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astral smastral
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madmardigan
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
63
Posted : Jun 25, 2004 01:58
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Surrender
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
506
Posts :
5388
Posted : Jun 25, 2004 02:04
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mubali
Mubali
Started Topics :
71
Posts :
2219
Posted : Jun 25, 2004 02:45
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What is wrong multi-genre cross pollination??? Each of the headliners on that lineup are some of the best in their genre. Why not let the jungle fans and the Hard Dance fans and the Psytrancers all play together??? I kinda get the feel from madmardigan's post that he feels that there is some reason why these three genres can't be at the same event.
I started out playing fluffy trance, moved to jungle, experimented with Hard Dance, all finally found psytrance. I still have an affinity for all of these other genres as well as breakz and house and techno, and I am certain that psytrancers can have an open mind about the other genres. I may feel that psytrance is the genre of music that I love the most, but I can definitely get down to some other genres. This might be a slightly inflammitory comment, but madmardigan's comment does feel a little elitist... All music is supposed to bring people together, not just the ones who listen to the same music or dress the same.... (See the South Park episode where Wendy dumps Stan for Token)
  An Eagle may soar, but Weasels don't get sucked into jet engines. |
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DJAmanita
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
31
Posts :
236
Posted : Jun 25, 2004 03:33
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Looks like good fun to me! No need to be elitist. In the USA we need to find ways to spread our sounds to a wider base of people. It is the only way to grow as a community. Not everyone likes the intergration that Nick is trying to create at some of his events, however some feel it is one of the best ways to bring this beautiful music to more hearts and minds in this country. Most of these people will have never heard PSyTrance. I bet that they will like it when they do  |
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madmardigan
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
63
Posted : Jun 25, 2004 03:39
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me an elitist, No!!!! 
all the evidence to the contrary is not entirely disuasive |
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nicktornetta
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
10
Posts :
81
Posted : Jun 25, 2004 04:00
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The model of this show does break away from traditional psychedelic/goa trance parties, however it is not a goa party. This is what I call a "PsyRave".
Mubali hit it right on the nose, with the point that each headliner is the best of their genre. This is exactly why the main room was structured this way. There are two other rooms, one of which featuring local Progressive, Drum and Bass and Trance talent. The other features some of the best in local Psychedelic Trance DJs. With all three rooms like this, people can choose to see the headliner they like, and retreat to their favorite area if they choose.
Yes, some people dont like this model. Some people dont like mixing "rave" culture with Psychedelic Trance/Goa culture. I think these people are forgetting where their roots are from. Most people, including myself got into some sort of electronica before even hearing Psy. For me, the introductory song years ago was "Love Inc - Broken Bones". I definitely am not into that type of circuit party/raved out house sound anymore, but I can still identify with it.
As Amanita stated, the US Psytrance scene needs some serious help. Talented artists like Ticon, Jirah, Psysex, Oforia, etc, that arent as big as an Infected Mushroom or Astral Projection are often just as talented and deserve more than 150 people on the dancefloor.
Dont let anyone fool you. The biggest that a local dj psy party gets around here is about 200 people, and the numbers are getting even smaller. How do we help curb this phenomena? Remember how YOU got into the music, and do what you can to offer that experience unto others. If you need to, hold your breath a bit.. suck it up.. and go to some larger electronic parties. Pass out flyers or even cds.. I know this works because Ive watched hardcore junglists become psytrance freaks, almost overnight.
For the last point.. Electronic music lovers are not as cynical as people who go to clubs for commercial rap/r&b. I played a friday night club once, which had about 300 people in the main rap/r&b room.. and ZERO in mine (and i was playing prog house). People would come in, and leave after dancing by themselves for 2 minutes. This doesnt happen at electronic parties, as these dancers arent scared to experience something new. People generally migrate between rooms.. dance for a while and sometimes find something that they like.
The good thing, that I have always loved about Psytrance, is how it can enter your mind and almost take over your thoughts.. almost intrusively.. but, you cant help but let it happen..
.. then you are hooked!  |
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DJAmanita
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
31
Posts :
236
Posted : Jun 25, 2004 04:05
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Quote:
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On 2004-06-25 03:39, madmardigan wrote:
me an elitist, No!!!!
