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Aren't online mixes stolen music?
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EYB
Noized
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2849
Posted : Dec 6, 2005 08:04
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I see a lot of mixes here.
In all different kinds of psytrance are mixes online avaible, lot are promoted via this forum.
Do u see them as pirated music? U can get mixes in hq for free with track names etc. only difference to mp3 rips are that they are mixed together. Does the 'mix' change the situation?
What do u think?
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Forest dreams
IsraTrance Full Member
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107
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Posted : Dec 6, 2005 08:13
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this is an intresting topic...
yep...after giving it some thought, it does seem more or less like illegal. one can gain access to tracks without buying the album/compilation!(if you notice, genreally the best tracks from a compi would be used in a mix set!)
but i would not call it pirated music, coz these guys arent making money out of posting their mixes online, just gaining exposure/expiereince.
there is a similar discussion in the ambient section, you might get a few insights here. like how the person posting the mix should also give links to the artist website/ or a link to the compilation that the track is from!
http://forum.isratrance.com/viewtopic.php/topic/76198/forum/10
Nothing is said that has not been said before. |
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KakoOlalaJwal
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Dec 6, 2005 11:29
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On 2005-12-06 08:04, EYB wrote:
Do u see them as pirated music? |
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Well the mixes are usually maximum 192Kbps and the more often 128Kbps.. So I think it would be a bit of a shame to try to get the tracks in such a low quality and not in full.
Having said that, maybe some people don't care at all, yes.. But I don't think they're that much.
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On 2005-12-06 08:13, Forest dreams wrote:
there is a similar discussion in the ambient section, you might get a few insights here. like how the person posting the mix should also give links to the artist website/ or a link to the compilation that the track is from!
http://forum.isratrance.com/viewtopic.php/topic/76198/forum/10
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Well, besides playing only music I've bought, that's what I tried to do with the one I've suggested in the chill out section, at least for the records that are still available online. Then if some people want to know more about any tune I'll be here to give all the details I'm able to.
But now.. In France at least all this may change..
In the end of the month I will probably be seen as an outlaw because of the "DADVSI" law that will be discussed on december 22th.. I still have to read more about it, but it could mean amongst others the end of webradios and even the interdiction of private copies..
Will tell you more when I'll know more about it.
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Forest dreams
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Dec 6, 2005 11:41
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Quote:
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On 2005-12-06 11:29, KakoOlalaJwal wrote:
But now.. In France at least all this may change..
In the end of the month I will probably be seen as an outlaw because of the "DADVSI" law that will be discussed on december 22th.. I still have to read more about it, but it could mean amongst others the end of webradios and even the interdiction of private copies..
Will tell you more when I'll know more about it.
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wow! i dint know bout this!
whoo...this could bring about changes everywhere if passed as law!
Nothing is said that has not been said before. |
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Krell
IsraTrance Junior Member
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33
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1114
Posted : Dec 6, 2005 12:15
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Quote:
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On 2005-12-06 08:04, EYB wrote:
Do u see them as pirated music? U can get mixes in hq for free with track names etc. only difference to mp3 rips are that they are mixed together. Does the 'mix' change the situation?
What do u think?
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Well - I just decide for myself whether mixes are the same as pirating music - The TRUE deciding factor is the law.
The law says its music piracy and illegal, and I could get fines and perhaps even worse for doing it.
Now, the truth is - The artists featured in a mix set get promotion by being featured there - Artists do not get their income from selling CDs, but from liveacts - A good DJ featuring THEIR track in HIS mix will put a brand of quality onto their name that is in my eyes far more worth than any positive review they would get anywhere else. Afterall, any DJ would never have or get a good reputation by spinning music that essentially sucked. (as such, the DJ puts his neck on the line, far more than the reviewer who already got a CD to review for free from a label).
Afterall - A DJ set is the ultimate output of any DJs abilities (a demo), and only the best goes into a DJs set... At the end of the line, a DJs set is his art, and as such this is where he/she must excell.
So - In reality, there is a huge promotional value of a respected DJ using ones track in his set. This value of course declines along with how big the DJs name is - But I would say this to put things in perspective promotionwise, on www.saikosounds.com the preview clips of tracks are just about as long as the sections of tracks most beatmixing DJs mix together........
