i've talked to a few burners who are more amenable to trance, and sometimes listen to the hallucinogen/infected mushroom/shpongle kind of thing, and even these people are frequently turned off by the more dark and aggressive variety of trance being played at trance parties.

when i have djed at burner events, i usually play more on the progressive side, and i find most burners are more open to this style, probably since it is closer to the house/breaks/electro etc. with which they are more familiar.

while i still believe there are a lot of potential "trance recruits" out there in the burning man scene, like others have said, most burners are just looking for a good time, and whereas for us the music is the primary focus of a party, for them it is usually just a background for other goings on.
BrettFromTibet
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  61
Posts :  749
Posted : Jul 11, 2008 17:37
As much as I LOVE psychedelic trance, I have to say that the US burners are "more fun" and know how to party better.

In the USA...There is this weird / nerdy / redneck / heavymetal / blue collar trance vibe kind of like Otto-the-bus-driver on 'da psytrance dancefloor... more so than most other countries.

Burners see psytrance as "not sexy, fun, cosmopolitan"... more geeky, anemic, serious, skanky.... and they most definitely don't like non-groovy, industrial 155 b.p.m. audio assaults that have been part of the landscape since 2003 or so. Just one evil Bulgarian night track is enough to leave a bad taste and turn some people off to "all psytrance" FOREVER.

the burning man crowd.. the jet set Playa people from SF and Maui (not the "regional burn" locals grilling bacon and drinking beer)... tend to extremely upper class / good looking / rich / elite .. and they have some of the "shallow" vibes and standard trappings that accompany any such gathering of upper-crust people (wine bars, country clubs, classy swinger parties) where psychedelic / ego-loss isn't ingrained into the culture.

----
disclaimer: I am a nerdy psytrance freak.
jds


Started Topics :  8
Posts :  384
Posted : Jul 11, 2008 21:36
I still consider myself new to California but since no one else has piped up I'll throw in my observations.

From what I've seen, things are pretty crossover around socal? I've heard nothing but good things about the GreenMoon camp last year. All the "burners" (finger quotation hand sign) I've met have all been at psy events. They've all been fun cool people in my books and I'm glad to know them. I don't frequent 'dark' oriented parties though. From the people I've met there's a mix. Some were into various freak cultures including psy and eventually ended up at burning man, while others lived the straight and narrow their whole lives until burning man and now they explore other areas like psy events.

Likely a proximity thing but I think most freak subcultures around the southwest probably have a heavy burning man crossover crowd.

So that's the view I have from what I'm interested in looking outward. From the other perspective, I'm not really into burning man myself. So should I be going out of my way to cross over into that culture? I have no ill will or negativity towards it but I'm not really interested. I've considered attending regional events like LiB and Elysium but to be honest there are aspects of "burner" culture that don't jive with who I am as a person (pseudo names, pseudo appearances, weekend winnebago freaks, etc. it's just too many mixed messages for me). I don't want to conform to that ethos just to make sure I'm not making someone else uncomfortable in their scene. (does that make any sense? it's not intended as negative, I see this as my issue) And as far as attending burning man itself, the required time, money, and energy just goes further focused elsewhere for me.

There's been a lot of talk in this thread about burners and why they aren't into psy. What about trancers? Why aren't more of them into burning man? (or are they, is it just me?) What can happen within burner culture to make it more appealing to trancers?

Interesting thread, I'm glad it hasn't gotten ugly.
Trance Forum » » Forum  North America - Burners vs. Trancers

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