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Sory for calling you elitist madmardigan perhaps that was premature.
Please tell us exactly what you see that is wrong with this picture.
I would truly love to know. |
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madmardigan
Started Topics :
7
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63
Posted : Jun 25, 2004 04:25
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very nicely put nick. i went to an oracle gethering a while back and it had a diverse range of musical styles and i remember quite enjoying it. the only reason i started this topic is just that i remember years ago while i was livin in israel astral projection was releasing a new album and they were playin sets at tower records. it would be rather hard to find any other dj associating themselves with psytrance playin at tower. so of all the psytrance acts that i would expect to be playin a show such as this one, with its broad range of genres, it would definately be astral. this is not to say that i have any less respect for them, they are pioneers and have been around forever so it almost makes sense. i for one will definately attend this show. |
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thegooddale
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
26
Posts :
626
Posted : Jun 25, 2004 18:44
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I think that this trend will bring alot of the negative elements of the American "rave" scene into the Pac NW psytrance scene... That is something I myself would not like to see happen... It seems to be one of the more thriving psytrance scenes in the US.
call me an elitist all you want, but there are many reasons why a psytrance party is enjoyable... and the fact that it is so seperated from "rave" culture is one of those reasons.
I think this is one of the main reasons people from other countries question whether or not people in the US "get it"... I mean, how psychedelic of an experience are Jon Bishop and AK1200 gonna provide... |
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mubali
Mubali
Started Topics :
71
Posts :
2219
Posted : Jun 25, 2004 20:26
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This is a very interesting coincidence... There have been several discussions on a local email list about psytrancers not being as friendly to those the don't already know as part of the "family". I can completely understand some of the reasons why the psytrance scene does not want to be associated with the negative connotations of the traditional "rave" scene. However very many people fail to realize that not everyone was raised on psytrance. As Nick stated, most people go through other genres to get to psytrance.... Now with that in consideration, where would you be if the collective that threw the first party that you heard psytrance at decided not to include anyone who wasn't in the "in" crowd in their festivities?
To be honest, psytrance really isn't separated from rave culture, psytrance just embraces the true ideals that started the rave culture, BEFORE capitalism mutated it into a fad. Money can take the most innocent thing and turn it into something that you can abhor...
But what psytrance seems to preach and claim is open-mindedness, and from the look of things it only applys to things that they approve of. Sounds like an oxymoron to me... As to how psychedelic of an experience are Jon Bishop and Ak1200 gonna provide? It depends on the individual. I find drum and bass to be psychedelic and due to the polyrhythmic roots of it, it is one of the true predecessors to the psychedelic trance that we have today... If you think I am bullshitting, listen to some of 4 Carry Nuts... Listen to Fungus Funk, Listen to GMS.... You will find elements of ALL other DANCE MUSIC genres in psytrance. I mean the new full on stuff is formatted just about the same way as hard dance music...
There are many reasons why a psytrance party is supposed to be enjoyable, and that is because the music and the vibe is supposed to encompass the true spirit of the underground music scene. If I wanted to be involved in a group that feels the best way to survive and keep its purity is to keep it to themselves, I would have joined the Illuminati.
Sorry for ranting, but this truly is something that I feel the psytrance scene really is getting bad about. I started doing events that feature multiple genres because I wanted all of my friends to enjoy themselves no matter what type of music they were into. I have done all psytrance events too, but when you break it all down... It's not the "rave Culture" that gives electronic music a bad name, it's stupid people that either have no clue how to throw a party or don't really care about the party and see it as a business venture that give all electronic music events a bad name.
An Eagle may soar, but Weasels don't get sucked into jet engines. |
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The Tree Tribe
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
36
Posts :
580
Posted : Jun 25, 2004 21:07
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Hmmmmmm......Astral Smastral..........
This "cross pollination" deal doesn't sound too good to me......People come to a goa party for the Goa experience......They don't want to just come, and hear (in this case) Astral Projection and then some jungle music, or hard house or some crap like that! They want goa, Goa and more GOA....!!! As many of you said, you found Psytrance after other electronic music, and thats why you don't mind listening to other forms of electronica. What about the goa heads who's first electronic experience was in GOA? Blasting away in the Disco Valley for 3 days straight with Gil on the set? However, I guess people like me are in the minority here in the NorthWest.