Artists getting promotion off the tracklists is the main reason I added them to one of my previous sets. It simply did not feel right to have a set online without the artists which were featured in it not getting any promotion out of it.
DJ & Artists engage together in a symbiotic relationsship, thats the way it has always been - Now the DJs prime role is to discard with the crap music and show people where the good stuff is. (and basicly help the artist build up their name so there will be demand for mainly live bookings + more releases which will lead to more bookings).
Best Wishes
Krell
Label DJ>
www.jesterrecords.ca |
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exotic
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Dec 6, 2005 12:49
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well explained krell
and why would you want to think of it as illegal .. probably they are mixing with original music .. at least the ones promoted on this forum .. and they are just sharing them to also show off their djing skills and track selection etc for promotional purposes ..
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Tundra
Hydraglyph
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Posted : Dec 6, 2005 13:17
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"Aren't online mixes stolen music"?
Of course they are. Whether you care about it or not is another matter.
A beer in the hand is worth 2 in the fridge
www.myspace.com/hydraglyph |
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Krell
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Dec 6, 2005 13:32
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I have a new angle on this - Isnt DJ mixes all in all stolen music ?
Since -
"All rights of the produced & of the owner of this recorded work reserved.
Unauthorized copying, hiring, lending, public performance & broadcasting of this record prohibited"
Standard copyright text from the Hallucinogen "Twisted" album.
I VERY seriously doubt that many party organizers pay tribute to any licensing firms at all. I actually did it, for my 2 first events (koda), back in 1995.
This can then be applied to the thousands of underground events etc all over the world.
Puts things in perspective I think.
Like Tundra writes "who cares?" - I think the people who stand to earn from it might care, but those are not present in the psy scene - Noone will earn money from upholding those laws & rights - Its VERY different in the mainstream scene.
If you, as a DJ, spin at a Koda Licensed venue here in Denmark, you better not be spinning pirated music since they do tests of what material DJs spin - Also, DJs can turn each other in, and are encouraged to do so if they see anyone spinning lots of CDRs.
Koda Licensed means the venue has a deal with Koda which uphold copyrights regarding licensing venues their approval to spin music covered by Koda. (AFAIK )
I know this goes for online radio broadcasts as well.
Best Wishes
Krell
Label DJ>
www.jesterrecords.ca |
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EYB
Noized
Started Topics :
111
Posts :
2849
Posted : Dec 6, 2005 14:53
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Now here are some nice points:
KakoOlalaJwal says 196 kbit is low quality, but as we now from the mp3 threat it is almost not possible to hear this if the mp3s are made with good codecs. And the mp3 groups, like mycel, ripping to 196kbit vbr and they say the same like u: 'It is not the real music, it is low quality version of it' but really a lot of people just think 'Hey it is free music! Internet for president' or something like this.
And now u could say 'Hey, this mp3 rippers are the best promotion for us the artists!', coz they rip the music into a lower quality and spread it faster then any distribution around the world.
And here is the conflict. As i see it at the moment for a lot of people are the mp3 groups bad, really bad people (official, they say here in the forum, while downloading the new releases) but they love the online mixes. I hope u see the point.
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Spindrift
Spindrift
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Posted : Dec 6, 2005 17:44
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For sure legally it's not much of a difference.
Unless the mix is streamed on webradio it would be classified as unauthorized duplication.
If the mixed is streamed royalty fees would have to be paid if the material contains tracks licensed with a copyright organization and otherwise it depends on the individual license the labels or artists in question use.
Morally I cannot say there is a whole lot of difference.
The arguments brought up here is in no way only applying to mixes.
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| i would not call it pirated music, coz these guys arent making money out of posting their mixes online, just gaining exposure/expiereince. |
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Mp3 release groups don't make profit. DJ's infact do many times and exposure for them can mean more gigs.
So I would say in that respect DJ's putting up mixes is actually worse.
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| Well the mixes are usually maximum 192Kbps and the more often 128Kbps.. So I think it would be a bit of a shame to try to get the tracks in such a low quality and not in full. |
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Most mp3 releases is 192k VBR, just as most mixes.
And most people cannot tell the difference between those and a wav.
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| The artists featured in a mix set get promotion by being featured there - Artists do not get their income from selling CDs, but from liveacts |
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The same thing can be said about P2P networks.