Also, I doubt serious Goa-Trancers would like to be in the same party with 16 yr old 'candy ravers'.
I sincerely hope that this isn't the scene at the Astral gig. |
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paradigm
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
54
Posts :
1098
Posted : Jun 25, 2004 21:29
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How many people in the Us scene started out in Goa? Comparativley very few i imagine. Most of us in the american scene are jaded old skool ravers who got sick of the negative parts of the general scene.
Though i love psy many genres still have alot to offer, and i agree with Mubali, psy borrows or steals if you will alot of it ideas and concepts from other forms of music and mutates it into its own.
Half of the new sounds that we go ga-ga for are recycled sounds from other genres, mostly Breaks, hard house and jungle. With out any of this what we love to hear would be very old, tired and stagnent.
I also feel multi-genre parties are a great way to introduce people to psy trance. However just because other genres are being played doesnt mean there will be 16 year old candy kids present. Granted Jon Bishop will probably bring that element but that doesnt have to be the case. I've fused breaks, jungle techno and tech-house together at parties before. Those genres along with psy tend to be the other "grown up" genres of electronic music. Meaning those also cater to people of a similar mindset who are there for the music and not the drugs or what have you. Less cheesy music = less druged up kiddies.....
and just to make a point....people in techno and jungle scenes tend to think us trancers do too many drugs ....and lump us into the same catagory we are lumping "16 year old candy kids" into.....
food for thought
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ZeRo
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
39
Posts :
802
Posted : Jun 26, 2004 01:32
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i wont speak for any form of house but for drumm nbass can be just as an intense musical experience as psytrance. besides one can have the full night of trance with the side and main room, which will cater to all. such a setup will satisfy both crossgenre seekers and purists.
drumnbass rulez. . .i find the breaks to be quite psychedelic and extremely intricate, keying in on the parts of the mind that trance does. maybe its a bit more intellectual at the pts at which trance is spiritual but. . .
enjoy
ein chadash tachat hashemesh. there is nothing new under the sun. --kohelet. |
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Cyzum
Cyzum
Started Topics :
77
Posts :
347
Posted : Jun 26, 2004 19:15
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I think cross genre pollenation is a good thing. Our last party we had DJ Icey play, and alot of people came out specifically to hear him. After he finished we started playing psytrance. Nobody left, in fact people danced and were screaming about 10 times harder.
Alot of people were introduced, and converted to the sounds of psytrance that night. So yeah, maybe ravers in general suck, but in America they are the largest audience of electronic music fans. |
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maddmaddworld
Started Topics :
0
Posts :
1
Posted : Jun 26, 2004 22:38
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Quote:
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On 2004-06-25 21:07, Geshtunkenfucked wrote:
Hmmmmmm......Astral Smastral..........
This "cross pollination" deal doesn't sound too good to me......People come to a goa party for the Goa experience......They don't want to just come, and hear (in this case) Astral Projection and then some jungle music, or hard house or some crap like that! They want goa, Goa and more GOA....!!! As many of you said, you found Psytrance after other electronic music, and thats why you don't mind listening to other forms of electronica. What about the goa heads who's first electronic experience was in GOA? Blasting away in the Disco Valley for 3 days straight with Gil on the set? However, I guess people like me are in the minority here in the NorthWest.
Also, I doubt serious Goa-Trancers would like to be in the same party with 16 yr old 'candy ravers'.
I sincerely hope that this isn't the scene at the Astral gig.
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With Gesh in this one....cant see myself dancing with the 'candy ravers'...
dont get me wrong..im not prejudiced..
oKKKK..whom i kiddin ...i am ..just a tinny bit tho...
like they say 'Different Strokes for Different FOlks'..
Its all good tho....spread the word..tho im not a huge fan of the cross pollination...
..call me an elitist..call me whatever...just that my first altering experience was in Goa!!!!..with Gil on the set...a long time ago..but sacred to me..and tons of other goaHeads..
But i do appreciate the idea of projecting to the masses...
BOOOM!!
____
*My mother used to say, "He who angers you, conquers you!" But my mother was a saint.*
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