Infact I would say that no DJ can give close to the amount of exposure as many mp3 release groups can.
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| why would you want to think of it as illegal .. probably they are mixing with original music |
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Buying a copy of a CD is like buying a license for personal use.
Someone in the mp3 release group have been doing that as well, but they are breaching that license when they spread copies to the public.
Just like the DJ when he makes a mix available for download.
What you need to get is a license to perform the music in public for streaming, and a license to duplicate for downloads.
I would say the main difference is the amount of people the mp3 release groups reach out to.
Of course that it's not full tracks change the situation a bit, but I would think also saikosounds need permit to post snippets online.
A downloadable DJ mix is obviously more accessible and listenable than just some streamed snippets.
Personally I think the restrictive licensing is out of place in the trance scene and that posting mixes as well as playing music at parties should allowed.
I think most people running a label have been involved in the scene enough to know that a lot of the parties is not the type of events that pay license fees. There is hardly no airplay to get the music out to people with and setting up a legal webradio becomes way to costly if the labels actually are signed up with the royalty organisations.
So the restrictive licensing is just there and the label owners don't have the financial capability and/or interest to enforce it and people don't care about them.
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Krell
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Dec 6, 2005 21:09
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Quote:
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On 2005-12-06 17:44, Spindrift wrote:
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| The artists featured in a mix set get promotion by being featured there - Artists do not get their income from selling CDs, but from liveacts |
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The same thing can be said about P2P networks.
Infact I would say that no DJ can give close to the amount of exposure as many mp3 release groups can. |
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No, I dont think any DJ will be able to reach the same amount of people that P2P networks do either.
I do however think that the decision making crowd (booking agents, labels & other djs) will pay more notice to DJ set tracklists than to all the stuff that is available through p2p networks.
I actually very much doubt that anyone has the time to listen thru it all - So, like I said - DJs take out the garbage so people can focus on the goodies.
Its not enough to download music, you have to listen to it as well.
In those respects, DJs are modern day musical spam filters for some people.
Best Wishes
Krell
Label DJ>
www.jesterrecords.ca |
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Krell
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
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Posted : Dec 7, 2005 02:05
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@NoKeyAah
So, do you think online DJ mixes have a negative or positive effect on the artists & labels featured in the sets ? Nevermind how the DJ got the music, just relate to the effects of the set itself.
I mean regarding building up their names, getting bookings, getting known etc.
If DJ D-Nox or Talamasca puts a DJ set online is it good publicity for the artists + labels in the set ?
And what if lets say I put a DJ set online and get praise for the track selection + overall quality, is it not in some respects a "badge of quality" which is being put on the music selected (maybe not for you personally, but for some people?).
I know for a fact that people who listen to downloadable DJ mixes actually want to go out and buy some of the stuff they hear - or they will want to experience it live at parties.
Also consider that creating a decent DJ set is a lot of work, and for most who put their sets online they get NOTHING financially out of them, not even bookings. All they get is a bit of feedback and acknowledgement for their mixing abilities and the flow of the set + perhaps encouragement to keep improving as DJs.
Simple self promotion and marketing.... *shakes his head* - There is really more to it than that for most of us.
So - The overall effect of the sets are negative to you or positive ?
Best Wishes
Krell
Label DJ>
www.jesterrecords.ca |
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Rain
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
15
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107
Posted : Dec 7, 2005 11:15
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my answer is no...
mostly in a mix you use one track from one artist and mostly is one of it's best
so I see it as promoting...
If somebody loves the track in the mix the change he/she will buy the full cd will be higher comparing he/she never heard the mix... |
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KakoOlalaJwal
IsraTrance Full Member
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116
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Posted : Dec 7, 2005 11:52
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Yes i'm with Krell and Rain..
We could read here arguments like self-promotion, marketing, comparisons with mp3 release groups, and so on...
I mean, ehm.. could we take it a bit more easy, people ?
Don't you think there is also a notion of "pleasure" behind online mixes ? A guy linking tracks he likes together, and eventually some people will like them too, and the way he linked them.. and everybody's happy !
Of course there are some problems, and abuses nowadays, but is that a reason to focus only on these aspects ?? I think dealing only with them just make them grow.. And everything is not that black..
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"Get your dose of BoOgie !"
http://www.bunkum-records.com
http://www.myspace.com/zekakoo |
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